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Old 02-19-2001, 03:41 AM   #1
ralyrcr
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Post haltec e6k vs tec II

ok, well i know i;m asking for a you know what storm by pitting vishnu agnst cobb, and loyal supporters of both against each other, however can we try and have a civilized discussion about the merits of each, and the dissadvantages as well like friendly subaru owners? i hope so. anyway i need computer help, i feel the need for more controle, and the only 2 options seem to be tec II or haltec. so i would like ot hear from anyone, specificly though those who might own one or the other.

my thoughts:
Tec II
+easier to tune
+lots of tuners with possible maps to help me out
+retains factory computer for trubble codes, other functions
-less controle than hal tec
-doesn't use factory sensors requiring trigger whell, and external mounting of sensative senor??
-retains factory computer leaving with necessity to keep unwanted stuff like egr.
have to mount stock computer underhood? is that correct??

Hal tec.
-hard to tune
-no one knows anything about it in terms of fuel ignition maps.
-requires dino time to properly tune
+uses factory sensors
+stand alone system


any other thoughts out there in E-subie land??

jon 98 rs

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Old 02-19-2001, 04:20 AM   #2
Imprezer
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I don't know much about Haltec, but here is what I know.

I think that having to keep your stock ECU is a + and not a -, therefore being standalone is not a +.

You don't need to relocate the stock ECU anywhere if you get TEC.

Using stock sensors is a -, as stock crank angle sensor doesn't have enough resolution. Plus, there are only few sensors. MAP, O2, Coolant, Crank Trigger and air temp.

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Old 02-19-2001, 06:48 AM   #3
ralyrcr
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don't you have to mount the new trigger wheel and crankl position senson in a rather vonerabl;e place, and why in not having your stock ecu a -, and keeping it a +? just cirious. do you run a tec II?

jon
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Old 02-19-2001, 08:22 AM   #4
25psi
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Guys.

TECH II is STAND ALONE ECU. End of the line!

I have it on my Z. First hand experience here.

You may have an option to keep your stock ECU to take care of little things: Like idle. That is purely so to make your own life easier cuz techII could be a big fat b!tch to tune against sertain features.

But again - You can have all stock electronics guted out and TECHII will take care of everything.

And BTW: It has soooooo many features you will not know what the hell to do with all that!

Eugene
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Old 02-19-2001, 08:40 AM   #5
8Complex

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There is another option if you're open to it - <a href="http://www.wolfems.com/Products/EMS/Wolf_3D/wolf_3d.html" target="_blank">Wold 3D EMS</a> from <a href="http://www.b-specusa.com/" target="_blank">B-Spec</a>. I think it's about $1500 for the unit, turbo timer module, and a boost control module. Plus it has a hand-held programmer (how do you get easier then that to program?). Not sure if it can be a stand-alone unit, but supposedly Byron is running it on his 400+hp Impreza.

The biggest problem I have with the TEC-II or the Wolf 3D is that you have to install them yourselves. I think I got a quote from Trey for a Haltech setup installed ant tuned with a boost controller module for $1800. This will most likely be my route by the end of summer... if I can find a laptop.
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Old 02-19-2001, 09:27 AM   #6
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8complex,

Has Trey changed his policy or are you planning a road trip over there?

Also, Wolf EMS is originally from Australia and if you can buy direct, you can save some $$$ given the current exchange rate. But you will probably want to buy from B-Spec if you need tech assistance or tuning maps.

I'm also waiting info on the Hawk programmable ecu which is new to the market and is around $600.
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Old 02-19-2001, 09:33 AM   #7
98mpreziveRS
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Possum bourne (wait..i keep forgetting myself..2.5 not an ej20 )

i would say the tec 2 does look promising, but then again the haltek does as well. I don't know what i would do..the new Hawk on the other hand..i am really interested in that one
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Old 02-19-2001, 09:55 AM   #8
8Complex

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Aspen - Road trip. I don't trust myself tuning something stright up from a base map right away anyway.
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Old 02-19-2001, 10:28 AM   #9
kelley nelson
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8, you can get a cheap used thinkpad on Ebay for $300 that will do the job just fine.
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Old 02-19-2001, 11:26 AM   #10
Jay_UK
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Hi guys,

It all depends on how much control you want.

The Tec-II can either be used standalone or with the stock ECU in place.

The Haltec is a standalone unit. There is also the Motec, Link, or even the Pectel.

Link and Motec are both bringing out new versions of their ECU's.

I believe the new Link is a generic ECU (which is meant to be on par with the Motec, but cheaper) that requires a short adaptor loom to convert from the stock ECU connectors to the Motec connector.

The Pectel units are very high end (possibly more advanced that the Motec). They require a new crank sensor and a few other mods to get them working.

It all depends on your budget and how much control/features you require.

The Tec-II is a very good system and has been proven to work very well.

J.
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Old 02-19-2001, 01:32 PM   #11
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25psi, where have you been for the past year. Vishnu's TEC II kit is a "Parallel Engine Management" system. It works together with the stock ECU. The only thing that TEC II does in that case is controlling ignition, timing and boost. The stock ECU still controls the idle, the speedo, all the emission stuff, radiator fans, ect. That is why it is a +. And, the best thing, is that if your TEC II fails for whatever reason, all you need to do is plug in your ignition wires back into the stock coil, and connect the stock injector harness and you can limp home, or, if you need to uninstall the TEC II it is as easy as to install it. If you have it as a stand alone, it will be a nightmare to install it.
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Old 02-19-2001, 01:40 PM   #12
8Complex

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Isn't there at least 1 guy using it as a standalone unit? Seems rather nuts to me...
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Old 02-19-2001, 01:49 PM   #13
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Yes there is at least one guy with Impreza who uses it as a stand alone unit. Thats becuase he has transplanted an EJ25 into an old Impreza, and since he had to rewire the whole car anyway, they did it with TEC alone.

People who are considering using a Haltec standalone, please, go somewhere and look at the wiring harness that comes with it. You will have a heart attack when you see it.
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Old 02-19-2001, 09:49 PM   #14
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Although the wiring loom looks confusing to some people, it really isn't after reading the Haltech manual and rewiring my 1.8FWD to a 2.2AWD.

This experience has made me more aware of the various connectors that go on the engine and it really isn't that hard to decipher.

Just my $.02
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Old 02-19-2001, 10:03 PM   #15
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Not only the Haltec wiring harness looks huge with about 100 wires, you also have to crimp a lot of the connectors and plugs onto it. Good for people who like to crimp stuff, bad for those who just want to install and drive it.
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Old 02-19-2001, 10:14 PM   #16
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again we should look at the goals. For everyday suburban house owner, the tec-II is great, meaning it's simple. And if you tell me you don't have a laptop, then take the dam computer you have right now that is used to surf the bbs and drag it to the garage. you don't really need a laptop, you can do it with a palm, cassiopia (new ones of course). You get visuals of all your engine stuff, and get instant on the fly programibility.

I think it's just me, but anything you can hook a computer up to must be really cool. the possibilities are endless. If your really crazy you could even convert a 25 hp go-cart to fuel injection and use the tec-II.

I just don't want to deal with somthing I can't handle, such as the haltech, etc...
Dude you can run up to like 28 psi of boost and fuel managment to handle that on the tec-II. Thats damn good enough for me.
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Old 03-07-2001, 01:25 PM   #17
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Has anyone tried to find the Haltek website? I had it bookmarked at one time, but when I did web searches, the homepage I came up with says "We had to shut down operations blah blah blah" It could be a different company, tho... anyway... they do give a number for another company... any ideas?
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Old 03-07-2001, 01:44 PM   #18
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http://www.haltech.com.au/Products/ECUs/E6K/e6k.html

That is to the E6K that is being referred to.
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Old 03-07-2001, 01:51 PM   #19
mrbell
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I guess since I'm 'bout t' grajiate frum collej, I shud lern myself sum spellin'...
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Old 03-07-2001, 07:45 PM   #20
MattC
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WRXwannabe,

I don't know if you have ever dealt with the tech software, but I think I need to clear some things up. First, the tech is not for the faint. I have spent endless hours trying to perfect my car. The car did run on my base map, but it was far from optimal. My current map looks nothing like the one originally sent to me. I have changed just about everything, from my TOG to all of my EGO table.

Some other things you are wrong about:
You DO need a laptop. As said before, a $300 thinkpad will do. I am almost positive it won't run on Windows CE, so it won't run on a Palm. You can run as much boost/timing/rpms/fuel as you like, if your motor will handle it.

I'm willing to bet that if you can't handle a Haltech, you can't handle a Tech. They are both basically stand alone, they just have different ways of approaching it.

MattC
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Old 04-09-2001, 02:21 PM   #21
stimpy
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+Haltech can be tuned in Real Time, meaning you don't have to turn off the car and load a map.

-/+ Everything is done by bar graphs (3d), meaning you don't manipulate numbers, just tweak graphs (dunno if that is a plus or a minus).

+Built in boost and idle control. Don't need to spend extra money to achieve these features.

-Uses stock sensors so a higher resolution crank sensor is not an option. Tuning to the ragged edge could get you into trouble.

-No high-output ignition coils. Can be purchased seperately, but this is the same as the Tec.

Haltech - $1200
not sure about injectors
difficult to install yourself
no real basemaps available

Tech II - $2500
high-output coils
injectors
completely bolt on
boost control
comes with base maps

Just thought I would add a little to this discussion, since I am now researching engine management.

-Jon
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Old 04-10-2001, 09:46 AM   #22
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Bump! Anybody else?

-Jon
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Old 04-11-2001, 12:40 AM   #23
Thug
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I have heard 1 negative about the Tech II that I dont think has been discussed.

I know there is a local who's Tech II sometimes cuts out when he goes thru a puddle. I dont think this would be an issue with the Haltech.
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Old 04-11-2001, 12:48 AM   #24
stimpy
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That is actually part of a larger issue regarding connections to the actual Tech-II unit. I think it has flaky connections that must be cared for and covered with some sort protectant to prevent the elements from making contact with it. I do not think it is a big deal if you are aware of the issue.

How important is the built in knock sensor going to be? I know the Haltech doesn't have it, but I am also aware that the Tech-II users actually disable the knock sensor after 4500-5000rpm. Is the knock sensor going to mostly be used on throttle roll in or at peak boost? I am also aware of the fact that you are supposed to completely disable the knock sensor while tuning the Tech-II unit.

-Jon
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Old 04-11-2001, 12:52 AM   #25
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a local with a TEC-II that cuts out going through a puddle? That's quite honestly the first I've heard of it... Nate, if you'd elaborate on the details instead of alluding to hearsay it would help.

Also, it's a well-known fact of life that electricity and water don't mix well. A HalTec set up in a bad way so that it could get wet would also suffer. Paul Eklund's ProRally Impreza has a TEC-II in it and seems to have done just fine, and I think he's gotten the car a lot dirtier than most people on this board...

-Edwin
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