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Old 09-18-2003, 10:49 AM   #1
NYCshopper
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Default Subaru SUV debut next month in Tokyo

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae...y.php?id=40081

Quote:
Subaru Debut Delayed


Despite strong speculation to the contrary, Subaru didn't show a new SUV at Frankfurt. It is now believed the car will make its debut at next month's Tokyo event. Sources suggest it will be powered by a 3.6-litre flat-six engine and come with automatic transmission.
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Old 09-18-2003, 11:26 AM   #2
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Default Tokyo!?!?

Well there goes my prediction of it debuting at the upcoming Detroit show in January... Notice how the European press keeps referring to it as an "SUV," whereas the American press refers to it as a "crossover?"

Bet it has a B11S-like nose and an alphanumeric name.

Bob
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Old 09-18-2003, 12:21 PM   #3
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The alphanumeric is fine with me, but I sure hope that their market research people shot down the Alfa styling front.
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Old 09-18-2003, 03:56 PM   #4
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Default Not me...

I love that front.

Bob
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Old 09-18-2003, 04:16 PM   #5
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It's good to see that Subaru's new SUV will be a global vehicle and not one expressly made for North America.

The last time we got a Subaru expressly for North America, they gave us the Baja. Great idea, blundered ad nauseum by SOA.
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Old 09-18-2003, 06:20 PM   #6
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Default Re: Not me...

Quote:
Originally posted by rsholland
I love that front.

Bob
You, my friend, are an odd man. This styling is supposed to give Subaru a look that they can implement and become recognizable in any car as being a Subaru like a Volvo or BMW grill. That is supposed to be the intention. Well, then why copy Alfa Romeo? Maybe I'm in the minority, but I prefer the <___> of the new latest Impreza and Legacy. OTOH, I realize that they are trying to integrate the Subaru emblem at the top of some kind of grill instead of having it floating in the middle. Works for Audi, Chevy, and others. I dunno.
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Old 09-18-2003, 06:42 PM   #7
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Default Re: Re: Not me...

Quote:
Originally posted by PPower


You, my friend, are an odd man. This styling is supposed to give Subaru a look that they can implement and become recognizable in any car as being a Subaru like a Volvo or BMW grill. That is supposed to be the intention. Well, then why copy Alfa Romeo? Maybe I'm in the minority, but I prefer the <___> of the new latest Impreza and Legacy. OTOH, I realize that they are trying to integrate the Subaru emblem at the top of some kind of grill instead of having it floating in the middle. Works for Audi, Chevy, and others. I dunno.
Not an Alfa grille, unless you consider it a fat Alfa grille that is upside down.

As to styling and design, well that's a personal choice, for sure. Let me just say that I've been a graphic designer for over 30 years and teach design part-time on a college level. So I'm speaking with what I hope is from a knowledgable standpoint. Again, feel free to disagree.

Bob
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Old 09-18-2003, 07:29 PM   #8
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Default Re: Re: Re: Not me...

Quote:
Originally posted by rsholland


Not an Alfa grille, unless you consider it a fat Alfa grille that is upside down.

As to styling and design, well that's a personal choice, for sure. Let me just say that I've been a graphic designer for over 30 years and teach design part-time on a college level. So I'm speaking with what I hope is from a knowledgable standpoint. Again, feel free to disagree.

Bob
OK. I'll do that. I know I have good taste, and that's all the credential I need for myself. Some people like cubist styles while I prefer Impressionist. One can appreciate different approaches while liking one better.

If I make a grill that is basically a rectangle with a diagonal line from bottom left to top right and the badge in the middle, is that not a rip off of Volvo? Although there are things about the design that I don't like, my biggest arguement is how it looks like an upside down alfa especially with the horizontal openings to the sides of the featured center. It's just my opinion. I don't like Supras because they look like a Japanese version of an F40- like you took one and blew in the tailpipe real hard to make it more rounded. It doesn't mean that the design is bad, but I prefer certain "classes" of cars to have more originality. This is especially important when this "style" is going to start changing the face of Subaru for possibly the next 20 years or so. That's important.
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Old 09-18-2003, 08:34 PM   #9
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What was it I once heard about art?....I don't know much about art, but I know what I like,........and I don't like that.

The rear is fine, the side is fine, but that schnoz? Why do I think of Kukla the Dragon when I see the B11S? Please Subaru, revise it or dump it.
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Old 09-18-2003, 10:29 PM   #10
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I guess the chances of getting an MT in this thing are just about 0, right? I wonder how tough an MT swap would be ...
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Old 09-19-2003, 02:13 AM   #11
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Are their any pictures of it?
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Old 09-19-2003, 02:20 AM   #12
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I'll sit side-by-side with PPower and Carrera.
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Old 09-19-2003, 12:00 PM   #13
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I'm gonna show Bob some love here

I like the grill of the B11s...I do think that there is room for improvement, but I think the general idea has a lot of potential.

And, if comparisons are going to be made to another company Alfa isn't a bad company to be compared to. Just look at Mitsubishi...their new grill looks a pontiac

Your Friendly Neighborhood Youth Director

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Old 09-19-2003, 02:15 PM   #14
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I don't think any of us are really saying Alfa is a bad company or design, it is just so different from what Subaru has been, i know change is hard, but that's drastic. Look at a chevrolet truck, it still has the same overall appearance in the past 15-20 years or at least you can see the evolution of it. I think the B11S looks like a cross-over of an Alfa with Nissan Z350-ish headlamps which half of everyone are using. I guess I'd rather see a bit more BMW idolization than anything. That grille is just fudgly. Smooth out the lines, use some ques from the current GT for headlamps and tails, maybe use a little Austin Martin look on the front and i think it would really look like a supercar. The things I don't like are the boxiness, the headlamps, and the grille.

Back to the X-Over, I think we'll see something based more off an OB/Legacy chassis and look. I'll have to photochop that one development photo I've seen and post it.
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Old 09-19-2003, 02:48 PM   #15
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Here's those pics I think the SUV will look closest to...





As for the proto vehicle on the bottom, we can clearly see the body lines, just playing with tire/wheel options and the bodywork can significantly improve the overall appearance and make it more marketable. I don't think it will be a full-time 7-pax either, basically the back seat for the kiddies when need be.
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Old 09-19-2003, 03:20 PM   #16
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Jeus... The front of the car...


The other pictures look just like the upcoming Legacy Wagon
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Old 09-19-2003, 03:50 PM   #17
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It may be a test muel, it might be a base Wagon (shares same wheels), but it was on the same page talking about SUV's in a Japapanese magazine. I just photochopped it out so everyone didn't have to find their L/R scroll bar to look at it.
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Old 09-19-2003, 05:08 PM   #18
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Default Change...

Nobody likes change, or at least very few people do. We all know Subaru is going for a new look. I can guarantee you, that whatever that "new" look is, there will be people who will hate it.

If Subaru is going to introduce a new look, what better model to introduce that look with than a brand new, never before produced Subaru? There is no (Subaru) history to this model line to compare it to. If Subaru were to introduce their new look on a Legacy or Impreza, the screams will be the loudest. People will holler how they screwed up the old design. Don't believe me? Witness the '02 New-Age Impreza...

Bob
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Old 09-19-2003, 11:00 PM   #19
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I'll have to agree with the new model intro versus old, the bug-eye revision spoke for itself.

I am just not a fan of the alfa-inspired or similarity look. If you say it's not, a lot of people recognize vehicles like features like that. I'm open for other ideas.

And just maybe the B11S is turning into a smoke screen for them. Development vehicle to test the waters and can use it to their advantage since everyone things that's what all new vehicles will look like.
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Old 10-02-2003, 03:50 PM   #20
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I will tell you this, if the Subarus start looking anything like the yellow car above (or B11S), I'll never buy another Subaru again. Ever. Give me a f'ing break.

I think if you polled 1,000 Americans, at least 80% would say the B11S is fugly. They are going to boost the brand image a lot of they are going to sway people from an M3 or S4, but I'm getting OT here.
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Old 10-02-2003, 03:57 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by TypeC
I will tell you this, if the Subarus start looking anything like the yellow car above (or B11S), I'll never buy another Subaru again.
So... how do you like your last ever Subaru?

Bob
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Old 10-02-2003, 06:01 PM   #22
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Wink like you didnt see this coming.....

based on this:
Quote:
Originally posted by SUBE555


i drew this:


basically my take on what it could look like. a while back i started drawing a concept up based on the WX-01 concept's proportions, but it looked to "mini-van". The above sketch has more standard suv proportions to it. I just threw in some B11s influence. My only concern is that it looks a bit like a kia sorento.

Feel free to critisize, offer suggestions.

Mark
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Old 10-02-2003, 07:51 PM   #23
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Default That's an excellent example...

of how the B11S grille could be applied to other Subarus. My guess is that on the SUV application, the grille may (?) be a bit more dominant (larger), but not much.

Not sure I like the horizontal B11S-like strip on the doors, however. I think it would look better without that. Maybe if it continued on to the tail light, and wrapped around the back of the vehicle?

My only other comment, and this deals with the root illustration which your drawing is based it on, is that it is very MDX-like, in proportions. Not sure I like that...

I'd be interested as to your take on how to adapt this B11S grille to the new Legacy.

Bob

Last edited by rsholland; 10-02-2003 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 10-03-2003, 09:05 AM   #24
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I will go ahead and place my vote in the NO B11S catagory. Its not a step I would like to see Subaru make. The front upside down Alfa grill is far from attractive, but anything can be made acceptable with enough alcohol. Subaru is on a very big threshold. Their engineering is starting to catch the public eye. Their technical prowess as a reliable, performance car company is starting to get noticed. Style wise I see more along the lines of the new legacy. Sure its a bit sedate, but classical elegance just oozes from that car. If you want to see the direction of Subaru, I would think that they would try to emulate more of the Legacy into other vehicles, since this new Liberty/Legacy has been one of the best recieved and reviewed cars Subaru has put out in YEARS. No controversy about looks or performance. I think that folks should prepare for lots of details in the Legacy to make its way into other cars in the line up.

And from what I have seen, you will really have to reach FAR and HARD to see anything from the B11S in the new legacy.

Just my 2 cents...but I will throw in the banana for good measure!



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Old 10-03-2003, 02:33 PM   #25
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Nice work, Achilles38WRX...except for the grille
But of course it's not your fault.


The thing I like the most (appart from the relatively hints to the new Legacy) is the ground clearance. Nice touch! Subaru is not an all-terrain 4x4, but some more distance between the car and the stones of the road will add some more stillness to the off-road and snow driver.

Bye!
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