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Old 06-12-2000, 11:56 AM   #1
fast si
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Exclamation Honda Envy

I have spent my day here looking at your wonderful bulletin board. It is devoid of the things that plague other boards. But one thing I have noticed.

A lot of members here seem to have a condition called "Honda Envy". You all spend so much time comparing your cars to honda, you all must be huge honda fans. Face it, Subarus are not sports cars(here in the U.S. at least). Only one of them is a sporty car. Hondas in the US are not sports cars(save the ITR which gives such driving pleasure, that anyone who calls it anything else need only drive one). Quite a few of them are sporty cars. Civic Si's, Integra GS-R's and Preludes are all cars that will smoke any Subaru stock to stock. You all think your cars handle great. Wrong, they just have a lot of grip. Want to see an AWD car that handles? Get in a 1.8t A4. This car handles great, and has a smooth ride.

By the way, what was subaru thinking when they put the ej25 in the RS? What an engineering disappointment. 2.5 liters, 165 HP? And what the **** is up with the knocking on cold starts? ****, there is even a section in the manual devoted to it. No honda this side of 1980 has any such problem or warning. Face it. The RS sucks. I used to be a fan, until I rode/drove in them a few times.

American market Subarus are great cars for going camping and offroading to the campsite, but a sports car they are not.

I am sure this message will be followed up with numerous references to the WRX and 22B. Look at it this way. Honda has a performance model of every car they make either here or in Japan. Subaru has only the Impreza.

Subaru has a long way to go before they are even considered sporty as a company.
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:00 AM   #2
rsquire
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Post

TROLL TROLL TROLL

Richard
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:05 AM   #3
skidplatez
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I know I am fairly new to the boards. but please don't post follow ups to this I am sure he is reading and not posting just to watch what he started. I'm also sure that an si driver could never understand what it means to drive a subie.
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:05 AM   #4
fast si
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NOT A TROLL NOT A TROLL NOT A TROLL
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:05 AM   #5
ColinL
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Don't bother replying to this post besides to ask a moderator to remove it.
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:14 AM   #6
fast si
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Remove this post and you just prove how much it stung.

brucelee-
No actually I was speaking of a road course. I am in the Northern Virginia area and I will be glad to meet any of you up at Summit Point Raceway for a little lapping. I know from experience and the things I have seen there that I could turn in faster laps than any stock rs. You have too much suspension travel, and your car is too high from the ground. Maybe on a backwoods gravel road somewhere out there near the track (it is West Virginia) you could have a little revenge.

[This message has been edited by fast si (edited June 12, 2000).]
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:20 AM   #7
skidplatez
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So you are saying that you do race autocross in the stock class and you beat Impresa rs all the time? POST SOME RESULTS
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:23 AM   #8
SubieFL
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Nobody needs to lower themselves to the point of arguing or even bothering to have a dispute with once again another civic owner. I bet he believes he can beat a Porsche like in "Gone in Sixty Seconds", too. ..........hmmmmmmmm
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:25 AM   #9
SubieFL
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If you dislike Subarus so much how did you get to this website. Did you do a search for impreza or subaru or did you just type in the URL?
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:25 AM   #10
Strepto
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Thumbs down

wow, this is as bad as someone from this board posting ***** on a Honda board. Why bother starting a flame war? It's not worth it. Everybody feels differently about their cars. Fsat Si hates the RS, and many people on this board hate Hondas. To each his own!
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:27 AM   #11
fast si
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Sis and GS-Rs get around 12 to the wheels from an AEM intake, and we don't have to compensate for a now missing intake plenum(Minnam/S-afc-I read the article in SCC, too). No power in exhaust cause we already got pretty large piping for such a small engine. $1099 for a progress coilover suspension and 1.06Gs. More grip than any modified RS I know of, and better handling(less weight, more tossable, more comfortable at the limit).
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:27 AM   #12
8Complex

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BWHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHA!!!

You know... you're just another rice boy Honda driver. It's all about ego, right?

Well I've got a question for you since you seem to be on the other side of the fence... Why the f**k are all you idiots into drag racing your Hondas? If you have a car with a good weight/hp ratio you should NOT be drag racing it, you should be road racing or even autocrossing it.

And I've got news for you... I come in faster then any Honda there is at autocrosses unless they are in a modified class (ie: engine work, turbo, etc). That is including ITR's and Si's.

BTW, I was doing 90mph rallying down gravel roads in the country last night... what were you doing? Putting the sixteenth coat of wax on your car? Complaining about fingerprints?

P.S. - Yes, you are a troll. A troll is defined as someone that just posts something to get responses so that they are satisfied by getting attention - a truely rice boy thing to do.
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:28 AM   #13
SCOOBYSHAG
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Exclamation

Excuse me?

I smoke Si's right and left. Probably because the stereotype is correct about honda drivers....and how they SUCK! Wierd, Sport Compact Car got faster times with a 4-door RS then an Si. How?

As far as the handling issue: all I see on this board are reports from local autocrosses and how Imprezas AND Legacys kicked everyone's arse!

The 2.5 is an engineering dissapointment? Maybe that this is why JUN engineering prefers this motor to 2.0 for their Impreza, The fastest Impreza in the world. So I guess your going to say the 2.0 sucks also, right? Ask anyone from overseas and see if they say the same thing.

My Impreza has never knocked once, it is a 2000 and has 13000 miles on it.

Civics are only good for three things:
1.My girlfriend
2.Getting from point A to point B
3.Bigger motor swaps ie. 1.8 GSR ...notice all the "fast" civics are running the bigger 1.8 VTEC Integra motor with a turbo? Gee I wonder why!

Impreza is not the only performance model...have you heard of Legacy B4 RSK or Blitzen? STi versions of the Impreza wagon?
All honda does is put a typeR badge on everything they own and call it a "performance model" So, is there a performance model Odyssey?

Fast Si: show me a civic with a CIVIC motor in it that is fast, like in the 10's and I will be happy. Otherwise go away. Show me an Si in the 10's and I'll be happy, even though it is basically a Del Sol motor.

Until then...go away!




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Old 06-13-2000, 12:28 AM   #14
eugenekid
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Who realy cares? What does it matter? Or is this the way you all amuse yourselves. Both manufaturer's make fun cars to drive, but some people don't like either of them. "To each thier own", I hear people say that all the time. Leave it be!

[This message has been edited by eugenekid (edited June 12, 2000).]
 
Old 06-13-2000, 12:29 AM   #15
Formula1
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Lightbulb

Fast SI! obviously you know quite little, I have routinly spanked the **** out of Integra GS-R's and Civic SI's.....Have you ever rode in the vehicles that you preach about. There is no torgue what so ever. And the feel as if they are going to fall apart any second. Civic's are a joke in stock form, even if you boost it, it will blow up anytime, remember there is no substitute for displacement! If I run the same amount of boost as you do in your Honda, I will still have more HP and torque than you! I dont know what you have been smoking, but let me have some so I can say that my RS can spank a 911!

John
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:29 AM   #16
Greg I
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Post

Fast Si may be trolling a bit, but he does bring up some valid points.

Except the comment about the Audi 1.8T.

[edit] I've seen people comment about this recently, and the 1.8T is nowhere near as quick as an RS in a straight line; it's heavier, has less horsepower and torque. The 2.8 is a better match but in the end, it's a very close race.

Unfortunately, the Audi suffers from a similarily compliant suspension to a stock RS, and far less road feel. It's more of a touring car than anything else, and it really shows. Yes, much of it can be fixed with aftermarket modifications, but general steering feedback and such is an inherent part of the chassis design, and really, the A4 platform is well known for it's lack of personality and feel. The Sube truly is a better car from a driver's standpoint (and yes, I've driven then 1.8t with the sport suspension, been in a 2.8 quite a few times, and had my chance in a TT as well, just for Audi reference).

"Why do you think all these prelude, integra, si guys complain about the RS?"

Maybe because they are poor drivers and don't know how to extract performance from a FWD car? Maybe because they're sore losers. Who knows, all I can tell you is stock VS stock, the RS is comparable to a GS-R, a Prelude SH, and a Civic Si, but, under perfect circumstances, would most likely give up a few tenths on an autocross track to each of them for various reasons (not the least of which being the crap tires, the overly compliant suspension system, and the relative lack of horsepower).

I don't get it. Why do some car owners have to insist that what they have is better than everything else when it absolutely isn't? The Civic Si is a fine car, but in the end, it's no ITR, and it fails to excel in any one area to the point of making it particularly interesting. It's not really a driver's car in the true sense of the word. It also doesn't have the ultimate potential of an RS...

This is all kind of sad. None of these cars are even very FAST -- just somewhat quick. The Integra Type-R is the fastest, but even it doesn't stand a chance against a real sports car (in the price range, a Gen III RX-7, for example). Pissing contests suck, as do people who fail to look at facts and simply base their opinions on what they'd LIKE to believe and on some sort of emotional attachment (or hatred) for car X or car Y.



Greg.

[This message has been edited by Greg I (edited June 12, 2000).]
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:29 AM   #17
AWDriver
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Post

This guy doesn't like Subarus. Good to know. Oh, and he doesn't think my car's a sports car. I think it is. He doesn't.

I love my Scooby. It's fast and fun on the roads I drive each day. Other import 4 bangers can also be fast and fun, and none of them will "smoke" any of the others. Modern cars are amazingly competent pieces of machinery, and I love them all!
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:29 AM   #18
Sean
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Exclamation

WTF? Every car has a purpose. No one can say that one single car is perfect for everything. Hondas/Acuras will kick Subarus stock to stock under certain conditions. Subarus will kick Hondas/Acuras stock to stock under certain conditions. It's not worth arguing about. On paper, people can say anything they want and twist statistics to suit anyone. They can also say that they saw their one friend beat someone, therefore the car their friend drove will always beat that other car.

Not the case. I see where this might go. Flat out, Hondas/Acuras have their pros and cons. Subarus have their pros and cons. Personally, I respect both vehicles. This message did hit a nerve. Let's see how many people actually respond calmly instead of just proving his point even further by flaming him...

Sean Sosik-Hamor < ssh@shn.nu >
Sosik-Hamor Networks Project Subaru
Epinions Automotive Reviews by `Sean
Dmoz Subaru Index by `Sean
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:29 AM   #19
Ryouga
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Strepto: Well put, man. Haven't seen you post here in a while. Is that 'cause you haven't been posting, or is it because I haven't been reading the right threads?

Wow. Can't believe so many people hit "Submit Now" at the same time I did (well, a little before I did since they all beat me).

[This message has been edited by Ryouga (edited June 12, 2000).]
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:30 AM   #20
8Complex

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Just FYI, I have a 2000 RS and I don't have to add an S-AFC to my car to get it to run right with an intake.

1.06Gs? I hope you don't mean that you can pull that on the skidpad cause I know for a fact it isn't so. Unless you have significant downforce you can't pull over 1.0G's on a skidpad because that is the laws of physics.
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:32 AM   #21
Geoff
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There hasn't been a single person who's driven/ridden in my Outback Sport (wagon) that hasn't thought that the "sport" name in it made sense. This includes my brother-in-law who's got an Integra GSR and a coworker with a Jackson Racing Supercharged GSR with some Type-R mods. I let the previously mentioned coworker read your post, and he just laughed. I don't have anything against Hondas or their owners, but I honestly think the "my car is better than your car" bit is a bit tired. Almost every day my coworker and I engage in discussions regarding tuning our cars. He knows I'd blow him away in a quarter mile run, however he DOES have me on the high end. Different cars for different people.

In closing, you must feel pretty insecure about your own vehicle to post about its supposed "superiority" on a Bulletin Board dedicated to people who like to make their "camping cars" hang with, or even dust Honda's "sporty" or "sports" cars.

BTW, my "GSR Coworker" laughed when he saw your online name. I didn't, as I believe it is your right to remain as deluded as you wish.
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:32 AM   #22
fast si
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I like subarus, just not the one you guys have. Why should I? It is slow, and it doesn't handle very well. It looks good, but not when you consider that every body tack-on is useless in the US. even that wing. Your speedo goes to 120, for god sakes! what would you ever need that much wing for?
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:35 AM   #23
Andre Vandenberg
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Wink

Honda will be the first to admit that they are engine builders first and foremost. They only build cars and motorcycles to sell their engines. I will be the first to admit that they build damn good motors, and as a former Honda / Acura owner, I can tell you that their cars are great FWD cars. I have not found a Honda or Acura that puts a smile on my face like my Suby 2.2 RS Turbo does..... Not EVEN the NSX....
Hondas are great cars for the masses.
Subys are for car enthusiasts.
In other words; Honda’s are like ********, everyone’s got one, and most of em stinks…..Except for mine and yours of course
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:36 AM   #24
skidplatez
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Fast Si when are you going to post your Autox times that show you spanking Impresa rs in the stock class??? LOL

sorry autox means auto-cross as in the ameteur racing sponsored by scca

[This message has been edited by skidplatez (edited June 12, 2000).]
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Old 06-13-2000, 12:36 AM   #25
8Complex

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Even more points to crush...

FYI, all my vents and scoops are perfectly functional. Want me to prove it? Come on up and I'll show you.

Oh and my cold air intake cost me approx. nothing, how about yours?

The wing is also a styling thing, though it does help in performance above 120mph (of which I have traveled at several times).

BTW, the reason you think it is slow is probably because it was driven by a Honda driver when you rode in it. Ride with a real driver of an RS and you'll be surprised.
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