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Old 10-12-2013, 01:20 PM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Toyota plotting 86 sedan



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It’s no exaggeration to say the 86, Australia’s top-selling sports car, has single-handedly succeeded in injecting some sparkle into Toyota’s lacklustre line-up.

And, according to a source close to Toyota, there’s plenty more where that came from.

That’s right folks, the 86 family is about to grow -- and in a big way. When the 86 landed in showrooms last year, we were told of other iterations including a soft-top, a sedan and a shooting brake (sports wagon). Chief engineer Tetsuya Tada even mentioned as much in his blog.

Well, although the 86 convertible concept has apparently stalled, our insider now tells us the green light has been given for an 86-based sedan.
The soft-top 86 roadster concept was unveiled at the Geneva motor show in March, but there is still no word from Toyota -- or our insider, for that matter -- as to when we might see that car on the road.

What we can tell you is that an 86-based sedan, similar to the one rendered here by Japan’s Holiday Auto magazine, is on the way and may even beat the soft-top into showrooms.

According to our source, the new sports sedan will target 40-something buyers who honed their driving skills in cars like the rear-wheel drive Corolla AE86, Nissan Silvia (180SX and 200SX), Mazda RX-8 or Honda S2000.

Employing a wheelbase that’s 100mm longer than that of the current 86, the new sedan will feature what Toyota calls a “keen-look” grille design that appears to replicate the shape of a Japanese ‘katana’ Samurai sword.
In addition to the base model’s Subaru-sourced 147kW 2.0-litre boxer powertrain, the as-yet-unnamed 86 sedan will also offer a next-generation hybrid system.

Strategically differentiated from the Toyota’s current Hybrid Synergy Drive system, the new ‘Hybrid R’ sports hybrid system will incorporate a one-motor parallel drive set-up that generates up to 200kW while achieving 10-15 per cent better fuel economy.

While Hybrid R details are still sketchy, our insider suggests the new system – as revealed in the 300kW Yaris Hybrid-R concept at Frankfurt -- will employ F1-style KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery System) technology that can recover the car’s kinetic energy under braking.

While we will not see this concept at next month’s Tokyo motor show, we hear strong rumours that it will make an appearance at next year’s Geneva show.

Expect to see Toyota’s all-new rear-drive compact sports sedan hit showrooms from late 2015 through to early 2016, priced not far from the sub-$30K 86.

Unfortunately, our sources tell us we won’t get a look at the jointly developed Toyota-BMW sports car at the Tokyo show either, with the Geneva show in March 2014 now looking more likely.

Illustration: Holiday auto magazine
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Old 10-12-2013, 03:37 PM   #2
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well that's... a rather sad looking drawing.
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Old 10-12-2013, 05:52 PM   #3
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Wow, the similarity to the B11S is ...

Similar! And now that I look at the BRZ and B11S... I think we got a smaller B11S in the BRZ. Make the B11S!!!!

--kC

Last edited by KC; 10-15-2013 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 10-12-2013, 06:57 PM   #4
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hot linking no bueno
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Old 10-12-2013, 07:28 PM   #5
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Because it worked so well with the older skyline and Integra.

Cars that are born coups never sell well as four doors.
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Old 10-12-2013, 09:17 PM   #6
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Because it worked so well with the older skyline and Integra.

Cars that are born coups never sell well as four doors.
In general, I agree, but there are no non-luxury, RWD, light weight sedans available in the US. Not a single one. If they can avoid the luxury price tag, keep the weight down, and keep it fun, they could surely move 15k or 20k units a year. It is literally a 100% untapped niche. (maybe for good reason...)

I have the money for an FR-S/BRZ. We put 20k miles a year on the Prius. We put 3k miles on the 4Runner and 1500 miles on the MINI. I simply cannot justify tying up $15k to upgrade from the MINI to an FR-S. I could, though, swap the Prius for an FR-S/BRZ based sedan. I'd have to put more miles on the 4Runner for when we need a bigger vehicle, but most of the time, the sedan would suffice.
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Old 10-13-2013, 12:10 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by KC View Post
Wow, the similarity to the B11S is ...


Similar! And now that I look at the BRZ and B11S... I think we got a smaller B11S in the BRZ. Make the B11S!!!!

--kC

With a MUCH better, non-Alfa front end. Loved every aspect of the B-11S except that nose. ugh
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Old 10-13-2013, 04:48 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by blubaru703 View Post
Because it worked so well with the older skyline and Integra.

Cars that are born coups never sell well as four doors.
Wut. The Skyline was always available in sedan and coupe. It started life as a family car. Heck, there was even a station wagon until the R32. The GT-R was just a tarted up sports car version, kind of like an STi to an Impreza or an Evo to a Lancer.

Even the Integra always had a sedan or a 5-door until the RSX/DC5.
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Old 10-13-2013, 04:27 AM   #9
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^Of all the propeller noses, the B11S was my favorite iteration (though the B9 Scrambler was my favorite overall concept).
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Old 10-13-2013, 01:33 PM   #10
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The US had two door Impreza RS only for 2 MY and then introduced the 4 door. 4 door sold well enough. Next gen Impreza didn't even have a 2 door option. Why wouldn't this?
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Old 10-13-2013, 03:36 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
The US had two door Impreza RS only for 2 MY and then introduced the 4 door. 4 door sold well enough. Next gen Impreza didn't even have a 2 door option. Why wouldn't this?
What are you smokin?
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Old 10-13-2013, 10:02 PM   #12
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98-99 RS were 2 door only. 00 4 door RS came out along with the 2 door. What are you smokin?
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Old 10-13-2013, 10:05 PM   #13
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Subaru owners are weird. They don't count.
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Old 10-13-2013, 10:23 PM   #14
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Because performance sedans that aren't fast sell so well...
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Old 10-13-2013, 10:23 PM   #15
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And a Scion Subaru is not weird? Who's counting?
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:06 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
98-99 RS were 2 door only. 00 4 door RS came out along with the 2 door. What are you smokin?

Something pretty good. I completely missed that you were specifically talking about the RS. I though you were talking Impreza in general.
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:07 PM   #17
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And a Scion Subaru is not weird? Who's counting?
No weirder than a Saab-Subaru
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:05 AM   #18
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No weirder than a Saab-Subaru
I'd say it's substantially weirder. Saab and Scion represent pretty much opposite ends of... everything.

(except success)
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Old 10-14-2013, 06:03 PM   #19
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I'd say it's substantially weirder. Saab and Scion represent pretty much opposite ends of... everything.

(except success)
You as cold as ice!
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:13 AM   #20
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Dear Toyobaru-

Please, please bring the shooting brake version to the U.S.

Oh, and fix the weight distribution while you're at it.

Thanks-
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:53 AM   #21
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Yes, please bring the hatch/wagon since Subaru said F U to us
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Old 10-14-2013, 12:06 PM   #22
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Every time i see that idiotic marketing term (shooting brake) i want to punch the moron who resurrected it from the dead in the face a dozen times saying "no" with each repetition. The name literally has nothing to do with the cars it is being plastered on and is just a way to glorify a modern station wagon. Without anyone looking the term up I can guarantee that almost nobody even knows its origin or what it means.

Basically:
Pre WW2 station wagon used for and designed for carrying hunting equipment and hunting parties. A far cry from the hatch/lift back wagon abominations a small minority keep asking for so they can correct someone every time they refer to the car as a wagon.

Sorry for the rant.
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:56 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Lrn2Corner View Post
Every time i see that idiotic marketing term (shooting brake) i want to punch the moron who resurrected it from the dead in the face a dozen times saying "no" with each repetition. The name literally has nothing to do with the cars it is being plastered on and is just a way to glorify a modern station wagon. Without anyone looking the term up I can guarantee that almost nobody even knows its origin or what it means. Basically: Pre WW2 station wagon used for and designed for carrying hunting equipment and hunting parties. A far cry from the hatch/lift back wagon abominations a small minority keep asking for so they can correct someone every time they refer to the car as a wagon. Sorry for the rant.
its a 2 door coupe with a horizontal roof all the way to the rear...

The reason mercedes uses it on the cls wagon is due to their marketing of the cls as a "4 door coupe."


But these are all relative semantics, aren't they? There are no legal identifiers for "coupe" or "sedan" in most countries, merely, "2 door" and "4 door."
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:51 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lrn2Corner View Post
Every time i see that idiotic marketing term (shooting brake) i want to punch the moron who resurrected it from the dead in the face a dozen times saying "no" with each repetition. The name literally has nothing to do with the cars it is being plastered on and is just a way to glorify a modern station wagon. Without anyone looking the term up I can guarantee that almost nobody even knows its origin or what it means.

Basically:
Pre WW2 station wagon used for and designed for carrying hunting equipment and hunting parties. A far cry from the hatch/lift back wagon abominations a small minority keep asking for so they can correct someone every time they refer to the car as a wagon.

Sorry for the rant.
SHOOTING BRAKE!
SHOOTING BRAKE!
SHOOTING BRAKE!

Ooh, check this one out:

SHOOTING BREAK!!!

Bring it!

I'm just messing with you. I have that reaction to things too, but not with "shooting brake". As for the rendering, I don't like it, but I appreciate it's place in the market. But I'd love to see a realistic rendering of the wagon! Hopefully with these other variants, they have more of a reason to develop a more powerful engine under the (shared) hood. Eventually working it's way to the FRS/BRZ!
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:08 PM   #25
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Not great, far from terrible. Has a little Tesla to the profile.
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