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Old 06-05-2001, 05:08 PM   #1
nick dickitt
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4532
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Phoenix,AZ
Post Club reading - Please Read

http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/Foru...ML/000988.html

What do you think? Please give input..
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Old 06-05-2001, 06:11 PM   #2
Red-Impreza
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Exclamation

Oh, you know I've got something to say.
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Old 06-05-2001, 06:30 PM   #3
kastle
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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1999 Outback Sport
Steel Blue Mica

Post

Is it more psychobabble?
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Old 06-05-2001, 06:53 PM   #4
nick dickitt
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Post

Well don't hold back, lets hear it.
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Old 06-05-2001, 09:21 PM   #5
Red-Impreza
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Lightbulb

Patients Grasshopper.

I'm going to post the mission and objectives here for open discussion. I'm also referencing them from the SSC thread.

Mission

The mission of AzScooby.com is to further the awareness and appreciation of Subaru branded automobiles, to provide for the fellowship of its members, and to enhance their pride of ownership and driving enjoyment.

This mission statement, while being fairly brief and abstract, immediately implys the following objectives.

Objectives:

Fellowship

This covers activities such as BBQs, picnics, and general get togethers to just shoot the bull and make friends. Subaru related, but generally just a chance to get together with people of similar interests and inclinations. This is the real reason clubs exist in general, but it cannot be the only goal or there is no real need for a club.

Subaru Awareness & Appreciation

We're all Subaru enthusiasts and we'd all like to see the brand get the respect it deserves, especially in Arizona. So, this category of goals and activities includes things like dealer events, cooperative ventures with associated aftermarket companies, making a showing at car shows and media events, and providing information about Subarus and modifications to owners (member and non-member), and ride & drive/demo/or test drive days hosted by dealers, SOA, or just members.

Pride of Ownership

This category covers maintenance and modification, activities to further the aftermarket and crosses over into car shows or activities to improve the performance, appearance, and reliability of our Subaru automobiles. Events in support of this would include industry hosted gatherings (SOA, dealer, and aftermarket), open shop days for members to do work on their cars, all most all of what ScoobyMods.com covers, and even just gatherings to work on a member's car.

Driving Enjoyment

This category covers most the sport driving that many of us do: autocross, rallycross, drag racing, track days, etc. It can also include fun-runs, camping outings and off-road park trips, TSD rallies, etc. It can include any activities or associations that make driving our cars safer and more enjoyable. Association with the SCCA, AAA, or discounts at local oil-change shops.

I would also like to hear concerns (agreements and disagreements) from those who've been very quiet. If there's something you'd like to see (or not see), now's the best time to get it out into the open. Alternately, PM me and I'll bring it up without revealing who had the concern.

What do you want AzScooby to be?

-Bud
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Old 06-06-2001, 05:28 AM   #6
Bill.B
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Post

adding my $.005 (hey it's a long time to payday) I would like to see a set monthly meeting, in a set place at a set time. Maybe have 2 or 3 set places and publish a schedule like 6 months in advance. Some of the yurrupeans have weekly meetings, but they like cars much more than us mericans...
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Old 06-06-2001, 07:41 AM   #7
Red-Impreza
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Question

All right, let's discuss the issue of meetings first.

We've had a suggestion for monthly meetings and we've had a suggestion for mandatory attendance. I'll yell ya' right now, I can't do both. I was going to suggest a minimal number of official "club business" meetings where board members and other concerned members could gather to make club decisions. Then, have events as frequently as we like. That way, members can attend the events that they are interested in and people with concerns can attend the meetings.

That's not to say that I think monthly meetings are a bad idea. But I can't do it if you're going to boot me out if I miss 3 meetings in a year. On the other hand, a gathering down at the local pizza parlor or pub on the 3rd Friday of every month where we can get together, BS, drink beer (or soda as you prefer), and discuss what we'd like to do next sounds like a good idea. As long as we're not too strict on attendance.

Comments?

-Bud
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Old 06-06-2001, 07:53 AM   #8
nick dickitt
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Post

I believe the idea being mandatory mettings is to get interaction between the members. If people do not show up, why have a club that is trying to follow their mission:

<center>The mission of AzScooby.com is to further the awareness and appreciation of Subaru branded automobiles, to provide for the fellowship of its members, and to enhance their pride of ownership and driving enjoyment.</center>

Yes we would like to see everyone, every month but we all realize people are busy and this is tough to do. We are talking about

<center>1. It is required that all members attend the annual January meeting(this is when we be voting on new council members ), and it is strongly suggested that all members attend the Prescott Forest Rally in October, and West Coast Meet in November.
2. Attendance of at least 25% of all meetings/events is mandatory. </center>

We are not talking about every weekend of every month.

As we are just getting organized any thing is available for discusion and changes can and will be made to suit the clubs best intrest.

I personally feel that the meetings are more necessary now as we move forward to create a club.
[This message has been edited by nick dickitt (edited June 06, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by nick dickitt (edited June 06, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by nick dickitt (edited June 06, 2001).]
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Old 06-06-2001, 08:12 AM   #9
kastle
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Post

Excellent points nick, good job.
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Old 06-06-2001, 08:58 AM   #10
Bill.B
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ok... since I opened this part of the can, I'll expound on my ideas of a motoring club, specifically hitting on the meetings part...

I would propose different kinds of meetings.

Monthly meeting: This would be at a set day (EX: third Friday) at a set time (EX: 1900hrs) at certain spots around the valley (EX: next 3 meetings at X bar and grill in Tempe, 3 meetings after that are at Y bar and grill in N. Scottsdale). These monthly meeting should be a BS session, better described by Red above.

Get togethers: Such as the recent BBQ, trade shows, non participating events. These are more of the BS kinda thing, just in a different setting.

Important showings: This would be dealer meetings. Large GTG's with other clubs. Anything where a show of numbers is important to furthering the club. Club carwashes for a local charity, club community service days, etc... (this type of meeting would be STRONGLY suggested for attendance)

Other events: competing race events (autocross, drags, rallycross), club awareness days, whatever else....


Make the club a dues based club, and not make meetings mandatory. If you don't show up, don't bitch about the way the club is. If you'll pay the dues, you'll probably want to be involved. I do like the idea of 1 or 2 mandatory voting meetings though.


edit--
ANY meeting has the potential to have impact on future events. Just because the monthly meeting is a BS session does not mean that club business won't be discussed, and changes made. The mandatory voting meetings are for club leadership votes only, the steering of the club is done by the leaders, with input potential at every known APPROVED, SCHEDULED meeting. I also see a possibility of a weighted voting scale for small club issues. The more meeting you attend the more votes you have to cast. Everything goes to zero Jan 1.

[This message has been edited by Bill.B (edited June 06, 2001).]
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Old 06-06-2001, 09:25 AM   #11
nick dickitt
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Post

We need a membership list. Then lets meet to formalize the procedings of AZ Scooby, The Club.
So far I show on the interested list:
Kastle
Aaron AKA AaronB
Christine
Dan #1 AKA Dannyatwork
Bud AKA red imp
Geren AKA Gdog
Bill AKA Bill.B
David AKA Firestarter
Dan #2 AKA Nick Dickitt
Can anyone add someone I missed? Please feel free to update. Anyone here interested: http://members.i-club.com/default.cf...rModelTypeID=1
This needs to be accomplished ASAP. No sense of discussing the same things just between the 5 or 6 of us. We need to move forward, not be stationary. Need more information read here http://www.azscooby.com/club/ . That is what we have so far. Again any ideas can be expressed and documentation will be amended when necessary.

[This message has been edited by nick dickitt (edited June 06, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by nick dickitt (edited June 06, 2001).]
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Old 06-06-2001, 09:52 AM   #12
Red-Impreza
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Thumbs up

Bill,

Your experience shows. That's EXACTLY what I had in mind (with the possible exception of that points thing ).

Well said.

-Bud
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Old 06-07-2001, 12:14 AM   #13
Firestarter
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I will attend and support the club in any and every way I can, providing it is not to the detriment of my home or work life.

I prefer a values based ethic rather than a rules based one.

Don't ask me to sign anything or you can shove it.
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Old 06-07-2001, 12:46 AM   #14
Bill.B
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in reading the rules just now (I can't get there from home - earthlink doesn't like your DNS)...

speaking totally open here, they seem a little heavy handed. I don't know how much imput I should rightfully have, as I don't own a Subaru anymore, just an observation... I too want the club to succeed, but some of those rules (the meetings part) I may not be able to comply with. Example: From June to October my second home is the forests of Prescott. I am up there almost every weekend, and at least 2 days a week. I would certainly miss some meetings during that time. Being that the club is dues based, if I miss a meeting it is on me, and should not affect me giving you more money for my dues next year. The attendance thing is one reason I put in the voting points options... f people have to commit to a schedule, they may not be so inclined to join.
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Old 06-07-2001, 12:47 AM   #15
kastle
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Steel Blue Mica

Unhappy

Nice choice of words Dave.....

It's starting to become very clear that we have 2 seperate thoughts on the club. That of a formalized-meeting club and one as a "club".

--edit-- I didn't see Bill's post until now.... The earthlink issue is a router issue that Danny has been working on getting fixed....

[This message has been edited by kastle (edited June 06, 2001).]
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Old 06-06-2001, 01:26 PM   #16
Red-Impreza
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Wink

Bill,

Another home run! I want to thank you for independent and unsolicited verification of what I've been telling Aaron, Kastle, and Mr. Dickitt.

Dave,

I think we can develop both a set of values and set of objectives from the mission statement and grouping of ideas above. That is if we are all in agreement on them.

Aaron/Kastle,

Don't take this feedback as a lack of a desire to get organized. Just understand that we're going to have probably three groups of club members. A core group from which you can expect some level commitment, a larger group that is very involved and attends frequent events but is not going to commit to any sort of regimen, and a third group that we've not even discussed yet.

The third may be the largest group. Members who may never attend a meeting and may only go to 1 or 2 events in as many years, but who are willing to associate with the club, pay dues, and maybe even put a sicker on their cars or carry a membership card if it gets them a discount somewhere the regularly shop.

I believe that creating a set of membership rules that alienates any one of these groups is a detriment to the club. I also believe you'll agree if you just relax a little and think about it.

Hey, look at it this way. This is only the first issue we've discussed. I've got several more.

-Bud
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Old 06-06-2001, 02:11 PM   #17
Bill.B
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Again, all of my thoughts stem from indepth research of some of the larger (and smaller) yurrupean clubs. They all get their tires from one shop, oil changed at one shop, go fast parts from one shop (if possible), ETC. They have SERIOUS clout (read discounts), but they have a ton of members, and are not limited to certain makes (most clubs anyway). They do charity events, so much so that clubs have a mini rivalry going as to who can raise the most money for X charity. When they do charity things they ALL have their club shirts on, and 90% of the membership attend. They do social work with the youth of the area. They host driving clinics, co-driving clinics, crewing clinics, team owner clinics, sponsor clinics, etc... They get air time and press because of the things they do to give back, making their clubs stronger. They have weekly meetings at a few different pubs, and shoot the s-h-i-t-e. They have larger meetings every other month or so to go over real club biz. They pay a dues, have a membership card, shirts, hats, mailed newsletters (on real dead trees) etc. They vote on leadership, and not much else. They don't have mandatory meetings, but have SOOO many meetings that missing one due to scheduling is not possible. They have the 3 tiers of involvement mentioned, and don't really care that alot of their members only go to the Christmas mixer. They HAVE a christmas mixer, and some clubs are so big they can overun small towns. The members REGULARLY go to each others houses for dinner or tea. They all know the close by members and give a cheerfull hello when passing by. In short, they are their own small community of brothers and sisters. When one of them is in a bad way, they ALL rally round and pitch in whatever it takes to solve the situation. They have emergency funds for club members for such cases. It is a real family. Yurrupeans are WAY more fanatical about motorsports, and motorclubs than Mericans...


but it doesn't have to be that way....

I'll shut up now and see what others have to say....


edit-spelling

[This message has been edited by Bill.B (edited June 06, 2001).]
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Old 06-06-2001, 02:23 PM   #18
Firestarter
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"A real family"

That's what I'm talking about. You start a club, and I'll be there every time I can to support you. You need help moving and I'll be right there for you because you're a friend.

Ask me to sign a set of rules saying I will attend x-meetings and I should have a sticker on my car (regardless of whether I would or not) and you can have a club without me.

You can take my money, but you cannot take maaa Freeeeeeedom!!!!!

Dave
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Old 06-06-2001, 08:15 PM   #19
AZ-GT
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Post

Well I and my son (Kevin L) would be interested but I think there needs to be some more flexibility on meetings. For example Kevin has to take off work to attend the meetings so far. Whether he can afford to pay the dues of loss of wages to attend meetings might mean he would choose to be excluded from the club. Likewise there is distance to be considered. Is this a club for residents of the Valley or Arizonan's? Is your expectation that those who live outside the Valley take on the financial burden of multiple trips to the valley? I may be willing to attend a meeting in the north end of the Valley but not Gilbert (sorry Red) just because of the added distance. A meeting in Gilbert could mean a commitment of 6 or more hours with travel time. In reading the suggested constitution/rules it appears to me your creating a club for Valleyites. Maybe it should be MaricopaSuby...
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Old 06-06-2001, 08:32 PM   #20
kastle
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Steel Blue Mica

Post

Stewart --> I agree with you for the most part. We don't want this to come across as a Valley thing. We really, really want the rest of the state involved. We don't want to exclude you, Kevin, Robert or anyone else outside of the Phoenix metro area.

I understand that some meets will just be too far for you guys. I understand and agree with you on it. I wouldn't expect you guys to make a meeting in Gilbert, just as a I wouldn't expect people like Red to go upto Prescott.

All --> That is why we are interested in having meetings all over the place. So that we can accomidate everyone. We don't want meetings that are manditory. But damn, why would anyone want to pay to be in a club and never partipate. I just don't get it!?!

When we sat down and came up with this outline, we figured making the requirements 1 meeting every 3 months should not be that hard, especially if we plan them in advance and use the AZScooby.com calendar.

It's not like we aren't wanting to make this club represent the best of what everyone wants, but we are very far apart. I know and respect that everyone has different wants and needs. We tried to take that into account.

--edit--spelink

[ June 06, 2001: Message edited by: kastle ]
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Old 06-06-2001, 09:13 PM   #21
Danny5
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Exclamation

Wow, who knew that this would be such a hot topic. I'll try to address everyone's concerns here, but I am warning you that you may not like what I have to say...

Bud: I am not sure if you are actually helping the cause here. You raise lots of questions, but so far you haven't shown an understanding of what we are trying to accomplish. I'll say this now, and I'll say it a bunch more times in this post. If you want a club that doesn't organize people better, then stay a member of the AZ I-Club. I-Club doesn't ask anything of you, nor do they ask you to attend anything.

But, moving on to your more valid concerns...

1st off, I don't see us doing more than posting the mission statement. To furthur quantify the club with the objectives section is to define ourselves in too great of detail.

2. Mandatory monthly meetings/events. Perhaps you read too much from the rules, but AZScooby is trying to ensure that if you join the club, then you attend 25% of all events/meetings, which happen on a monthly basis. If you CANNOT make more than 3 meetings/events a year, then this club isn't for you.

Conclusion - I think you are over analyzing the situation here. Although you do seem to be stuck on attendance. The I-Club is here for everyone to get together, but the AZScooby club is meant to be 10 times what I-Club is to the community. I have been in show clubs for over 12 years, and their rules make AZScooby rules look weak. Well, feel free to PM me if you have more questions, but lets keep in mind that this new club will follow Kastle's and Aaron's vision, and that can't happen without some pretty decent organization.

Bill B. All I have to say is that you have contributed more to this discussion than any other single person. We are trying to create a club that has more comradre and *family* than what the I-Club can offer. We won't be a full blown European style club, but we would like to see our members be enthusiastic about belonging to this organization.

More about rules being heavy handed. AZScooby MUST protect itself, and the best way to do this is to set some pretty firm rules. We want to get the quality of individual that will take pride in belonging to AZScooby.com. The rules outline what kind of behavior we would expect. We want people to stay until the end of events because another member is racing. We want people to caravan in an orderly fashion. We want you to know that if you bring a friend, you will be responsible for their actions. If it isn't stated in the rules, then AZScooby has no recourse should an undesirable individual somehow make it into the club.

Firestarter - We cannot even consider the possibility of having members that do not agree to and sign the rules. Its pretty obvious the reasons why when you read my reply to Bill. How do we know you won't be a disruption, or start street racing on the way to an AZScooby event and kill someone? The rules are their to protect AZScooby from its members, and to set a certain amount of respect in each other. If you like the idea of becoming more involved in your community, then sign the rules. Nothing in the rules says we will put you in jail, or hold you in the club against your desire. If it isn't fun for you, then just leave. Hell, if you don't agree to the rules, then be happy in the fact that you belong to the I-Club, the largest Subaru club in the world.

AZScooby will go places and directions that these sign and join clubs won't take you. Heck, on that note, joining I-Club required you to agree to the rules, and you abide by them. AZScooby will be no different.

Stuart - I understand your dilema, and while I don't forsee you being able to join due to time restraints, your son Kevin has already met with various Arizona members more than the minimum number of required times. I can already tell you that AZScooby will be in Prescott at LEAST twice a year, once being the Prescott Forest Rally. Prescott people won't be left out of the picture, and I know Kastle feels the same way.

To Everyone - I know right now that the rules, charter, and mission statement may seem disconcerting. Its ok, nobody is forcing you to join the club. The rules are their to protect you, the individual, and the club. An organization, while made up of several individuals, must be unified in the direction it follows.

Heck, we don't even care if all you want to do is come to our events and meetings. But if you want to be part of something bigger, with the ability to influence, and shape the community, with the ability to get in on the ground floor and help furthur the cause in the Arizona area, then we would welcome you to the club. AZScooby will require more of you than I-Club. We will require more of you than SCCA, or NASA, or some other sign, pay, and join organization.

In the end, people who join the AZScooby club will be contributing more to the Subaru community at large. They will be building a friendship, and a family that they can be proud of for many years to come.

-Dan
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Old 06-06-2001, 10:16 PM   #22
AZWRX
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Post

This would sound really good if it wasn't a Phoenix only thing. I live in Tucson and there's no way I'm driving to Phoenix once a month. This would be great if there was some meetings/get togethers in Tucson every now and then. There's got to be some people interested in this that live in Tucson.
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Old 06-06-2001, 10:38 PM   #23
Bill.B
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really the only rule I have issue with is the mandatory meetings. As I pointed out, 6 months out of the year I am jam packed, and now with new predicaments today with PFR I may be busy for the next year (until April), just about every weekend. I do have a Friday free here and there, but must schedule it way in advance. If the next 3 meetings are on Saturday, I will miss them, and be put on probation.

This is all scenario stuff, but it is very possible to happen. Now, if you have weekly meetings, on different days, at different places, then it is no problemo. Same would go for people who work odd days and hours (weekends and nights). I do understand what you are trying to accomplish, and don't envy you. I gave up because of lack of interest, you have already surpassed my level of organizing a club with this conversation.

I do know that you can't please everyone all of the time. If you have 1 monthly meeting there will be problems. If you have 3 or 4 a month, I think I can swing 1 a month, but just don't know... I think that is where most of us are with it, we want to be part of something bigger, but can't commit to it, given the low number of meetings/unknown number of meetings.

What defines a meeting? What will we be doing? Where will it be? These are more things that need to be defined before people will be all cozy with saying "yeah, I can commit to 1 meeting a month".

I'm off to bed.. I may not be round tomorow, so don't take it as the silent treatment...
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Old 06-06-2001, 11:21 PM   #24
AaronB
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Post

****! I was typing for over an hour and this BB wouldn't take my post because I used to many smilies and erased it.

*grumble*
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Old 06-07-2001, 12:09 AM   #25
AaronB
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Lightbulb

[Attempt Number two of posting this novel]

Thanks for all of the replies everyone. This a good discussion and critical information for the beginning of the club is being established.

Here is my take on the matter
----------------------------

[Attendance]
Everyone is getting hung up on the word Mandatory. We tried to establish loose enough attendance rules to make it easy for everyone. Auto-X, Rally-X, Drag Racing, BBQs, etc could all be considered events. There is an Auto-X every month, we will hit the drag races a few times a year, Bill is organizing several more Rally-X.

I am hoping we would have a meeting every month in addition to the events. Meetings could be BBQ’s, Tempe Town Lake Meets, etc. Anywhere we can sit down for the 30-60 minutes it takes to discuss club business and then we can use the rest of the time for fellowship.

We have had 2 meets within the last month and quite a few of us have attended one or both of them.

I know I wouldn’t pay dues to a club and then not attend the events, meetings, etc. I don’t oppose getting rid of the word “mandatory” since some of us are having a problem with that part. I just don’t want to hear people who never show up to anything, complain about how the direction of the club.

[Location]
We should move our location frequently to try and ease the burden of attending meets/events. Auto-X is held at Firebird which is close for the Gilbert, Tempe, Mesa, etc. folk. Prescott Forest Rally would be easy to attend for the Northerners. I would like to have another meet or two in Prescott, maybe during the summer to escape the valley heat. A Tucson meet isn’t out of the question if we can get an interested group to make the drive down. BBQs could be at any park or members house, so they could be anywhere.

[Structure and Rules]
We HAVE to establish a structure if we want to build a strong club. Bill has been kind enough to give our club huge opportunity to showcase ourselves in front of the rest of AZ, and the US during the Prescott Forest Rally. If we get organized we can make the most of that opportunity, if not it will be a pathetic display.

I feel we need to have a core set of rules, or call it a code of conduct (if rules is to restrictive) for members. This is necessary to protect the club and the other members. If we don’t have rules we can’t prevent less then desirable members from giving our club a bad name through their actions, or words. I feel that before a member pays their dues, a copy of the “rules” should be given to them, if they feel they can abide by them they pay their dues. The paying of dues will be considered acceptance of the minimum code of conduct we would like to see from the members.

[Caravans]
I think caravans are really good free advertising. If people see 3 or more of the same type of car driving down the road in line, they take notice. Due to the heightened awareness of other motorists, our actions are magnified. If we are street racing, weaving in and out of traffic, etc. we will give the club a bad image in the eyes of others. We should take car to represent the club in the best possible light in these types of situations. I realize that caravans aren’t always practical due to schedule conflicts, but whenever possible we should take advantage of the free advertising they provide.

[Stickers]
I don’t think stickers are mandatory on member vehicles. I hope members have enough respect for the club and each other where they want to put some affiliation with the club in a visible location. Whether it be a sticker, license plate frame, whatever. I know that some of you aren’t into stickers, so we should try to come up with another way we can identify other club members visibly.

[Conclusion]
During the infancy of this club the work will outweigh the rewards (other than fellowship) that the club can offer. Those who get in now will need to work hard to grow the club, and establish the business, and personal relationships that will make club membership extra rewarding. Once relationships with the dealerships, SOA, and local companies have been established it will be easier to recruit members, and more relationships.

[Personal Feelings]
I consider ALL of you my friends and therefore would be willing to help you out whenever I can. I enjoy hanging out with all of you, it is nice to find people with similar interests. I don’t care if it is just a few of us drink a refreshing beverage or 10 or 15+ of us sweating our collective asses of talking Subaru.

Here is a personal story that just happened to me that shows what I would LOVE to see form all members towards other members. As I was leaving Danny’s BBQ (23:30) I noticed my car was losing oil FAST. I was leaving a trail and lost 2 quarts in less than a mile. At the BBQ Byron, Danny, Kastle, and Nick Dickett all noticed as well. Byron drove to see how far the trail went, Danny ran and grabbed some oil from his garage, while kastle was calling my cell phone. Kastle and Nick Dickett met me about a mile down the road and help me investigate, we put more oil in and determined the car would never make it home under its own power. We waited for the tow vehicle (my father’s F-150). Kastle and Nick Dickett followed me and the tow vehicle all the way with their hazards on to make sure we made it to my house ok. After arriving at my house, after 01:00 AM, they helped me push the car, find and repair the problem (the turbo return line had worked itself loose and was leaking REALLY bad). It was well after 02:00 AM when they left. This show of support and friendship really meant a lot to me. To see the others sacrifice their time to make sure Christine, myself, and the car were ok is VERY encouraging.

We CAN and WILL build something special here! We just need to understand that all of the members are working towards a common goal, and we need to sacrifice a bit of ourselves to assist the other members in their time of need and to create the “community” that other clubs enjoy. It may be difficult but I see the core people are here to get the club headed in the right direction.

Well I hope that all makes sense, as this is the second time I have written it, damn UBB.

Regards,

Aaron

[ June 07, 2001: Message edited by: AaronB ]
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