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Old 12-02-2003, 01:05 AM   #1
Cosworth
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Default Perrin POSITIVE STEERING RESPONSE SYSTEM (Anti Lift Kit)

Seen some vendor(s) advertising this item now after many months of rumors but no official pics posted yet. Has anyone seen and/or have this item yet and what features does it have? Anyone have pics?

I recall that it was rumored to have some amount of adjustability of the static caster gain and would like a verificaiton of this. Also, how is the bushing designed and are there alternative materials/durometers such as what Whiteline has provided?

Jon.
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Old 12-02-2003, 03:20 AM   #2
oldmansan
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Default I've seen Whiteline

post on these forums a lot. They also back up their products if the customer is not satisfied. My personal experience with Perrin has led me to believe they do neither. I have the Whiteline ALK. I would recommend going with a proven company that backs up their products, Whiteline.

San
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Old 12-02-2003, 03:50 AM   #3
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I have quite a few Whiteline products on my car, including a Sport bush ALK and I also have quite a few Perrin products on my car.

As far as suspension goes, I'll stick with Whiteline and KNOW that not only am I getting a tried and tested product but I'm getting support after the sale right from the top.
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Old 12-02-2003, 05:01 AM   #4
Kwyjibo
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i likey whiteline too....

i bought my ALK used and the guy who sold it to me didn't have the chamfered washers and grease....whiteline shipped me a replacement set and grease all for free
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Old 12-02-2003, 02:55 PM   #5
Cosworth
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I've owned both Perrin and WL myself as well, but i'm after specific info regarding this new part, not customer relations.
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Old 12-02-2003, 03:27 PM   #6
mick_the_ginge
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Perrin has the PSRS in house. I am not sure if they are ready for mass sales yet. I'm getting one whenever I bother to drop in and collect it. (I'm local to Perrin)

Drop is more with the Perrin kit: .775".
WL: Drop is .675"

Perrin PSRS has a smaller bearing, and drops the control arm lower and farther towards the outside.

I'll take pic's when I install.
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Old 12-02-2003, 04:16 PM   #7
DrBoy01
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I saw this and I'm also interested in seeing how this ALK performs in comparison to the Whiteline ALK.

Also, Mick, be sure to mention any significant changes in NVH! I'm only in the market for a Comfort ALK and anything like the Whiteline sport model is too harsh for a wimp like me.
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Old 12-02-2003, 04:20 PM   #8
mick_the_ginge
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I may not be the best for that review. I'm running Tein coilovers with 7kg springs. I have minimal teeth left already. Add that to sway bars front and rear and you have the making for Noise, vibration & harshness. I love my car
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Old 12-02-2003, 06:18 PM   #9
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i'm never buying any perrin parts. They are way over priced and don't make any improvements over stock really. I was one of the first customers to install the perrin springs and they are just a cosmetically enhancing part. They are practically stock springs but give a drop, not stiff at all. Also they stole my pictures that i posted of my car wth the springs and put them on their site without asking I dont care about that but their products dont seem to offer much performance while whiteline does and are proven products that they back up.
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Old 12-02-2003, 06:41 PM   #10
mick_the_ginge
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I personally think you got what you paid for. Springs that lowered the car. A lowered car will handle slightly better than a stock car. If you wanted stiff, why did not you purchase coilovers of some type or custom order some stiff springs?

Read their website description for the spring: http://www.perrinperformance.com/pro...s/SPRINGS.html

They actually say that these springs will ride smoother than stock.

Do you have an evidence that the Perrin springs are softer? Did you have a compression test done on a stock spring vs a Perrin spring? What about track time? How do the two sets compare on the track when you are doing some real cornering?

But lets not get into a holy war. Some people like Perrin, some don't. I installed a Whiteline rear sway bar with Perrin endlinks. The sway bar has rusted but the Perrin end links look great. Both work.
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Old 12-05-2003, 01:16 PM   #11
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Coswort,
The PSRS is very similar to the ALK product, but it does a couple of thing a little better. The PSRS gives you more positive caster, about .65degrees, which makes the steering repsonse much better and turn in quicker. We do this by pushing the Control arm out toward the side of the car, which ends up pushing the wheel toward the front of the car. The distance that we push the control arm out is more than ALK, which is why we have more caster. Since we use a Sphearical Bearing, which is more compact than the urethane bushing, we have more room to move the pivot out.

Second thing the PSRS does is move the control arm rear pivot down. This allows the control arm takes bumps a little easier, and is the Anit lifting part of the PSRS. The stock control arm basically rides parellel to the ground, so we moved the pivot so it rides at an angle. The angle isn't more than 1 degree, but it makes a noticable difference.

Third thing, the PSRS uses a spherical bearing for the pivot. The stock part uses a squishy rubber mount that under braking will flex and cause the toe to change. Depending on how old your car is, the rubber will flex enough to cause a .500" of toe out easily. Since we do use a spherical bearing, there is more NVH. But, the NVH you will notice is when you hit a big bump/pot hole, or something more than just regular smooth concrete. What i mean is, on a freeway, there will only be a slight difference in NVH. Comparing it to coilovers with solid type tops, the coilovers are much louder.

The PSRS is $189.99 MRSP, which means that it will sell a little cheaper than that at retail level. WL's product seems to sell for $159.99 on average, so yes ours is more, but we believe people will see ours is worth the extra few dollars.

Cosworth i hope that answers your questions, feel free to call if you have anymore.

DAN AVON7,

I surely could have made your springs stiffer like you requested, but your car will bouncing around all over the road, like a honda on bumpstops. Our springs are design to lower a persons car, and improve the handling by lowering the center of gravity, and provide a slightly stiffer ride that stock. They are not much stiffer, mainly because the struts are valved for a perticular spring rate. If you go out of this rate, the strut becomes more and more "bouncy".

Sure there are aftermarket struts out there that you can adjust the dampening on, but 90% of the people that buy lowering springs have stock struts. That is why they are the stiffness they are. I drove around with AGX's and our springs for a long time, and they were perfect! Stiff, but not kidney hurting stiff, smooth but not overy soft. This was on the 2 setting on the AGX's. When turned stiffer they were great for the track or any racing situation.

Looking at past posts you have made, you seem to be wanting coilover performace from your Perrin Springs??? That is not going to happen, unless you buy some AGX's or some strut that is adjustable. But paying $250 for springs and expecting $1300 in performance is really unreasonable. If you choose to buy some kind of adjustable strut, i am sure that you will be happy.

Jeff Perrin
www.perrinperformance.com
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Old 12-05-2003, 01:21 PM   #12
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Does the PSRS require shimming the subframe (like the whiteline standard or comfort ALK) or removal of it (like the whiteline motorsports kit)?

Thanks.
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Old 12-05-2003, 03:00 PM   #13
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acually now that i read my post again it was pretty harsh. I think my expectations were to high for what a spring can do considering how soft the stock struts are. Yes i am looking for something more and that is why i am investing in a set of coilovers.
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Old 12-05-2003, 11:28 PM   #14
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Old 12-06-2003, 02:46 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by driggity
Does the PSRS require shimming the subframe (like the whiteline standard or comfort ALK) or removal of it (like the whiteline motorsports kit)?

Thanks.
Per Swano's pic, I'd say take your pick.
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Old 12-06-2003, 02:04 PM   #16
DrBoy01
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Jeff:

Can you say if the PSRS will have more NVH than the Whiteline Comfort ALK? It seems as if the bushings will be a tad stiffer because they're a lot less compliant, but I'd like to get the info straight from the horse's mouth . Your post was very informative and I'm definitely intersted, but like I mentioned before, my car already has more NVH than I'd like and I'd like to know how much more the PSRS would add if I were to purchase and install one.
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Old 12-06-2003, 11:03 PM   #17
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I saw a prototype of this piece at Jeff's shop this summer and even the pictures don't do it justice. This was one fine example of workmanship. The spehrical bushings (along w/ the additional caster over WL) should make the choice easier.
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Old 12-07-2003, 07:10 PM   #18
ellisnc
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I want one... where/when can we get it?
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Old 12-07-2003, 10:52 PM   #19
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If you compare the NVH from the Whiteline to ours (which i have experience with both), there will be more NVH with ours, but like i said its more like the big bumps you feel more than the going down the road noise. Its really hard to explain the difference, but since the WL product uses urethane, which is compliant, and our uses a spherical bearing that doens't flex, there will be more. But in my opinion, the NVH noise isn't bad like a Tien coil over setup. Not saying that a Tien coilover setup is bad at all.

Dan avo7,
I hope you don't think i was being harsh back to you, i just don't want people to think the wrong thing about a good product.
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Old 12-08-2003, 06:56 AM   #20
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When/where can we buy one?
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Old 12-08-2003, 08:18 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by dan avoN7
i'm never buying any perrin parts. They are way over priced and don't make any improvements over stock really. I was one of the first customers to install the perrin springs and they are just a cosmetically enhancing part. They are practically stock springs but give a drop, not stiff at all.

Don't you think it a little irresponsible to judge a manufacturer's entire product line based upon your perception of one product? I have found perrin's products to be only of the best in quality and workmanship and very strictly performance oriented, and expect no less from these parts. I am eagerly awaiting their release to the general public.
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Old 12-08-2003, 10:56 AM   #22
mick_the_ginge
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I installed the Perrin PSRS over the weekend but did not have access to my digital camera, so sorry, no pics. I'm getting an alignment done this morning and then I will write up a little bit about how they feel.

Install was pretty easy. The more aggressive angles that the PSRS create make it a little harder to get the wishbone bolt back in. I was told this is usual and could be expected with any ALK.

More to follow.
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Old 12-08-2003, 11:44 AM   #23
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This kit really looks great! I think the extra caster (you can never have too much!) plus the use of the bearing will give great results. I theorize, with my experience from all of the different Whiteline ALK's, that this kit will be pretty harsh on sharp edged impacts like expansion joints or Bott's Dots (reflectors) at low speed. I think it will provide all, if not more of the benefits of the Whiteline ALK. The only trade off, IMO, will be the aforementioned harshness compared to, say, the Whiteline comfort ALK.

Its great to see more options in this area of performance, especially in the higher end.
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Old 12-08-2003, 03:57 PM   #24
mick_the_ginge
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Alignment done. 4 degrees caster with the Perrin PSRS on a WRX wagon.

I do feel the bumps more, but the normal road driving I do not feel much difference. I did install a new front sway bar at the same time so I do not know how much is that and how much is the PSRS.

But my car does feel very positive.

Mick
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Old 12-08-2003, 11:18 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by mick_the_ginge
Alignment done. 4 degrees caster with the Perrin PSRS on a WRX wagon.

I do feel the bumps more, but the normal road driving I do not feel much difference. I did install a new front sway bar at the same time so I do not know how much is that and how much is the PSRS.

But my car does feel very positive.

Mick
Where'd you get it?
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