Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday August 23, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Subaru Models > Impreza Forum

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-08-2013, 02:53 AM   #1
stevehnm
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 329526
Join Date: Aug 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Ground Control
Vehicle:
2013 Impreza Spt cvt
Silver

Default Impreza CVT MPG Problem

Other than the fuel economy, this is a great car. However, there has been much discussion in other threads about the fact the CVT does not get the advertised MPG, backed up by this observation:

The fact that Consumer Reports has tested several vehicles that get the same highway mpg, yet are rated consistently lower. Very consistently. The sedan (at CR's 35 mpg) is particularly woeful, as the other cars are rated at 30 +/- 2 MPG EPA highway, yet still get the same mpg in real world testing, with a tight spread. The actual numbers are a mean of 29.9 MPG with a standard deviation of 1.311, meaning the 36 mpg EPA highway rating by Subaru is so far out in left field that it is 4.63 standard deviations away from the crowd. This means that if there were a half million cars in this same spread, the Subaru Impreza would have a better than 50/50 chance of being the worst.

So, the question is, how can Subaru improve the fuel economy of the Impreza? In the 200,000 miles I plan(ned?) to keep the car it will cost me an extra $5,000 extra dollars for fuel, since the real world EPA highway MPG should be 30 MPG.

I got the information here:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...erformance.htm

and the actual data is this:

Subaru Impreza sedan Premium 4-cyl CVT___ 36

Acura TL Base V6 ______________________29
Acura TSX 4-cyl ________________________30
Audi A4 sedan Premium 4-cyl______________29
Ford Mustang coupe Premium V6 MT________29
Dodge Avenger Mainstreet 4-cyl___________31
Lexus ES 350 V6_______________________31
Mazda MX-5 Miata Grand Touring 4-cyl MT___28
Nissan Altima 3.5 SL V6 CVT______________31
Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium 4-cyl CVT______32
Volkswagen CC Sport 4-cyl_______________31
Volvo C30 T5 1.0 5-cyl MT ________________28
Volvo S60 T5 5-cyl______________________30

Last edited by stevehnm; 03-09-2013 at 07:28 AM.
stevehnm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 03:01 AM   #2
ans2k
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 315631
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bryant, AR
Vehicle:
2012 Impreza Sport

Default

man, i should have gotten the outback. same real world mpg, and more space and ground clearance. oh well
ans2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 08:53 AM   #3
foghelmut
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 328414
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: South Jersey
Vehicle:
2012 Impreza SP 5MT
obsidian pearl black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ans2k View Post
man, i should have gotten the outback. same real world mpg, and more space and ground clearance. oh well
My friend has an 2012 Outback, and I get 6-8 mpg better than him consistently. vv
foghelmut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 11:43 AM   #4
79letour
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 302570
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: dear old dixie
Vehicle:
2013 XV
DGM!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ans2k View Post
man, i should have gotten the outback. same real world mpg, and more space and ground clearance. oh well
I've had two 2012 Outbacks as loaners anf they absolutely did as well as my Impreza on mpg's. I also had a cvt impreza loaner. Hated the cvt, but it did a little better on mpg's than my 5mt.
MPG's are one aspect of the subaru I'm very pleased with. But I live like 25 miles from Disney World, so I dont have snow, mountains, or snowy mountains to kill mpgs.
Even on the gently rolling hills here, the mileage goes way down with any amount of incline.
Here in Fl, the real mpg killer is the A/C. It decreases mpg's dramatically. I did expect some decrease in efficiency but not 5+ mpg loss!
79letour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 08:53 PM   #5
BigFatHorse
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 328167
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Utah
Vehicle:
2012 Impreza MT PZEV
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 79letour View Post
I've had two 2012 Outbacks as loaners anf they absolutely did as well as my Impreza on mpg's. I also had a cvt impreza loaner. Hated the cvt, but it did a little better on mpg's than my 5mt.
MPG's are one aspect of the subaru I'm very pleased with. But I live like 25 miles from Disney World, so I dont have snow, mountains, or snowy mountains to kill mpgs.
Even on the gently rolling hills here, the mileage goes way down with any amount of incline.
Here in Fl, the real mpg killer is the A/C. It decreases mpg's dramatically. I did expect some decrease in efficiency but not 5+ mpg loss!
Average mpg for 2012/2013 Impreza (both transmissions) on fuelly is 27.4mpg.
Average mpg for 2012/2013 Outback 2.5 (both transmissions) on fuelly is 24.29mpg.
BigFatHorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 12:39 PM   #6
subiTWO
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 273054
Join Date: Feb 2011
Vehicle:
2012 Impreza CVT HB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ans2k View Post
man, i should have gotten the outback. same real world mpg, and more space and ground clearance. oh well

Wrong! My '12 Imp consistently gets 5+ mpg better than our '12 OB, year-round. Both with CVT, both driven by intelligent adults who know how to maximize mpg.
subiTWO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 01:54 PM   #7
stevehnm
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 329526
Join Date: Aug 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Ground Control
Vehicle:
2013 Impreza Spt cvt
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by subiTWO View Post
Wrong! My '12 Imp consistently gets 5+ mpg better than our '12 OB, year-round. Both with CVT, both driven by intelligent adults who know how to maximize mpg.
This is where variability comes in. CR rates the Outback at 32, the Impreza at 35. If you get "5+" with your Impreza (assuming you randomly switch back and forth with your other in driving), the odds are just about as good they would get the same in someone else's hands - and the Outback has definite advantages over the Impreza. (So not necessarily "wrong")
stevehnm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 08:20 PM   #8
subiTWO
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 273054
Join Date: Feb 2011
Vehicle:
2012 Impreza CVT HB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehnm View Post
This is where variability comes in. CR rates the Outback at 32, the Impreza at 35. If you get "5+" with your Impreza (assuming you randomly switch back and forth with your other in driving), the odds are just about as good they would get the same in someone else's hands - and the Outback has definite advantages over the Impreza. (So not necessarily "wrong")

No, it's WRONG. The OB is MUCH heavier, has MUCH more air resistance, and has a more inefficient and larger engine. Under identical driving conditions, it HAS to get worse mileage. The only way this could change, is if you have an Imp that's defective.
subiTWO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 06:46 AM   #9
Zeeper
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 299286
Join Date: Oct 2011
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Albany NY
Vehicle:
2012 Sport 5MT
Green/Silver

Default

When you can't get people to pay attention to you on one forum, start another one with the same lame spreadsheets.

Isn't Consumer Reports continuing to recommend the car, for the second year in a row, even though they have a CVT long term tester of their own to drive? The answers are yes, and yes.
Zeeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 07:31 AM   #10
stevehnm
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 329526
Join Date: Aug 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Ground Control
Vehicle:
2013 Impreza Spt cvt
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
When you can't get people to pay attention to you on one forum, start another one with the same lame spreadsheets.

Isn't Consumer Reports continuing to recommend the car, for the second year in a row, even though they have a CVT long term tester of their own to drive? The answers are yes, and yes.
The big problem on the other thread, and why this one was started, was hecklers from the peanut gallery who have the 5MT as opposed to the CVT and don't get basic math, yet through some mental quirk feel they are qualified to discuss the CVT.
stevehnm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 11:37 AM   #11
79letour
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 302570
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: dear old dixie
Vehicle:
2013 XV
DGM!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
When you can't get people to pay attention to you on one forum, start another one with the same lame spreadsheets.

Isn't Consumer Reports continuing to recommend the car, for the second year in a row, even though they have a CVT long term tester of their own to drive? The answers are yes, and yes.
Yep. And adding oil to it doesnt seem to bother them.
79letour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 08:54 AM   #12
aeoporta
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 334126
Join Date: Oct 2012
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: New York
Vehicle:
2013 5mt Sp Premium
Venetian Red & Dark Gray

Default

question doesn't the majority of those cars use premium fuel, are you adjusting your figures for that added expense?
aeoporta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 11:15 AM   #13
Zeeper
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 299286
Join Date: Oct 2011
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Albany NY
Vehicle:
2012 Sport 5MT
Green/Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeoporta View Post
question doesn't the majority of those cars use premium fuel, are you adjusting your figures for that added expense?
Don't confuse his 'dollar savings' math with facts, he is trying to make a point.
Zeeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 02:07 PM   #14
stevehnm
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 329526
Join Date: Aug 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Ground Control
Vehicle:
2013 Impreza Spt cvt
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeoporta View Post
question doesn't the majority of those cars use premium fuel, are you adjusting your figures for that added expense?
Well, if they use premium in one test they use it in the other. The issue is the inflated EPA highway mpg of the CVT Impreza compared to all the others, who are tightly grouped. Strictly a mpg issue. If some do use premium it doesn't seem to matter. All the others are EPA highway rated 30 +/- 2 mpg.

Is it that the CVT Impreza was or is tuned specifically for Subaru's EPA test, without hills etc., or what is the reason it does so poorly compared to the EPA estimate?
stevehnm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 03:50 PM   #15
aeoporta
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 334126
Join Date: Oct 2012
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: New York
Vehicle:
2013 5mt Sp Premium
Venetian Red & Dark Gray

Default

The figure presented of 5000 is not valid in comparison to the vehicles named

Your hypothesis was that poor epa numbers equates to more money out of pocket
If the impreza does not get its epa number then it cost more to fill her up
however the vehicles you have chosen to compare the impreza use premium fuel

now if an impreza gets you 30 mpg and cost you 5k
what does a car that gets you 30mpg cost you in terms of fillups taking
into account that premium fuel is always 30 to 50cent more at the least
when compared to regular 87


Regular Fuel
Dodge Avenger FWD
Nissan Altima FWD
Subaru Legacy AWD
volvo s60 AWD
Ford Mustang Regular Fuel
volvo c30 FWD Regular Fuel



Based on the car listed the impreza should only be compared to awd vehicles with
regular fuel in which case thats the legacy and volvo s60
aeoporta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 04:01 PM   #16
jd_24
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 318301
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Minnesota
Vehicle:
2012 CVT Sport Prem
Ice Silver Metalic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeoporta View Post
Based on the car listed the impreza should only be compared to awd vehicles with
regular fuel in which case thats the legacy and volvo s60

I don't think the AWD has to be part of it. MPG rating is MPG rating.
However I agree, premium does play into it. If both cars get 30mpg and one requires premium, that extra cost equates to more cost just as less mpg would.

Similar like cars should be compared. All similar size, price and engine size.

Dodge Dart
Mazda 3 skyactive
Ford Focus
Chevy Cruze
jd_24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 05:43 PM   #17
stevehnm
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 329526
Join Date: Aug 2012
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Ground Control
Vehicle:
2013 Impreza Spt cvt
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeoporta View Post
The figure presented of 5000 is not valid in comparison to the vehicles named

Your hypothesis was that poor epa numbers equates to more money out of pocket
If the impreza does not get its epa number then it cost more to fill her up
however the vehicles you have chosen to compare the impreza use premium fuel
Your interpretation of the calculations (not a hypothesis), is mistaken. The calculations refer to the fact that the Impreza really gets mpg's of the other vehicles listed, and their EPA highway figure is consistently 30. Therefore the actual EPA figure should be 30, not 36. The $5,000+ refers to the additional money spent on the Impreza at the realistic 30 mpg compared to the claimed 36 mpg. It has nothing to do with the other vehicles use of premium. It is simply the extra gasoline used by the Impreza based on real world calculations.

Also, AWD is in the calculations. It doesn't matter, just like it doesn't matter if it's a automatic, CVT, or manual. The EPA tests take all that into consideration. The manual versions of cars get different mpg's from the automatics, just like the 2WD versions get different mpg's from the AWD's.

Last edited by stevehnm; 03-08-2013 at 05:49 PM.
stevehnm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 03:52 PM   #18
jd_24
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 318301
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Minnesota
Vehicle:
2012 CVT Sport Prem
Ice Silver Metalic

Default

Some cars require premium gas. So its an added cost. That's your concern isn't it? If gas was $1/gallon mpg wouldn't matter.

How about the up-front cost. Just a hunch, but I'd bet the Audi, Acura, Mustang, Lexus, and Volvos will cost $5000 or more up front.

If you're so concerned about 4mpg or whatever why didn't you get a Prius?
jd_24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 04:10 PM   #19
aeoporta
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 334126
Join Date: Oct 2012
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: New York
Vehicle:
2013 5mt Sp Premium
Venetian Red & Dark Gray

Default

if you are eliminating awd from the formula then you should also not compare mtl cars to autos since cvt is in the auto category, cars should be 100% auto

AWD plays a big part no matter how you want to phrase it, awd cars weight more than fwd so a civic is lighter than an impreza and gets a better mpg. The only fair comparison is still awd with regular fuel otherwise the comparisons are just wishful thinking
aeoporta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 06:14 PM   #20
aeoporta
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 334126
Join Date: Oct 2012
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: New York
Vehicle:
2013 5mt Sp Premium
Venetian Red & Dark Gray

Default

Still not a good baseline I would say a comparison with other awd vehicles would give consumers a better idea of how good or bad the impreza is. With that data then the consumer could make an informed decision
aeoporta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 09:34 PM   #21
vwgti123
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 335945
Join Date: Oct 2012
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: West Islip NY
Vehicle:
2013 Sport Limited
Satin White Pearl

Default

I just want to say that My CVT SWP spt limited has provided me with less than 27 MPG hand calc since new, sometimes less than 25mpg. I have over 5k on the car now. I have done everything in my power and cannot reach 30mpg per tank, which as you can expect leads to a pretty boring driving experience, to be honest damn depressing.

Lets just think about this... doing exact same commute over several years -97 buick skylark v6 could consistently achieve 26mpg - - 2010 VW GTI 6spd -200hp and not so boring driving experience - - could consistently achieve above 30 MPG - - I dont think I am wrong to to assume that I would be able to achieve approx 30mpg + from this car. But do not. Why???? Is it possible the advertised achievable MPG's for the CVT are inflated?

I have read and read and read.... so many reasons why I should just accept this due to reasons as AWD, at least it doesn't break down, I love my car so I am ok with it, yeh but if it snows I can get places, my old car had horrible MPG's so... and so on.

So IMO yes, there is a serious problem with the Advertised MPG claims for the CVT by Subaru. IMO the CVT when driven in real world situations, as many buyers purchased the car for, was drastically false advertised and will leave MANY buyers with a feeling of being taken, lied to, and frankly wripped off. Many buyers moved on from other cars based upon advertised MPG's which they felt were obtainable only to find they are not. That is what I am living with. Not a bad car, drives nice, has some rattles, but consumers dont like to be made a fool of, which IMO the CVT advertised MPG's does. Before all the rebuttles come flying in again. This is about the CVT, I cannot and won't comment on M/T, would be ignorant for me to do so.

My biggest problem is, Every car I have ever owned/currently own I can/have always been able to achieve and beat the MPG claims. There are reasons out of my control why I cannot with this car. They are called false advertising. I have file opened with SOA and time will tell if anything transpires. Based upon what I have read on this forum, there are more buyers who feel similar to me. If you do, please do what I did and call SOA and tell them you want a file opened and lets do something about this.
vwgti123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 09:50 PM   #22
aeoporta
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 334126
Join Date: Oct 2012
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: New York
Vehicle:
2013 5mt Sp Premium
Venetian Red & Dark Gray

Default

Not a bad idea having a file open at the very least you might be able to push for a reprogramming of cvt computer. If all the dissatisfied cvt drivers did this soa might act a bit faster in implementation of updated software
aeoporta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 10:12 PM   #23
2012ISport
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 325924
Join Date: Jul 2012
Default

I would like to file a complaint. Does anyone know the phone number for SOA?
2012ISport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 10:18 PM   #24
vwgti123
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 335945
Join Date: Oct 2012
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: West Islip NY
Vehicle:
2013 Sport Limited
Satin White Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012ISport View Post
I would like to file a complaint. Does anyone know the phone number for SOA?
Subaru of America, INC.
Subaru Plaza
PO Box 6000
Cherry Hill, NJ 08034

1-800-SUBARU3 1-800-782-2783

Wolverines!!

Last edited by vwgti123; 03-08-2013 at 10:24 PM.
vwgti123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 12:26 PM   #25
auskip07
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 315643
Join Date: Apr 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Atlanta Ga
Vehicle:
2012 Impreza Sedan
DGM 5mt

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vwgti123 View Post
Subaru of America, INC.
Subaru Plaza
PO Box 6000
Cherry Hill, NJ 08034

1-800-SUBARU3 1-800-782-2783

Wolverines!!


Thanks Im going to call and tell them just how impressed i am with the car and its price then offer up a few suggestions on where to improve the vehicle
auskip07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.