top RS in GS 27th in Topeka?

El Kabong · 09-13-2000, 08:21 AM

http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/20...lts/page8.html

Ouch... but if you remove all the ITR's, he'd probably be in 4th or 5th...

Snoopy · 09-13-2000, 08:24 AM

I know that the SCCA have Eric Krimelmier as their top pick to win in his class at the nationals. He has a suspension tuned Impreza running on Kumho tires.

8Complex · 09-13-2000, 08:35 AM

You know, now that I think about it, that might be a good thing since they've been thinking of kicking the Impreza's out of Touring since they rule too much. Well I know it isn't touring, but it proves they can be beaten by something else in it's own class, granted the ITR has the Torsen-type LSD so it can't play in STS, but it's still at the same level, IMO.

kelley nelson · 09-13-2000, 10:52 AM

But that is in the stock class. I think the Type R is a much better choice for GS given the weight, powertrain, and the Torsen. With the sticky tires allowed in GS, traction is not as much of a problem as it is in STS where the tires are not as grippy.

Now in STS, I think the scooby really is only challenged by the Neon. You can see it in the results from the ProSolo nats:

1 Steve Wynne 95 Plymouth Neon L
2 3 Peter David Smit98 Dodge Neon R/T
3 9 Eric Kriemelmeye99 Subaru Impreza
4 19 George Perinis 99 Subaru Impreza
5 7 Richard West 99 Subaru Impreza
6 8 G. Walter Hahn 98 Dodge Neon ASR

Now, this was with Eric having car troubles. We will see what happens tomorrow when STS runs in the Solo II nats. This is what the SEB uses to classify cars. This is also an important part of calculating the PAX factor.

[This message has been edited by kelley nelson (edited September 13, 2000).]

El Kabong · 09-13-2000, 02:16 PM

Final results are in. Fauth takes GS in his ITR... this is the guy from my region... Lots of Colorado people are doing well. I guess having that extra HP at sea-level is helping...

So far drivers from the Colorado region have won ESP, ESPL, GS and FSP. I guess I have no excuse as far as learning from some good drivers... hopefully it'll rub off.

Top Subaru in GS is Chris Fleming at #25.

ColinL · 09-13-2000, 02:39 PM

Actually that is correct, there is no shortage of nationally competitive drivers from Colorado.

JJTheSubeDriver · 09-13-2000, 07:45 PM

[LONG POST WARNING!!!]

Who else here would be pissed if they removed Subies from STS and STR? What a bunch of freaking bull****. I heard about this first at the national tour in Colorado Springs. So what, you are going to reclass a car because it appears at the top of a class? If you do it to one, do it to the others!!!

Ok, so now I propose we reclass these vehicles:

ITR- From GS into something else, maybe DS, AS, etc

Talon and Eclipse GSX Turbo AWD- same as above

M3- get them out of ESP!! Those poor pony car folks just can't drive well enough to compete with Bob.

Little do they know that Bob can beat most people freaking riding a tricycle around the course

Neon- Consistently winning DS.

Miata- Ditto in BS.

CP- Damn those Stangs!

DSP- Those Fiats have got to go!

MR2- Those need to be reclassed, they win all the time in CS.

Damn those new celicas in ES!!

This is just my personal opionion, which some of it based on our local region here. What are my options if the kick me out of STS? Take off the mods and run GS? I dont think so

Spend at least 2 grand in suspension and tires to be even competitive in DSP? Kiss my ass!!

Let the other cars in ST have LSD's for all I care, just don't outlaw our Subies!

I had to vent and also take a comical stab at all of this "that car beat me so reclass it" crap.

JJ

ImprezaRS dot com · 09-13-2000, 07:49 PM

Whoah! I think Chas taught you to drink a little too much of that Red Bull!

Larry www.ImprezaRS.com

dch · 09-13-2000, 08:10 PM

At the Mangey Moose in Jackson Hole, they sell a drink called an "Uprising", which is Red Bull (energy drink) and Vodka. 4 of those and you're not sure if you want to pass out or take a few laps around the parking lot... My bartender friends (gotta have bartender friends!) call them an "Instant A-hole" as they have a tendancy to bring out the worst in some people. Also you have to appreciate a drink called a "Pile Driver" for the older crowd- vodka & prune juice

Uhm, there was no point to this, and it's definitely not on the topic and I don't mean to imply anything about jj. I was just rambling since Larry mentioned Red Bull (but I bet he meant the malt liquor). I'll leave now.

-Doug

edit: no need to put my name on there twice I guess

[This message has been edited by dch (edited September 13, 2000).]

Patrick L · 09-13-2000, 08:12 PM

The track setup was more like a road course than a SoloII track. That is why the ITR did so well in G-Stock. Now if there were tighter turns, that would slow the cars down. Than it would have been a different story. The course that G-stock ran on today was a 3rd gear track in one maybe two places for the Scoobies. I think SCCA screwed up on the courses. There were too many big turns.

I have to say. It was nice to meet other SoloII racers from around the country.
That sucks about Eric, who blew a MAF on the way to Topeka.

Man, I wish I had more time. Than I would have been able to make it to the Nationals and run in STS.

JJTheSubeDriver · 09-13-2000, 08:38 PM

Larry: HAHAHAHAHA!!

Actually, Red Bull does have some effect on my driving and I'm glad Chas let me in on the secret

Now, Red Bull and Vodka? Yuk!

dch- oh yeah sure you weren't implying anything

I was just trying to make a point and be humorous about it at the same time.

JJ

[This message has been edited by JJTheSubeDriver (edited September 13, 2000).]

ColinL · 09-13-2000, 08:46 PM

There are requirements, described in the SCCA rulebooks, for divisional and national courses and compared to MOST regional events these rules make courses pretty wide open, pretty fast.

Some divisional and national courses are even faster -- we ran a course at the middiv Wichita divisional (relocated to Salina) called the Lone Star and it was damned fast. I was never below 3000 rpm in 2nd and crossed the finish line over 5000 or even 5500 rpm in 3rd.

Some regions are fortunate enough to have large enough lots available and designers who never want to see a 1st gear corner, and divisional / national courses are "normal" to them.

Gary (gg) · 09-13-2000, 09:13 PM

I just got back from Topeka earlier this evening. I finished 29th out of 46, Chris Fleming finsihed 25th. It was crowded with the all time high attendance, roughly 1100+ competitors. Richard West ended up running DSP because he did not want to stay all week long and planned to leave Thursday. I think he finished 17th out of 25. He was running his old legacy setup tire-wise 225/50R16 in the front and 205/55R16 in the rear on BFG Comp TA R1's whereas I was running BFG G-Force R1's with the 245/45R16 on the front and 225/50R16 in the back. BFG did not show up at the Nationals, what a shame. I parked in the paddock with Eric and Richard and it was interesting to see each others setup. I had my Nexus tires stacked next to Eric's 225/45R16 Kuhmos and guess what? The 205 Nexus were exactly as tall as the 225 Kuhmos, that is why everyone claims that they fit without any rubbing. Eric chose to run the 205 for the ProSolo because he felt that they were faster than the 225's. The extra width of the 225 were negated by the extra width of the center groove on the 712's. Richard ran on the AVS Sport, 205/55R16. I will let him tell his side of the story. And Eric and others can tell their experience when they return.
The south course was a horsepower course. The slalom at the north side was just over 100' apart! I entered the slalom in 2nd, floored, shifted into 3rd and could have used a lot more power. Essentially, the south course had 2 areas that was 3rd gear and had a lot of sweepers where my RS just could not carve the corners. I was 2 second down after the day one.
The north course favored the Type R's, technical and 2nd gear for our cars. I ended up disconnecting the front sway bar to make the RS carve the sweepers at the risk of having slower transitions for the slalom. The trick worked for me as I moved up one position from 30th to 29th, 3 sec back on day 2 for a total of 5 seconds down to the winner in a Type R, there was at least 20 of them. The RS did carve the corners in the sweeper better and I could apply the power earlier. I think I would have slipped further back without this trick. I worked a corner with 2 Type R drivers and they were talking about the next one, a Type S and mentioned that all the Hondas crowd with Type R badges would have to buy new ones with an S on it. The next one should have 220 hp, 2.0 liter with a 6 speed. The highlight for my weekend was at the National warmup, on Sat I won GS out of 7 cars on my 4 year old Yokohama A008RS tires. The RS seemed more tossable on the Topeka surface with those than the BFG's I used during the Nationals. On Sun, I was 4th out of 6 with more of the big guns from the ProSolo showing up later on. There was all sorts of cars conceivable, the largest carshow in the Midwest. Before I left, I helped Eric put on his Kartboy rear swaybar endlinks and wished the other RS drivers in STS good luck.

ColinL · 09-13-2000, 09:40 PM

Wow, you finally let the cat out of the bag about the 245/45-16 BFG's up front.

Did you try decreasing the front strut damping before disconnecting the front swaybar? The car should have been very tailhappy with the rear struts at 8 and the front at 1 or 2 and should have rolled less than disconnecting the swaybar.

The nose also would have dove harder during braking, which may or may not have helped depending on what ABS was attempting to do.

ColinL · 09-14-2000, 04:42 PM

Day 1 is done in STS. Eric K. is in 2nd, behind Brian Priebe a former national champ.

Brian's 98 2.5RS is running BFG tires. I wonder what those could be? 205/50-17 BFG g-force KD?

Chris F · 09-14-2000, 07:08 PM

Well, it took 7 hours to get back to Texas and I'm dead! We had a good week of A/Xing. I feel like I let the car down, on each days first runs I looked at al the times and said "I can hang with these guys" Of course they got faster on subsequent runs and I slowed down. Let me tell you that is Very aggrivating!! I feel that I could have done much better. As far as STS goes I talked to some members of the SEB and they told me that there are NO plans to remove the Impreza from STS. Good news for all the STSers. One thing I noticed, there really where not a whole bunch of Subies at the Nats., I expected to see a bunch.

kelley nelson · 09-14-2000, 07:32 PM

I wanted to go and round out the bottom of the class, but damn that whole career thing. Next year

Gary (gg) · 09-14-2000, 08:13 PM

Colin, I used a CSP Honda trick. I'd like to experiment with different strut settings but the surface at Topeka is not like anything we run in Wichita or Salina. The closest in terms of grip is like WGP on a hot day, slippery. I agree with Chris F on the fustration of not moving up after each run. Well, I parked in the paddock with Eric, Chris and Richard so I think the word would get out about me running those. The 245's do rub the spring perch on the driver's side but not the passenger side, has more clearance in the front with those than the 225/50's in the rear. Brian and his dad Ralph drove virtually identical setup in 98 RS's. They were using the 205/50R17 BFG G-Force KD on 7x17 Team Loco wheels, SPT struts and springs, which basically are KYB AGX and Eibach springs, Bosal catback exhaust.

[This message has been edited by Gary (gg) (edited September 14, 2000).]

09-13-2000, 08:21 AM	#1
El Kabong Scooby Newbie Member#: 625 Join Date: Dec 1999 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Austin, TX Vehicle: 2005 STi WRB/Gold	top RS in GS 27th in Topeka? http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/20...lts/page8.html Ouch... but if you remove all the ITR's, he'd probably be in 4th or 5th...

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09-13-2000, 08:24 AM	#2
Snoopy Scooby Specialist Member#: 700 Join Date: Jan 2000 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: BANNED! Vehicle: 99 Impreza RS Silverthorn Metallic	I know that the SCCA have Eric Krimelmier as their top pick to win in his class at the nationals. He has a suspension tuned Impreza running on Kumho tires.

09-13-2000, 08:35 AM	#3
8Complex Moderator Member#: 922 Join Date: Feb 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Schaumburg, IL Vehicle: 04 FXT Red	You know, now that I think about it, that might be a good thing since they've been thinking of kicking the Impreza's out of Touring since they rule too much. Well I know it isn't touring, but it proves they can be beaten by something else in it's own class, granted the ITR has the Torsen-type LSD so it can't play in STS, but it's still at the same level, IMO.

09-13-2000, 10:52 AM	#4
kelley nelson NASIOC Supporter Member#: 135 Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: NJ	But that is in the stock class. I think the Type R is a much better choice for GS given the weight, powertrain, and the Torsen. With the sticky tires allowed in GS, traction is not as much of a problem as it is in STS where the tires are not as grippy. Now in STS, I think the scooby really is only challenged by the Neon. You can see it in the results from the ProSolo nats: 1 Steve Wynne 95 Plymouth Neon L 2 3 Peter David Smit98 Dodge Neon R/T 3 9 Eric Kriemelmeye99 Subaru Impreza 4 19 George Perinis 99 Subaru Impreza 5 7 Richard West 99 Subaru Impreza 6 8 G. Walter Hahn 98 Dodge Neon ASR Now, this was with Eric having car troubles. We will see what happens tomorrow when STS runs in the Solo II nats. This is what the SEB uses to classify cars. This is also an important part of calculating the PAX factor. [This message has been edited by kelley nelson (edited September 13, 2000).]

09-13-2000, 02:16 PM	#5
El Kabong Scooby Newbie Member#: 625 Join Date: Dec 1999 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Austin, TX Vehicle: 2005 STi WRB/Gold	Final results are in. Fauth takes GS in his ITR... this is the guy from my region... Lots of Colorado people are doing well. I guess having that extra HP at sea-level is helping... So far drivers from the Colorado region have won ESP, ESPL, GS and FSP. I guess I have no excuse as far as learning from some good drivers... hopefully it'll rub off. Top Subaru in GS is Chris Fleming at #25.

09-13-2000, 02:39 PM	#6
ColinL Scooby Guru Member#: 114 Join Date: Jul 1999 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Wichita, KS and Whoring, OT Vehicle: '03 Evo, Rice White '01 Erion CBR 929	Actually that is correct, there is no shortage of nationally competitive drivers from Colorado.

09-13-2000, 07:45 PM	#7
JJTheSubeDriver Scooby Specialist Member#: 391 Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: The land of many Subies Vehicle: 2004 STi Blue/Gold 2000 RS BRP	[LONG POST WARNING!!!] Who else here would be pissed if they removed Subies from STS and STR? What a bunch of freaking bull****. I heard about this first at the national tour in Colorado Springs. So what, you are going to reclass a car because it appears at the top of a class? If you do it to one, do it to the others!!! Ok, so now I propose we reclass these vehicles: ITR- From GS into something else, maybe DS, AS, etc Talon and Eclipse GSX Turbo AWD- same as above M3- get them out of ESP!! Those poor pony car folks just can't drive well enough to compete with Bob. Little do they know that Bob can beat most people freaking riding a tricycle around the course Neon- Consistently winning DS. Miata- Ditto in BS. CP- Damn those Stangs! DSP- Those Fiats have got to go! MR2- Those need to be reclassed, they win all the time in CS. Damn those new celicas in ES!! This is just my personal opionion, which some of it based on our local region here. What are my options if the kick me out of STS? Take off the mods and run GS? I dont think so Spend at least 2 grand in suspension and tires to be even competitive in DSP? Kiss my ass!! Let the other cars in ST have LSD's for all I care, just don't outlaw our Subies! I had to vent and also take a comical stab at all of this "that car beat me so reclass it" crap. JJ

09-13-2000, 07:49 PM	#8
ImprezaRS dot com over boosted again Moderator Member#: 1458 Join Date: May 2000 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: Colorado Springs CO USA Vehicle: 2006 B9 Tribeca LTD 2005 Impreza 2.5 RS	Whoah! I think Chas taught you to drink a little too much of that Red Bull! Larry www.ImprezaRS.com

09-13-2000, 08:10 PM	#9
dch Scooby Specialist Member#: 1057 Join Date: Mar 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Minneapolis, MN Vehicle: 2004 WRX STi Very Yellow	At the Mangey Moose in Jackson Hole, they sell a drink called an "Uprising", which is Red Bull (energy drink) and Vodka. 4 of those and you're not sure if you want to pass out or take a few laps around the parking lot... My bartender friends (gotta have bartender friends!) call them an "Instant A-hole" as they have a tendancy to bring out the worst in some people. Also you have to appreciate a drink called a "Pile Driver" for the older crowd- vodka & prune juice Uhm, there was no point to this, and it's definitely not on the topic and I don't mean to imply anything about jj. I was just rambling since Larry mentioned Red Bull (but I bet he meant the malt liquor). I'll leave now. -Doug edit: no need to put my name on there twice I guess [This message has been edited by dch (edited September 13, 2000).]

09-13-2000, 08:12 PM	#10
Patrick L Scooby Specialist Member#: 634 Join Date: Dec 1999 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Tulsa, OK Vehicle: 2000 Impreza 2.5RS Becasue ITS racecar	The track setup was more like a road course than a SoloII track. That is why the ITR did so well in G-Stock. Now if there were tighter turns, that would slow the cars down. Than it would have been a different story. The course that G-stock ran on today was a 3rd gear track in one maybe two places for the Scoobies. I think SCCA screwed up on the courses. There were too many big turns. I have to say. It was nice to meet other SoloII racers from around the country. That sucks about Eric, who blew a MAF on the way to Topeka. Man, I wish I had more time. Than I would have been able to make it to the Nationals and run in STS.

09-13-2000, 08:38 PM	#11
JJTheSubeDriver Scooby Specialist Member#: 391 Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: The land of many Subies Vehicle: 2004 STi Blue/Gold 2000 RS BRP	Larry: HAHAHAHAHA!! Actually, Red Bull does have some effect on my driving and I'm glad Chas let me in on the secret Now, Red Bull and Vodka? Yuk! dch- oh yeah sure you weren't implying anything I was just trying to make a point and be humorous about it at the same time. JJ [This message has been edited by JJTheSubeDriver (edited September 13, 2000).]

09-13-2000, 08:46 PM	#12
ColinL Scooby Guru Member#: 114 Join Date: Jul 1999 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Wichita, KS and Whoring, OT Vehicle: '03 Evo, Rice White '01 Erion CBR 929	There are requirements, described in the SCCA rulebooks, for divisional and national courses and compared to MOST regional events these rules make courses pretty wide open, pretty fast. Some divisional and national courses are even faster -- we ran a course at the middiv Wichita divisional (relocated to Salina) called the Lone Star and it was damned fast. I was never below 3000 rpm in 2nd and crossed the finish line over 5000 or even 5500 rpm in 3rd. Some regions are fortunate enough to have large enough lots available and designers who never want to see a 1st gear corner, and divisional / national courses are "normal" to them.

09-13-2000, 09:13 PM	#13
Gary (gg) Scooby Newbie Member#: 179 Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Wichita, KS Vehicle: 98 2.5RS Rally Blue	I just got back from Topeka earlier this evening. I finished 29th out of 46, Chris Fleming finsihed 25th. It was crowded with the all time high attendance, roughly 1100+ competitors. Richard West ended up running DSP because he did not want to stay all week long and planned to leave Thursday. I think he finished 17th out of 25. He was running his old legacy setup tire-wise 225/50R16 in the front and 205/55R16 in the rear on BFG Comp TA R1's whereas I was running BFG G-Force R1's with the 245/45R16 on the front and 225/50R16 in the back. BFG did not show up at the Nationals, what a shame. I parked in the paddock with Eric and Richard and it was interesting to see each others setup. I had my Nexus tires stacked next to Eric's 225/45R16 Kuhmos and guess what? The 205 Nexus were exactly as tall as the 225 Kuhmos, that is why everyone claims that they fit without any rubbing. Eric chose to run the 205 for the ProSolo because he felt that they were faster than the 225's. The extra width of the 225 were negated by the extra width of the center groove on the 712's. Richard ran on the AVS Sport, 205/55R16. I will let him tell his side of the story. And Eric and others can tell their experience when they return. The south course was a horsepower course. The slalom at the north side was just over 100' apart! I entered the slalom in 2nd, floored, shifted into 3rd and could have used a lot more power. Essentially, the south course had 2 areas that was 3rd gear and had a lot of sweepers where my RS just could not carve the corners. I was 2 second down after the day one. The north course favored the Type R's, technical and 2nd gear for our cars. I ended up disconnecting the front sway bar to make the RS carve the sweepers at the risk of having slower transitions for the slalom. The trick worked for me as I moved up one position from 30th to 29th, 3 sec back on day 2 for a total of 5 seconds down to the winner in a Type R, there was at least 20 of them. The RS did carve the corners in the sweeper better and I could apply the power earlier. I think I would have slipped further back without this trick. I worked a corner with 2 Type R drivers and they were talking about the next one, a Type S and mentioned that all the Hondas crowd with Type R badges would have to buy new ones with an S on it. The next one should have 220 hp, 2.0 liter with a 6 speed. The highlight for my weekend was at the National warmup, on Sat I won GS out of 7 cars on my 4 year old Yokohama A008RS tires. The RS seemed more tossable on the Topeka surface with those than the BFG's I used during the Nationals. On Sun, I was 4th out of 6 with more of the big guns from the ProSolo showing up later on. There was all sorts of cars conceivable, the largest carshow in the Midwest. Before I left, I helped Eric put on his Kartboy rear swaybar endlinks and wished the other RS drivers in STS good luck.

09-13-2000, 09:40 PM	#14
ColinL Scooby Guru Member#: 114 Join Date: Jul 1999 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Wichita, KS and Whoring, OT Vehicle: '03 Evo, Rice White '01 Erion CBR 929	Wow, you finally let the cat out of the bag about the 245/45-16 BFG's up front. Did you try decreasing the front strut damping before disconnecting the front swaybar? The car should have been very tailhappy with the rear struts at 8 and the front at 1 or 2 and should have rolled less than disconnecting the swaybar. The nose also would have dove harder during braking, which may or may not have helped depending on what ABS was attempting to do.

09-14-2000, 04:42 PM	#15
ColinL Scooby Guru Member#: 114 Join Date: Jul 1999 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Wichita, KS and Whoring, OT Vehicle: '03 Evo, Rice White '01 Erion CBR 929	Day 1 is done in STS. Eric K. is in 2nd, behind Brian Priebe a former national champ. Brian's 98 2.5RS is running BFG tires. I wonder what those could be? 205/50-17 BFG g-force KD?

09-14-2000, 07:08 PM	#16
Chris F Scooby Newbie Member#: 494 Join Date: Nov 1999 Chapter/Region: TXIC Location: Plano,tx USA Vehicle: 2008 EVO X Silver	Well, it took 7 hours to get back to Texas and I'm dead! We had a good week of A/Xing. I feel like I let the car down, on each days first runs I looked at al the times and said "I can hang with these guys" Of course they got faster on subsequent runs and I slowed down. Let me tell you that is Very aggrivating!! I feel that I could have done much better. As far as STS goes I talked to some members of the SEB and they told me that there are NO plans to remove the Impreza from STS. Good news for all the STSers. One thing I noticed, there really where not a whole bunch of Subies at the Nats., I expected to see a bunch.

09-14-2000, 07:32 PM	#17
kelley nelson NASIOC Supporter Member#: 135 Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: NJ	I wanted to go and round out the bottom of the class, but damn that whole career thing. Next year

09-14-2000, 08:13 PM	#18
Gary (gg) Scooby Newbie Member#: 179 Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Wichita, KS Vehicle: 98 2.5RS Rally Blue	Colin, I used a CSP Honda trick. I'd like to experiment with different strut settings but the surface at Topeka is not like anything we run in Wichita or Salina. The closest in terms of grip is like WGP on a hot day, slippery. I agree with Chris F on the fustration of not moving up after each run. Well, I parked in the paddock with Eric, Chris and Richard so I think the word would get out about me running those. The 245's do rub the spring perch on the driver's side but not the passenger side, has more clearance in the front with those than the 225/50's in the rear. Brian and his dad Ralph drove virtually identical setup in 98 RS's. They were using the 205/50R17 BFG G-Force KD on 7x17 Team Loco wheels, SPT struts and springs, which basically are KYB AGX and Eibach springs, Bosal catback exhaust. [This message has been edited by Gary (gg) (edited September 14, 2000).]