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View Poll Results: Stealing the STI in it's debut?
No chance in hell! 15 31.25%
Slight chance. 13 27.08%
For sure! 20 41.67%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 04-21-2003, 01:53 PM   #1
SpeedShift
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Lightbulb Stealing the STI in it's debut?

there are posters that claim the STI, in it's debut, can be purchased for around invoice. i just want to know what people think about this with all the hype and markup rumors of $5,000 or more being spread on the STI.
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Old 04-21-2003, 02:07 PM   #2
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First we need to set up a power outage for the New York auto show. Then we go in with night vision goggles......

oh wait, that's not what this thread is about.
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Old 04-21-2003, 02:44 PM   #3
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SpeedShift,

I saw your comments in the other thread and I choose not to say anything. But now you open yet another thread trying to justify your disbelief that a dealer would sell the STi for $400 over invoice.

To clear this all up, YES!!!! In Victor, NY we have a dealership that has a no-haggle policy that they are sticking to, even with the STi.

All the posts about Van Bortel Subaru selling the STi for $400 over invoice are true. The kicker is, they do not require a deposit or any commitment of any kind and anyone that knew that the STi might be coming went down there or called and put their name on the list.

As of last month, there were well over 90 people who have asked to be put on the list. Now, Van Bortel is no longer giving out numbers, they are just taking your name and info. When asked how many STi's they think they might get, their guess was about 10 in 2003.

There is another dealership in Webster, NY that is selling the STi at MSRP and require a $500 non-refundable deposit. When I was there last week to get an oil filter they only had 2 people on the list for the STi.

I hope this is clear to you SpeedShift. If you don't believe me (or everyone else) call them. Van Bortel Subaru 1-800-724-8872
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Old 04-21-2003, 02:54 PM   #4
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has that thread been closed? because i can't gain access to it.

well anyway, a dealer can say anything they want. it makes sense if the dealership will say that they will sell the car at about invoice because of these reasons;

1) the salesman/woman made a mistake, keeps making the mistake.

2) the dealership is prepping up future customers in hopes of a bidding war when the cars roll off the truck, i.e., bascially the markup being implemented in a sneaky fashion. a hot customer is the best customer in retail sales.

3) the price quotes could be based on after the initial wave of cars get sold by dealers terms (markup). meaning that you might have to wait til next years model if the dealership can't allocate any more (which is most likely the case).
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Old 04-21-2003, 03:01 PM   #5
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I guess the term "stubborn" would be an understatement here.
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Old 04-21-2003, 03:08 PM   #6
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in a situation like this, it is better to be stubborn, than gullible.
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Old 04-21-2003, 03:16 PM   #7
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How about a different poll : "Yes, I am impatient enough to pay over MSRP for an STi"
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Old 04-21-2003, 03:21 PM   #8
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look at it this way...their marketing deal is that they give everyone the same price, and the lowest price you'll reliably find. Why mess with the customer's trust for a measly 10 cars a year? That's just silly.

If you don't understand it, that's fine, but there's only so many ways people can tell you they trust the dealer's promise until a car is actually delivered for that price.

Sorry if I offended you.
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Old 04-21-2003, 04:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpeedShift
in a situation like this, it is better to be stubborn, than gullible.
Sounds like someone was "burned" once before.

Your views on dealerships trying to control the market value of the STi are a bit on the extreme side. Yes some dealerships will try and get a premium for a popular car. ie S2000 and EVO. But, a dealership baiting 100 people into a bidding war is not what Van Bortel does. They keep overhead and prices low to give the customers the best experience and price they can. That is why they are one of the top 3 Subaru dealerships in the country.

I can only speak for the market and dealerships around me but any dealership that has tried to get a $5000 markup on a $30,000 car has never been successful. Even the Mitsu dealership here removed the $5000 markup when the 4 EVO's on the lot did not sell (they are still there now).
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Old 04-21-2003, 06:47 PM   #10
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i also had it written in paper that i would recieve the STI for MSRP or less at northtown subaru in buffalo, NY. I was #2 on the list and they did req a $500 deductible. I chose to remove my name from the list for my own financial reasons, but one of my good friends is #1 on the list, and also has it in paper that he will recieve the car for MSRP or LESS.
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Old 04-21-2003, 07:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpeedShift
in a situation like this, it is better to be stubborn, than gullible.
How about stupid?
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Old 04-21-2003, 08:54 PM   #12
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bah...

what is stupid is being on a waiting list that is 10 times larger than the amount of actual cars being produced for model year 2004, and hoping to snatch one up at invoice....

for those that refuse to pay anything near msrp in it's debut, you will always be second to the ones that have the cash to do business.

regardless of the fact that you put money down, the dealer guaranteed you the car at your terms, but you will get that car when one becomes available at your terms, which will make you wait, and wait, and wait, which means you wont get one in it's debut.
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Old 04-21-2003, 11:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpeedShift
bah...

what is stupid is being on a waiting list that is 10 times larger than the amount of actual cars being produced for model year 2004, and hoping to snatch one up at invoice....

for those that refuse to pay anything near msrp in it's debut, you will always be second to the ones that have the cash to do business.

regardless of the fact that you put money down, the dealer guaranteed you the car at your terms, but you will get that car when one becomes available at your terms, which will make you wait, and wait, and wait, which means you wont get one in it's debut.
Oh my...

If you feel the need to pay a steep premium because you just *have* to be the first kid on the block with the new toy, then just do it!! It's ok. Really. We all all have different needs.

Whatever you do, enjoy!! (and by all means, relax)
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Old 04-22-2003, 02:11 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpeedShift
in a situation like this, it is better to be stubborn, than gullible.
Im hoping you watched Dr. Phil today. Whole show was about people who dont know how to haggle, especially with car salesmen.
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Old 04-22-2003, 08:19 AM   #15
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SpeedShift, if you don't like what people have to say about their deals and you insist that we will never ever get an STI for less than $100k (in my opinion you likely work for a dealership and are trying to justify a markup) then go away. The rest of us are pretty confident that when we watched the sales manager or ower of the dealership write down "MSRP" and sign his name to it, we'll get it for that. Stop wasting everyones time to make the same stupid, and assenine, argument. We won't pay markups, period. If dealer try it, they will have STI's piling up. I'll get one shipped from Japan before I pay a markup.
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Old 04-22-2003, 09:55 AM   #16
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i am just stating what is going to happen when they launch the STi. remember that subaru is not making money on the STi, it is just a marketing tactic to boost their image in the american market. someone has got to make money on the car, and the dealerships will try to.

and no, i dont work for a dealership.
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Old 04-22-2003, 10:07 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpeedShift
bah...

what is stupid is being on a waiting list that is 10 times larger than the amount of actual cars being produced for model year 2004, and hoping to snatch one up at invoice....
if they distribute the cars based on sales volume, the dealers that sell more cars will get more STi's. Then, the people that won't get a car will be those who are #2 at their tiny dealership that's charging 3k over MSRP.

if they do bring 6000 STi's this year, and distribute by sales, it's reasonable that the top 2 or 3 dealerships could get 50-60 STi's. Some dealers might not get any, if they don't buy the tools required, right?
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Old 04-22-2003, 10:14 AM   #18
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don't know if he knows what he's talking about but....the guy at the Subaru booth @ the nyc car show said 4000 this year.

kinda put the fear of god in me.
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Old 04-22-2003, 11:31 AM   #19
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i dont think there will be more than 4,000 produced this year. this is after all, a collectors car.
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Old 04-22-2003, 11:32 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Xander1281
SpeedShift,

There is another dealership in Webster, NY that is selling the STi at MSRP and require a $500 non-refundable deposit. When I was there last week to get an oil filter they only had 2 people on the list for the STi.

I hope this is clear to you SpeedShift. If you don't believe me (or everyone else) call them. Van Bortel Subaru 1-800-724-8872

This dealer in Webster is Doyle. I could walk there from my house. I went in last year to inquire about the STi and they hadn't heard about it. I told them a little about it and said it would be limited in number. Their response - "oh we'll have a premium on it then." They also bragged about how they sold a blaze yellow WRX on eBay. Nice place.

I'll be driving thru the parking lot at Doyle with my STi the day I get it.


Bill
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Old 04-22-2003, 11:37 AM   #21
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why can't you place an order for one of these cars yet? are they doing this on purpose? or is it still too early? i mean, it takes about 10 weeks for a car to arrive once order is firmed up.

are they going to wait til the cars roll off the truck and brace themselves for the flood of on-lookers and potential buyers?
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Old 04-22-2003, 11:50 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpeedShift
i dont think there will be more than 4,000 produced this year. this is after all, a collectors car.
so is a honda civic.
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Old 04-22-2003, 12:18 PM   #23
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Well, in my view a "collector's car" is one that goes up for sale at those fancy auctions you see on the speed channel. The STI ain't no collector car folks. It's a $30K car in a highly competitive market segment that historically has done very poorly in terms of sales and longevity. Come to think of it, do you see many Japanese cars that ever become "collector cars"? I think the STI would be a fun car, but hardly some kind of "investment"....
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Old 04-22-2003, 01:41 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Oldnslow
Well, in my view a "collector's car" is one that goes up for sale at those fancy auctions you see on the speed channel. The STI ain't no collector car folks. It's a $30K car in a highly competitive market segment that historically has done very poorly in terms of sales and longevity. Come to think of it, do you see many Japanese cars that ever become "collector cars"? I think the STI would be a fun car, but hardly some kind of "investment"....
A "collectors car" is anything that at least two people are interested in buying and are willing to 'bid up' the price above either retail (if new) or its 'Blue Book' value (if used) or original as new value (if 'historical') until one buyer walks away with keys & pink slip in hand.

All kinds of garbage/gold have gone to auction/bid from the AMC 'Gremlin/Pacer', Ford 'Edsel' and Ford 'Pantera' which were slow if not forgettable sellers when new to the 'hot stuff' such as the AC 'Cobra', Triumph 'Sunbeam', Pontiac 'GTO' & 'Judge', Ford 'Boss 302' and all manner of Hupmobile, Tucker, and Willys in between.

And be sure all of the above have car clubs and dyed in the wool fans, no matter they be trash or treasure.

Heck, there is even a small but fervent following for Subaru SVX's (a sales failure when new). I'm sure there will be a huge draw for years to come by hardore Subie fans toward the US 2.5L STi. Depending on how the popular & worldwide automotive press embraces (or rejects) the US STi the rest of the non-Subie fan world may embrace it too.
If and when that happens then we'll possibly have a collectors item on our hands.

But keep in mind, cars are not and should not be considered investments. Yeah, there are notable exceptions like the McLaren, or Porsche 959 or Jag XJ220 or Ferarri Berlinetta Boxer or a original '53 Corvette Roadster (a dog!).
By and large though cars are no more an investment than a refrigerator (though a good condition post-war 'Kelvinator' can fetch several hundred bucks!) or an '89 Honda Accord.

Cars are for commuting & driving fun...
Bonds are for retiring in the sun.

- Janq
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Old 04-22-2003, 01:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpeedShift
i dont think there will be more than 4,000 produced this year. this is after all, a collectors car.
The STi is hardly a collector’s car.

The reason why we are getting the STi with all the "goodies" on it is because those "goodies" are now much cheaper to produce and are more widely available. The cost of R&D has been recouped and the parts can now be sold at a cheaper price while still making a profit.

Look at cars that cost $50,000 ten years ago. Those cars had all the latest gadgets and innovations with a price to match. We can now buy cars with those same gadgets and innovations for much less and the $50,000 cars have new stuff for us to yearn for.

If you are familiar at all with the computer industry you will know that the price for a high-end system stays pretty much constant. But with each coming year the parts inside that computer get better and faster. Now, years later the mid-range system has the parts that the high-end system had at a lower cost.

We have just been around long enough now to see some feature we wanted in the past available now at for the price we want to pay for it.
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