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Old 10-11-2002, 03:31 AM   #1
jjshin
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Default question about noise from clutch/tranny

I noticed this after about 20k mi. I hear rattling noise while sitting still, and when i depress the clutch the rattle noise goes away. as i let up i hear this loose metal rattling noise coming from clutch/tranny area. This noise gets worse after the car's fully warmed up. The dealer convinced me to wait until it gets worse, but i'm just not feeling comfortable especially since i already got 38k mi. after 1 yr. I'm afraid i might run out of warrenty period soon. Of course, there's also the clutch shutter when engaging between 1.5~2.5k rpm.
Any input would be appreciated...
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Old 10-13-2002, 01:32 PM   #2
Dayf
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I believe that noise is the throw-out bearring. Mine got louder too. It happened on my integra also.
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Old 10-14-2002, 01:44 PM   #3
jjshin
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thanks Dayf.
Sounds like i should go back to the dealer and have them focus on the clutch assembly. Throw out bearing is typically changed with the clutch, right? I just dont see why i have to drive a fairly new car with all these clutch probs
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Old 10-15-2002, 03:49 AM   #4
Weedy
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Location: Lincoln, NE
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2002 WRX 2.5L Hybrid
WRB

Default Warning!!!

I had a TOB go bad on my '97 Cobra. It was actually the 3rd TOB that went bad on the vehicle, the first since I had it. (I only had the car a year for this reason) Since the car had the TOB go bad, what eventually happened was the the TOB wore on the input shaft of the trans. Which means that even if you replace the clutch and TOB, when you get the new one in there the clutch fork will wobble on the input shaft since the TOB is wobbling. The only way to fix this was to have the transmission rebuilt, which I wasn't about to do with that car. Don't worry about the clutch shudder either. I personally have gotten sick of everyone complaining about the shudder. My car has it as well, although any good high performance clutch will have that fallback. As for the TOB being replaced when the clutch is replaced, yes that is a common practice. Although sometimes shops like to take shortcuts and not replace that particular piece. Even though it takes just as much work to replace a TOB as it does a clutch. Another possible problem, unlikely although possible, is that the pilot bushing has gone bad. This is actually the piece that goes inside the flywheel at the end of the input shaft, that holds the input shaft in place with the flywheel. (does that make sense? ) Anyways, I would take it to the dealer and have it checked out before you run into more severe problems than what you have now. Hopefully all works out well for you!
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Old 10-15-2002, 06:40 PM   #5
jjshin
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thanks Weedy,
it's frustrating dealing with the service people who insist that i wait since they cannot pinpoint the prob. Perhaps i was being too soft. i should've told them it's not my prob that they can't see the prob from outside (and yet they still acknowlege the noise prob.)
sometimes i feel like abusing my tranny to make sure the tranny fails before the warrenty runs out. after all, everything's been DOCUMENTED
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Old 10-15-2002, 09:22 PM   #6
Weedy
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I must admit that I know exactly what you are talking about when you say that the techs aren't willing to help. I myself am a auto tech, and I get frustrated when I hear stories about other techs that are being lazy and not doing their job properly. I just feel bad when people that have legitimate problems with their cars, and don't get serviced, refuse to buy another Subaru. It's bad techs, and dealerships that make people upset, not the mfg. in my opinion. The best thing to do in your situation I think, would be to speak with the service mgr at the dealer first, explain to him your problem, and see if you can get some action taken from there. If nothing is resolved, then call the 1-800-SUBARU3 number, untill something is done for you, and you feel you were treated right. And once again, good luck! Oh and one more thing, make sure that you keep your cool even if you get frustrated as he11!
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Old 10-16-2002, 01:01 AM   #7
jjshin
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Thumbs up

Thanks for the info.
With my Miata I had to go thru 3 mazda dealers. Eventually found excellent service advisor. I'm hoping the relationship with the Subaru dealers will be easier.

well, i'm still rev'g to 2.5k rpm to avoid shutter (how much time do i have left with this clutch?), and getting some sort of 70's Mercedes diesel engine noise coming from TOB at each stop...
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Old 10-16-2002, 03:44 AM   #8
Weedy
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WRB

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As for how much time you have on that clutch, I couldn't tell you that. With my Cobra, when we pulled out the toasted TOB, the friction plate actually looked brand new. I have heard about some people that have multiple drag runs, and are doing much more than 227 HP at the wheels even, and have not had any problems with their clutch whatsoever. Although there are some that have less than 5k on their clutch, and it's already down to the rivots on the friction disc. It all depends on how you drive your car. Whether you race it or not. Don't worry about taking the revs to a little over 2k to get rolling from a stop. What really matters is how long you ride the clutch on the way out before you let it fully engage. So far you sound like a responsible person, and one that doesn't beat the holy pud out of your car. How much longer you should wait before you really try to get something resolved? I would say go to the dealer the first chance you get. My reasoning for this would be so that you don't run into the same problem that I had with my other car. Sure they will replace the clutch assembly and TOB, although will they know to check the tolerances on the input shaft of the trans before they get it all back together? It sounds like you are kind of in a position of you're are damned if you do, or damned if you don't, ya know? I feel your pain man, and I hope that you get treated fairly wherever you go to get your baby fixed. Sorry this is so long...
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Old 10-16-2002, 04:34 AM   #9
jjshin
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nah, I probly did maybe half dozen HARD launches, and typically the clutch's out before the WOT. I have about 39k mi. so far. not bad for 1yr old Hey, good idea about checking the input shaft, etc. I'll mention that at the dealer. so far the tranny seems to work fine. i can actually downshift to 1st going 20. I just let the syncro do its magic, or quick blip with heel. btw, is it a bad idea to work the syncros like that? i mean pushing on the shifter while syncro to catch up i'm sure rev matching is better way to go, but not sure how syncros wear and overall effect on the tranny.
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Old 10-16-2002, 03:20 PM   #10
Weedy
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Well it's sort of a matter of opinion. I always double clutch and downshift, although it isn't necessary. A syncro is there to do it's job,and when they can't do it anymore, that's when they need to be fixed. As long as you properly dbcltch and downshift you might add life to the syncros, that's about it. Otherwise as long as you shift properly, and wait for the syncros and not force them, you should be ok. The best way for me to describe a syncro is like a miniature sprocket that rides along the layshaft. What happens over time is that the teeth on the syncro wear down, just like a gear after hard prolonged use. When those teeth on the syncro wear down, you will then not be able to shift into gear without grinding, whether you rev match or not. They can also be intermittent untill they are gone completely. I hope that I explained that ok? Also, for daily driving, letting the syncros do their thing is just fine. You put a lot of miles on your car in one year, if this is the only problem that you've had with it then I would be very happy with it BTW. Question for you though, when at a stop do you rest your foot on the clutch pedal, or keep the pedal depressed to the floor while waiting? Those are a couple of things that can prematurely wear on a TOB. I'm sure that you already knew that although I'm just checking.
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Old 10-17-2002, 02:42 AM   #11
jjshin
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I try to stay off the clutch as much as possible. No waiting for the light in 1st gear, no hill holding, etc.
well, compare to others with more severe prob's I'm not doing too bad. however, i'm still dissapointed that I have this issue. I've gone thru about 6 cars all with M/T and never had these problems before.
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Old 10-17-2002, 02:36 PM   #12
Weedy
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WRB

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Yeah, I must admit that I'd be a little disappointed as well. Although I don't see any reason that you would be denied a claim, especially since it appears that you don't have any mods. At least you havn't mentioned them yet... I would attempt with the dealer again, and if they don't do anything for you I would call that number I gave you. A friend of mine had some problems with a part on his WRX, he called that number and was persistent, finally they gave him a lot more than what he was asking for. Worked out better for him in the end.
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Old 10-18-2002, 01:47 PM   #13
jjshin
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mods? i got rid of the intake silencer, ITG filter, velocity stack insie the fender to stock air box...

Best mod was getting a heavier foot and realizing WRX has a high revving engine with peak output at high rpm. It's the easiest mod that I learned when I had Miata Too many people 'mod' their car and yet short shift then says they need more power...

Weedy, thanks for your help!
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Old 10-18-2002, 03:01 PM   #14
cglasel
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2002 WRX wagon
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Default TOB and shudder

My TOB started making tons of noise at about 2k miles.
The dealer replaced the TOB presure plate and flywheel (maybe clutch plate, too) with no prompting from me -- other then telling them that I didn't like the rettling sound coming from under the dash, or under the car.

I've driven VWs for hundreds or thousands of miles with no clutch or TOB trouble. I'm a little concerned....

I had been in the habit of waiting for the light in first with clutch to the floor. Never a problem in the VWs I've had. Could that have fried the TOB in 2000 miles on my WRX?

Oh yeah, AFTER the dealer put in the new clutch I'm getting a strong shuddering! Never happened with original parts, but from the first engagement of thei new clutch (backing out of the dealer lot) I got the shudders!
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Old 10-18-2002, 06:27 PM   #15
jjshin
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perhaps my dealer's reluctant since i already put 39k mi., and the fact that clutch assembly is a 'wear' item.
I've experienced some shudder with brand new parts - clutch, flywheel, on other cars. I would wait til you break-in the new parts. also, try engaging at higher rpm few times (not necessarily hard launch). that fixes the shudder for a while in my case.
nonetheless, I still get pretty bad shudders sometimes...
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Old 10-18-2002, 10:29 PM   #16
Weedy
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2002 WRX 2.5L Hybrid
WRB

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Check out the clutch shudder section...

http://www.sidc.co.uk/faq.htm#3.5

Lots of other good info there also!
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