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Old 01-19-2004, 01:41 PM   #1
trustWRX
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Default Injen Posted dyno results for their CAI run on a 2004 WRX

I posted about the CAI a while back and how it gave gains about 10HP but all I got was flak from people. Injen has now officially posted dyno results for their RD1200 CAI for the 2004 WRX. Here are the results.

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Old 01-19-2004, 01:47 PM   #2
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What's your point? As I remember the Injen CAI changes the MAF diameter. This leans out the a/f mixture and will obviously show gains. These gains are for the most part not from an increase of flow but rather the leaning effect.

-- Ed
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Old 01-19-2004, 01:50 PM   #3
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My point is people kept saying "10HP yah right..more like 3-5". This is proof that it IS 10HP. The topic isnt the leaning out or MAF. The topic is "see? it is 10HP gain".
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Old 01-19-2004, 01:57 PM   #4
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wow this guy is just begging to argue with someone about this. I can tell what this thread will turn in to.
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Old 01-19-2004, 02:05 PM   #5
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I can purchase a MBC and turn the boost way up for 50 bucks and get way more hp than that, but are either of these things a good idea? Not really, no.


Thanks for sharing though
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Old 01-19-2004, 02:31 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by LotusDrift
I can purchase a MBC and turn the boost way up for 50 bucks and get way more hp than that, but are either of these things a good idea? Not really, no.
or just disconnect the wastegate vacume line.. more power yes ..
just not worth it at any price .. unless you own your own dyno, have a copy of ecutek and FWIH 3 hrs worth of tuning

read this
http://www.ecutek.com/tuning/induction/
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Old 01-19-2004, 06:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by trustWRX
My point is people kept saying "10HP yah right..more like 3-5". This is proof that it IS 10HP. The topic isnt the leaning out or MAF. The topic is "see? it is 10HP gain".
you ARE NOT listening to reason, when you install the MAF in anything but the stock airbox configuration all you are doing is making the computer see LESS air which means LESS fuel... less fuel is GREAT if it's tuned out with a wideband 02 and you know your Air/Fuel ratio is within safe specs, however just slapping on a CAI (*** DO THEY CALL IT A CAI WHEN IT'S AIR THATS GOING TO GET COMPRESSED(HOT) ANYWAY GAY)....

summary: removing fuel adds power, but possibly at the cost of removing the engine soon for that precious 10hp, there's lots of ways to add reliable power, this isn't one without an immediate tune which in some cases give minute gains over the stock airbox

things like this give good reason to get raped at the dealer for a bran new ride versus a used abused i wanted to go faster so i cranked everything up not knowing what i was going ghetto blaster
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Old 01-19-2004, 10:02 PM   #8
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People, he's doing EXACTLY what people always bitch about; he's backing up his claims with quantitative data. If he had said "Injen intakes push 10 more horsepower to the wheels", you'd bite his head off with cries of "PROVE IT, PROVE IT!!". 2 or 3 of you might tell him to do a search.

He's just doing his homework and proving his point. He makes NO claim as to wether or not the Injen Intake system is a good mod, or a safe one... he SIMPLY said

Quote:
Originally posted by trustWRX
I posted about the CAI a while back and how it gave gains about 10HP but all I got was flak from people. Injen has now officially posted dyno results for their RD1200 CAI for the 2004 WRX. Here are the results.

[
You guys usually praise people who bring factual proof to the forums... back off!
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Old 01-19-2004, 10:29 PM   #9
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ture. you go boy hahaha
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Old 01-19-2004, 10:30 PM   #10
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ahem...."true"
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Old 01-19-2004, 11:28 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by overdose
CAI (*** DO THEY CALL IT A CAI WHEN IT'S AIR THATS GOING TO GET COMPRESSED(HOT) ANYWAY GAY)....

Sorry to rant again... but WRX's aren't the olny cars on the market with cold-air intakes made for them... Their name comes from the air they draw in, nothing more.

CAI's earn their name by drawing in cold air for the engine to burn. But wait... what does cold mean? If you live in Texas and draw in 105degree air... that ain't too cold compared to the 15degree air I've got in Newport News tonight. No Sally, the cold reference is to air that's NOT heated by the engine! Most CAI's draw air from a fenderwell or some other heat-secluded area (An area seperated from the main engine bay by a piece of frame or other significant scrap of metal.)

(*** DO THEY CALL IT A CAI WHEN IT'S AIR THATS GOING TO GET COMPRESSED(HOT) ANYWAY GAY)....

That's why...

And what's with the "Gay" thrown in there at the end??
You want Gay?? Commere...
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Old 01-19-2004, 11:38 PM   #12
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let me try again..

fine it makes more power...but don't buy one

10 hp from a safe mod = good
0.1 hp from a unsafe mod (injen) = bad

this mod has some real risks espically if the owner continues to mod the car

sell your intake, save your $$ and get an access ecu reflash
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Old 01-20-2004, 12:27 PM   #13
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I already have an Injen CAI and Injen Catback now. In February Injen is releasing their downpipe. Once I get that installed I qualify for a level 2 ECU flash from COBB.

I spoke to Craig @ COBB already and asked him about the intake. He said they already have maps for a Injen Turboback and Injen intake. He said if the intake was causing a lean condition from the mass air flow the maps would compensate for them.

I'm going with the handheld flasher through COBB so I don't have to send my ECU in to them.

So please stop worrying about my lean condition
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Old 01-20-2004, 12:30 PM   #14
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Here is a simple fact.
You CANNOT trust dyno results that come from the manufacturer of the product that the dyno test was for.
There are tons of ways to manipulate things to make the dyno show pretty much any gain you want.
That chart also doesnt show wideband 02 readings, which means there is absolutely no proof the 10hp isnt coming from a dangerously lean mixture.


Go away n00b
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Old 01-20-2004, 12:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by trustWRX
I already have an Injen CAI and Injen Catback now. In February Injen is releasing their downpipe. Once I get that installed I qualify for a level 2 ECU flash from COBB.

I spoke to Craig @ COBB already and asked him about the intake. He said they already have maps for a Injen Turboback and Injen intake. He said if the intake was causing a lean condition from the mass air flow the maps would compensate for them.

I'm going with the handheld flasher through COBB so I don't have to send my ECU in to them.

So please stop worrying about my lean condition
Sounds good, but I think the kind of dyno plot we need that would be proof of a cai benefits would be after it was tuned for...

We are saying that after tunining it will present almost no gains, while prior to tuning it will have gains but be dangerous for the car. (all the same things that have been said since day 1)
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Old 01-20-2004, 12:49 PM   #16
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Lotus,

That is exactly what Craig @ COBB said. He said after ECU tuning the CAI would probably make little to no gains whatsoever so you got credit with me for knowing what you're talking about. I just like the sound of the CAI and am going to keep it in there for the heck of it unless I can find a U-shaped piping that can lead the stock grill intake pipe and wrap it around the fender well and back to the stock airbox. I dont wanna do some Mickey Mouse duct tape job. If a U-shaped manufactured piping existed I may put the stock airbox back in with a K&N drop in instead.

Oh yah Dave? Your member number is not less than 10,000 so dont call me a noob you semi-noob.
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Old 01-20-2004, 12:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by trustWRX
Lotus,

That is exactly what Craig @ COBB said. He said after ECU tuning the CAI would probably make little to no gains whatsoever so you got credit with me for knowing what you're talking about. I just like the sound of the CAI and am going to keep it in there for the heck of it unless I can find a U-shaped piping that can lead the stock grill intake pipe and wrap it around the fender well and back to the stock airbox. I dont wanna do some Mickey Mouse duct tape job. If a U-shaped manufactured piping existed I may put the stock airbox back in with a K&N drop in instead.

Oh yah Dave? Your member number is not less than 10,000 so dont call me a noob you semi-noob.
Ask and you shall recieve...

Check this out


Regards,
Ashley
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Old 01-20-2004, 12:55 PM   #18
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I think anyone that uses the word n00b seriously borders on rediculous and immature anyways, so I wouldn't waste your time with that....


Thats fine if you like it, same can be said for BOVs and a number of things people on this board enjoy to have on their cars. Not a big deal, I just want people to be informed before they do it. Also I think a lot of people (including me sometimes) just get tired of reading threads on theses subjects.
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Old 01-20-2004, 12:56 PM   #19
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ooh! I want one!!!! gimme a phone number to call so I can order it!
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Old 01-20-2004, 12:58 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by trustWRX
I already have an Injen CAI and Injen Catback now. In February Injen is releasing their downpipe. Once I get that installed I qualify for a level 2 ECU flash from COBB.

I spoke to Craig @ COBB already and asked him about the intake. He said they already have maps for a Injen Turboback and Injen intake. He said if the intake was causing a lean condition from the mass air flow the maps would compensate for them.

I'm going with the handheld flasher through COBB so I don't have to send my ECU in to them.

So please stop worrying about my lean condition
[edit]
well crap, i shoulda been quicker with my writing... yeah, this says the same thing as the couple posts up.. but i swear they weren't here when i started writing! move along, nothing to see here...
[/edit]

Thing is, you probably don't have much of a "lean condition" now, but if you were to try to use regular reflashes from cobb or vishnu or whatever you would. Since their maps do the same thing through proper tuning instead of through improper maf changes, you basically end up applying double the "lean condition" effect to the car.

So what about cobb's custom map for your intake? Well, I'd like to know if their injen intake stg2 map makes any more power than their standard stg2 map. I'd be willing to bet my intake snorkel that it doesn't, mainly because they will be tuning around the lean areas of the map that exist, or perhaps even putting back in some fuel to compensate. THIS is where the waste of money comes in.

There is absolutely no question that an intake with a larger maf tube will cause your car to run leaner... it's straight physics. If your end goal is cheesy bolt on mods like a CAI and catback, then it will be fine. If your goal is to go even stage 1 with your car, it's a waste of money. Hell, if you really wanted to, you could get the same effect that your injen CAI gives you by buying one of these cheap-ass resistors off of ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2454923561

It just modifies your maf signal to do the same thing, instead of using a larger pipe.

Last edited by remowgn; 01-20-2004 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 01-20-2004, 02:00 PM   #21
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One more thing to note here... After driving around in closed loop for a while with the CAI, the ECU will adjust its fuel trims which it applies to open loop as well. This will bring the a/f down closer to stock and get rid of most of the power gains. I'd be willing to bet that dyno didn't take that into consideration.

-- Ed
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Old 01-20-2004, 02:09 PM   #22
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Ok this topic is done. I'm going to remove the CAI, buy the piping from Ashley and drop a K&N filter into the stock box then proceed with the level 2 COBB flash once I get the downpipe installed.
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Old 01-20-2004, 02:16 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by trustWRX
Ok this topic is done. I'm going to remove the CAI, buy the piping from Ashley and drop a K&N filter into the stock box then proceed with the level 2 COBB flash once I get the downpipe installed.
uh oh, another can of worms with the k and n...yikes.

If you like the sound, and your car has been tuned for it, than keep it on your car. Maybe it gives some throttle response? Any takers on that one? I would cut it down to a shortie for this purpose though.

Of course if you can sell it and get an up or downpipe instead you will be much more pleased with the performance of you car. And the sound that comes from true performance is much more invigorating
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Old 01-20-2004, 02:22 PM   #24
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Well the problem is everyone tells me something different so I never get the same definate response to the questions I have.

I called Injen and asked their tech straight out and he said

"Stock your car is running rich to begin with. The intake will lean out the mixture a bit but not that much to cause damage. The gains from our intake is from the air velocity increase not by leaning".

I placed to call to Subaru service department at my dealership and this is what they had to say:

"Well, the CAI may void your warranty if you have an issue that can be pinpointed to that specific mod." -Tech

I said "Well, will it damage the engine at all?"

He replied "It may lean out the mixture abit. I've had a few people come and remove their CAIs and put their stock box back in because of CELS".

I've had the CAI on my car for like 2-3 months now and never got a cel. The piping diameter on this thing is identical to the stock one.

As far as the whole "The K&N oil can get in your MAF and blah blah. I have had K&N drop ins on ALL my cars and never once had a problem with it.

Last edited by trustWRX; 01-20-2004 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 01-20-2004, 03:09 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by trustWRX


Oh yah Dave? Your member number is not less than 10,000 so dont call me a noob you semi-noob.
How many years did you spend as a professional mechanic, working at car dealerships?

I have 7 years dealership experience, 3 years at various lower end (muffler shop) before that, and been working on cars since I was all of 15. (NOTE< I dont think I know it all, but I know enough to understand fueling and air intake issues, and to know that people manipulate dynos every day for their own benefit)
n00b refers to more that member number on an internet forum.
Your post was argumentative, and based on VERY questionable dyno results.<The prefect example of noobishness. I mean, after all, there are dyno charts showing 17whp from grounding kits, does that mean they are true?

Why I called you a n00b
1. The mentaility behind your post
2. The fact that you believe any dyno chart is absolute proof
3. Your reference to K&N's on a WRX, basing the results from OTHER CARS, which have nothing to do with a WRX, thereby claiming that ALL CARS willr eact exactly the same to the same mods.
4. so many other reasons.

Call me immature, call me what you want. the truth is the truth regardless of what I am.
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