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Old 06-01-2003, 01:12 PM   #1
rsholland
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Default Questions about the new Legacy

While we have all been praising the new Legacy for what has been revealed, there still remain many questions.

• Does the new Legacy get the Hill-Holder clutch?

• Do wagons get the self-leveling rear suspension?

• Has the towing capacity been increased?

• Has the payload been increased any?

• Is there a full-size spare tire?

• Will there be a dual-range tranny offered?

• Are the above questions better suited to the yet to be released Outback/Lancaster, than to the Legacy?

• Has the interior room been increased? I would assume so, since the wheelbase is .7" longer, and the car is a tad wider.

Bob
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Old 06-06-2003, 10:04 PM   #2
Legacy777
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While we have all been praising the new Legacy for what has been revealed, there still remain many questions.

• Does the new Legacy get the Hill-Holder clutch?

• Do wagons get the self-leveling rear suspension?

• Has the towing capacity been increased?

• Has the payload been increased any?

• Is there a full-size spare tire?

• Will there be a dual-range tranny offered?

• Are the above questions better suited to the yet to be released Outback/Lancaster, than to the Legacy?

• Has the interior room been increased? I would assume so, since the wheelbase is .7" longer, and the car is a tad wider.

I would say no it probably won't get self-leveling susp, and doubt there will be a dual range tranny for the states.

The other questions....I'm assuming it's bigger inside....and others....not sure.
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Old 06-06-2003, 10:12 PM   #3
shirokuma
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Default Re: Questions about the new Legacy

Quote:
Originally posted by rsholland
Are the above questions better suited to the yet to be released Outback/Lancaster, than to the Legacy?
Yes. The questions you asked, and the Legacy that has been tested so far, are separated by a vast gulf of differing purposes. To wit: would you ask those questions of a new M3 being released?

I'm not trying to be facetious - the questions are certainly valid, but they relate only to the Outback/Lancaster (or Baja/Forester, I suppose) and not to the Legacy, given the separation in purpose between the lines. And the Outback/Lancaster is not due for release in Japan for a bit yet (even to press).

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
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Old 06-07-2003, 11:09 AM   #4
rsholland
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Default Re: Re: Questions about the new Legacy

Quote:
Originally posted by shirokuma


Yes. The questions you asked, and the Legacy that has been tested so far, are separated by a vast gulf of differing purposes. To wit: would you ask those questions of a new M3 being released?

I'm not trying to be facetious - the questions are certainly valid, but they relate only to the Outback/Lancaster (or Baja/Forester, I suppose) and not to the Legacy, given the separation in purpose between the lines. And the Outback/Lancaster is not due for release in Japan for a bit yet (even to press).

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
Paul

I think some of those questions can be answered now. Does it have a full-size spare? Not trying to be cute here, but lifting the trunk floor cover will answer that one. Certainly payload and towing specs must have been released for the new model now on sale; that info would be in the owners manual, at the very least.

Since there's been no mention of either the Hill-Holder clutch or dual-range tranny, I can only assume those are features MIA in the Legacy; as to the Outback, time will tell...

Also, one of my reasons for posting these questions—even though they may not seem appropriate for the Legacy—is to get a sense as to whether the new car (even in the sporting Legacy mode) is structurally any "beefier" than the outgoing model. Increased towing capacity would indicate that, for example. If it is, then that's a good sign for the yet-to-be announced Outback, I would think.

Bob

Last edited by rsholland; 06-07-2003 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 06-07-2003, 01:00 PM   #5
SUBE555
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Theoretically speaking they could have a modified subframe in the OB if this was the one area that made a difference though I doubt this is the determining factor area. I'd have to imagine brakes, the level of the suspension and the forces placed on the powertrain are a BIG portion of giving towing recommendations in addition to the chassis rigidity. Just my 1.5 cents.
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Old 06-07-2003, 03:37 PM   #6
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Question Legacy B4??

The question I'm most interested in is:
"Will we get the (Legacy) B4?"

And, if so,

"How Much?"

I'm currently on the wait-list for a WRX STi (Black/Gold )
But after seeing pics of the JDM B4 I may reconsider and wait for that to come to us since it's slightly bigger and though far less hard-core I may be willing to make that trade for everyday livability.

(I'm sure the STi Legacy will be too much $40k+).


---
And if we do get the B4, how much can it tow?
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Old 06-07-2003, 05:51 PM   #7
shirokuma
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I looked at the questions as a whole - while one or two smaller questions may be answerable, you are obviously looking towards a total package. One that's not available yet, and one I don't know what Subaru is planning to do with fully.

The Legacy that is available now in Japan does not have a full-size spare. I don't think it will for quite a time, given the amount of space such a tyre would take up in the rear. Tow capacity is completely overlooked in Japan, and it would take some serious effort to find an actual employee within SOJ that could answer that question, because it's a non-issue here. Nobody tows. That's an area that SOA will know well, and they won't know it, or spill the beans on it, until the release of the American Legacy.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
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Old 06-07-2003, 05:55 PM   #8
shirokuma
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Default Re: Legacy B4??

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghostrider600
The question I'm most interested in is:
"Will we get the (Legacy) B4?"
"How Much?"
But after seeing pics of the JDM B4 I may reconsider and wait for that to come to us since it's slightly bigger and though far less hard-core I may be willing to make that trade for everyday livability.
At least a variant with a 2.5 turbo motor.
Less than people believe, more than people wish.

It's at one end more hard-core than you can give credit for, at the other less hard-core in ways that people will truely appreciate. Since you are a bike owner, the difference between the STi and a full-spec B4 spec B is going to be relatively small in performance, relatively large in comfort and refinement.

And I'm sure it's more than capable of towing your bike around.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
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Old 06-07-2003, 07:42 PM   #9
rsholland
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Smile Thanks Paul

Quote:
Originally posted by shirokuma
I looked at the questions as a whole - while one or two smaller questions may be answerable, you are obviously looking towards a total package. One that's not available yet, and one I don't know what Subaru is planning to do with fully.

The Legacy that is available now in Japan does not have a full-size spare. I don't think it will for quite a time, given the amount of space such a tyre would take up in the rear. Tow capacity is completely overlooked in Japan, and it would take some serious effort to find an actual employee within SOJ that could answer that question, because it's a non-issue here. Nobody tows. That's an area that SOA will know well, and they won't know it, or spill the beans on it, until the release of the American Legacy.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
Thanks for the followup. Interesting that nobody tows in Japan...

I think some of those questions will be answered, or at least addressed, once the European, Australian and New Zealand Outbacks make their debut in the fall. Granted, their models will differ somewhat from North American models in specification, but at least we should get some sense as to whether the towing has been improved, or remains the same.

Bob
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Old 06-07-2003, 08:06 PM   #10
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-Only because it was mentioned to be in the wagon, are the reclining rear seats also included or optional in the sedan?

-Any word on interior dimensions yet?

Anything else is going to have to wait until the US version is announced as far as I can tell.
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Old 06-08-2003, 10:42 AM   #11
Ghostrider600
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Talking Re: Re: Legacy B4??

Great, thanks for the response Paul, it's just what I was hoping to hear as I need something fun that can also get my bike to the track.

This is why the Evo got discounted in favor of the STi (the WRX is slightly "soft" for my tastes, and by the time I void the warranty with AM goodies, I may as well just get the STi or B4).

BTW- the look on my salesman face when I showed him the SoA brochure w/2000lb tow limit on the STI and asked "This true?" was priceless.

I used to tow with a 95 Z28 LT1 6spd that I also AutoX'd until some 16yr old decided red-means-green and torpedoed my car.

I'm not sure I'm patient enough to wait for the B4 to hit our shores, so maybe I'll get the STi to tide me over till then...

...Or maybe I can get back to Kyoto...or at least have my fiancee send one over...Hmm...

Thanks again!
Ghostrider600

Quote:
Originally posted by shirokuma


The difference between the STi and a full-spec B4 spec B is going to be relatively small in performance, relatively large in comfort and refinement.

And I'm sure it's more than capable of towing your bike around.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
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Old 06-08-2003, 12:28 PM   #12
rsholland
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Default Re: Re: Re: Legacy B4??

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghostrider600
BTW- the look on my salesman face when I showed him the SoA brochure w/2000lb tow limit on the STI and asked "This true?" was priceless.
Speaking of towing with the WRX and STi in the '04 US-Impreza brochure, their wording seems inconsistent and confusing. For example:

• On the specs page, they do list 2000 pounds as the limit for both the WRX and STi, as Ghostrider mentioned. However...

• If you look at the accessory tow hitch picture, elsewhere in the brochure, it mentions (2000 pounds) for the WRX wagon, and there's no mention of the WRX sedan or STi. This suggests to me you can tow with the WRX wagon, but not the WRX or STi sedan. You can certainly use the hitch receiver for a bike rack attachment.

• Also, you should be aware—that for any US-spec Subaru—you can't tow over 1000 pounds unless your trailer has trailer brakes. This info is somewhat obscure in the brochures, but it is definitely mentioned in the owners manual.

Bob
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Old 06-09-2003, 11:17 PM   #13
Ghostrider600
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Bob,

I actually emailed SoA about the towing, and they told me the following about the sedans--their hitch receiver won't clear the bumper (cover) on the Sedans, but they do on the wagons since the bumper design is slightly different.

etrailer.com lists a hitch that will fit the Sedan body style, and they suggest a longer receiver to extend the ball out and away from the car.

When I emailed them, they mentioned that you *may* have to trim the underside of the bumper cover to get everything to mount, but you shouldn't notice it (unless you routinely roll your car or go to shows and put mirrors under it ).




Quote:
Originally posted by rsholland


Speaking of towing with the WRX and STi in the '04 US-Impreza brochure, their wording seems inconsistent and confusing. For example:

• On the specs page, they do list 2000 pounds as the limit for both the WRX and STi, as Ghostrider mentioned. However...

• If you look at the accessory tow hitch picture, elsewhere in the brochure, it mentions (2000 pounds) for the WRX wagon, and there's no mention of the WRX sedan or STi. This suggests to me you can tow with the WRX wagon, but not the WRX or STi sedan. You can certainly use the hitch receiver for a bike rack attachment.

• Also, you should be aware—that for any US-spec Subaru—you can't tow over 1000 pounds unless your trailer has trailer brakes. This info is somewhat obscure in the brochures, but it is definitely mentioned in the owners manual.

Bob
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Old 06-09-2003, 11:45 PM   #14
rsholland
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ghostrider600
Bob,

I actually emailed SoA about the towing, and they told me the following about the sedans--their hitch receiver won't clear the bumper (cover) on the Sedans, but they do on the wagons since the bumper design is slightly different.

etrailer.com lists a hitch that will fit the Sedan body style, and they suggest a longer receiver to extend the ball out and away from the car.

When I emailed them, they mentioned that you *may* have to trim the underside of the bumper cover to get everything to mount, but you shouldn't notice it (unless you routinely roll your car or go to shows and put mirrors under it ).




Very interesting, indeed. Sounds like some Subie engineer dropped the ball on the hitch receiver design (or is it the bumper design?). Even more interesting is that Subaru has had two (now three) years to correct this, and they haven't done it!

Bob
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Old 06-10-2003, 10:58 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by rsholland


Very interesting, indeed. Sounds like some Subie engineer dropped the ball on the hitch receiver design (or is it the bumper design?). Even more interesting is that Subaru has had two (now three) years to correct this, and they haven't done it!

Bob
When I asked my local dealer about towing with the sedan (I was looking at the WRX before I decided to wait for the STi) he looked at me and said "Just get the wagon. Why would you want to tow with the sedan?"

Which is probably what he says to everyone, or maybe most people who intend to tow just migrate naturally to the wagon over the sedan.

So maybe it's only a very few people like me who are causing problems, and SoA thinks there aren't enough idiots wanting to tow with a sedan (or STi) to worry about...as paul pointed out, in Japan no one tows, so it's a non-issue to them. (If you've seen their roads and their driving habits you'd know why they never tow--and it's a GOOD thing they don't. )

The odd thing, to me, is that when the did the mild re-style of the front and rear they *still* didn't bother to address the problem, which makes me think they think it's not a problem.

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Old 06-10-2003, 11:21 AM   #16
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Just the way they've styled/compromised the styling on the newer Imprezas points to the fact that the wagon is marketed as the more utilitarian choice.... (no wide fenders, no wide susension, etc). It makes sense to say, hey, here's your towing option, instead of making whatever changes to the USDM GD becuase those changes made for the very few might bother the majority.......it sucks, but it's the way it goes, ya know?

If I was SOA, I'd be looking at it this way; if anybody wants to tow something with a WRX, which is an already rare enough possibility, they're going to migrate towards the wagon; people aren't going to be towing other cars with any Subaru, so you're left with the people who are probably going to tow things like very small boats, jet skis, and bikes, that sort of thing. As utilitarian as Subaru has a reputation for being, it simply doesn't make sense to make big design changes for these things for every single car in the line; with creative engineering, you can make something work, right?
It's like complaining that a Type R can't tow without work, or a Miata, or a Mazdasport Protege, or an SRT-4, or something. Most car manufacturers don't even offer factory hitches for their cars, so Subaru's still ahead on that count....

The car will not come with a full size spare, as 98% of vehicles, especially non-truck ones, come with spacesavers to expand interior room....
that said, my 97 OB has a utility tray that covers the spare (under the lifting floor) and if you removed that, a full size spare would probably fit, but at the expenese of storing anything else down there.......

To the guys in Japan, do any subarus come with the hill-holder, or is that just in USDM/export Foresters?
And dualrange trannies have always been available for OB's and Foresters, just not in our market (Australia and New Zealand for sure, not sure about others.....
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Old 06-10-2003, 12:42 PM   #17
rsholland
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Quote:
Originally posted by sybir
The car will not come with a full size spare, as 98% of vehicles, especially non-truck ones, come with spacesavers to expand interior room....
that said, my 97 OB has a utility tray that covers the spare (under the lifting floor) and if you removed that, a full size spare would probably fit, but at the expenese of storing anything else down there.......

To the guys in Japan, do any subarus come with the hill-holder, or is that just in USDM/export Foresters?
And dualrange trannies have always been available for OB's and Foresters, just not in our market (Australia and New Zealand for sure, not sure about others.....
In Australia (and other markets), the Outback comes with a full-size spare. Our Foresters have full-size spares. I think the reason our Outback doesn't get a full-size spare, is because the North American Outback gets a larger 225/60x16 tire, whereas other markets get a smaller 215/60x16 tire (same size as our Forester), and the larger tire won't fit in the spare tire tub under the trunk floor.

The Hill-Holder clutch is in wide use in other markets. I don't think turbos get it, but I think Outbacks and Foresters do. Not sure about Legacys and Imprezas, however.

Bob
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