Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday December 18, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Engine Management & Tuning > AccessPort

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-05-2006, 12:13 PM   #1
pottymouth
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69099
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Springdale, AR
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Sedan
Java Black Pearl

Default 04 WRX Cobb stg 2 datalog ?'s

Well I figured out the Tari software, great stuff. I took some logs tonight and I have a few questions. I am running the stg 2 91 oct base map v 1.3.

I reset my ACU so I could find the right settings. My IAM was at 12 (the right reset number for Cobb) then fell down to 11 after about 3 WOT pulls from 2 to the top of third. Knock correction stayed positive about +6 dropping to +4 at the top of third.

I have always felt my EGT's were getting high WOT in 4th so I figured out how to log. I haven't done any 4th WOT runs because I like my low insurance rates and I couldn't find any school zones .

My question is how concerned should I be that my IAM didn't go up, or doesn't look like it will get to 16. Also how concerned should I be that my knock correction numbers aren't over 10.

Thanks for the help. I am trying to figure out how to post the .csv file so that will come.
pottymouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2006, 01:10 PM   #2
crazymikie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 56321
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Hopkinton, MA
Vehicle:
2006 Honda El Camino
Green

Default

I am not sure if it's a bad thing, necessarily- the IAM is very eager to move around right after a reset and then it should ultimately become more stable after more driving. I would give it a day or two and see where it ends up.

The KC numbers are dependent on the tune- just because they aren't at 10, doesn't mean there is a problem. I would look at the overall ignition timing curve to see how it looks. If your car is pulling timing for some reason, the retarded ignition might be the cuase of your high egts. What kind of temps are you seeing?


Mike
crazymikie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2006, 02:37 PM   #3
pottymouth
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69099
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Springdale, AR
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Sedan
Java Black Pearl

Default

My gauge shows about 1450-1500 WOT at the top of third. WOT in 4th at 5000+ it creeps up to 1500-1550. It has gone to 1600 before and when it gets there I let off. Logging the highest I got was 1475 WOT in third (factory egt), haven't tried any 4th pulls yet.

Overall my driving is highway to and from work, but I like the occasional track day. I am very apprehensive to get out on the track with the EGT's running 1600.

I will get a log on here later this week if I still see the low IAM.

Thanks for the help
pottymouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2006, 11:01 AM   #4
JRSCCivic98
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67080
Join Date: Jul 2004
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazymikie
I am not sure if it's a bad thing, necessarily- the IAM is very eager to move around right after a reset and then it should ultimately become more stable after more driving. I would give it a day or two and see where it ends up.

The KC numbers are dependent on the tune- just because they aren't at 10, doesn't mean there is a problem. I would look at the overall ignition timing curve to see how it looks. If your car is pulling timing for some reason, the retarded ignition might be the cuase of your high egts. What kind of temps are you seeing?


Mike
Way off base on both of these. IAM goes to initial value after a reset. If there is no knock the IAM advances from 8 to 12 to 14 and finally to 16 on a stock tune. With Cobb's initial value being at 12 the advance goes to 14 and 16 after only a few miles. The only time the IAM drops is if there was knock with the level of KC in the KC maps that the IAM references... if the IAM stays low and steady then the ECU has found the safe KC values to run without causing any knock. If the IAM was to go higher different KC values would be referenced and run... hence the low KC value number on a low IAM and high (10) on an IAM of 16. That's what KC values are based on... Some tuners mod the KC value tables, some don't. The good ones do and know what they are doing to find that sweet spot in the the timing curves.

Telling someone that if their curves are good even with crappy KC values and low IAM is not good advice. IAM should always be maxed at 16 with a proper tune.

pottymouth, go to the Tari forum and read my post. It'll steer you in the right direction.
JRSCCivic98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2006, 05:06 PM   #5
crazymikie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 56321
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Hopkinton, MA
Vehicle:
2006 Honda El Camino
Green

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98
Way off base on both of these. IAM goes to initial value after a reset. If there is no knock the IAM advances from 8 to 12 to 14 and finally to 16 on a stock tune. With Cobb's initial value being at 12 the advance goes to 14 and 16 after only a few miles. The only time the IAM drops is if there was knock with the level of KC in the KC maps that the IAM references...
I don't understand what that last statement means. Your IAM affects timing for the overall KC map. There is a finite range that it is programmed to learn over (rpm/load) and I'm not sure if Cobb modified those values or not. In any case, it's very possible that your IAM doesn't move around at WOT, based on how much load your car is seeing. Your IAM could settle at 12 because of how the midrange of your car is tuned. If your tuner accounted for this and set up your timing at WOT to run that way, what is wrong with this? I personally don't do it but some other people may.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98
if the IAM stays low and steady then the ECU has found the safe KC values to run without causing any knock. If the IAM was to go higher different KC values would be referenced and run... hence the low KC value number on a low IAM and high (10) on an IAM of 16. That's what KC values are based on... Some tuners mod the KC value tables, some don't. The good ones do and know what they are doing to find that sweet spot in the the timing curves.

Telling someone that if their curves are good even with crappy KC values and low IAM is not good advice. IAM should always be maxed at 16 with a proper tune.

pottymouth, go to the Tari forum and read my post. It'll steer you in the right direction.
No it shouldn't. Some people leave headroom in case they add race gas to their car. With pump gas, their IAM may settle at 10, but with race fuel, it might advance to 16. There's nothing wrong with that if it is tuned correctly. I personally prefer a different mapping but that's me. If the car is running the proper amount of timing and not detting with an IAM < 16 it's reasonable, though. The IAM is a coarse adjustment. It gets things in the ballpark and seems like it settles after a bit of driving. Then the knock correction and finally fine learning can take over and do their things.

I'm not saying one method is right or wrong- they have their advantages and disadvantages.


Mike
crazymikie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2006, 03:03 PM   #6
theicewall
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 70532
Join Date: Sep 2004
Vehicle:
2004 WRX
WRB

Default

That sounds pretty hot in 4th. What are your supporting mods?
theicewall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2006, 10:17 AM   #7
pottymouth
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69099
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Springdale, AR
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Sedan
Java Black Pearl

Default

Sorry it took a while to get back here. I just got some logs done.

I also posted on the Tari forum so if some of you frequent there, I apoligize for the duplication.

Mods. Invidia catless down, borla hush with high flow cat. 04 WRX Running Accessport Stg 2 91oct v1.3 base map with Cali 91oct real time map. Outside temp was about 55 degrees.

I have been having some problems with high EGT's and what I think is knock WOT in 4th. It really isn't a problem everyday because I don't drive like a maniac, but I have done a few track days, and with these logs I wouldn't want to do another one.

I also included just a 4th gear run.

Can you experts look over these and tell me what you think? I went with the accessport because I thought it was a good safe upgrade, these are a little scary. For reference my EGT mounted on the drivers side exhaust manifold was reading very similar throughout the runs.

Thanks for the help.
http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=26366 This is 1st through 4th
http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=26367 This is another 4th gear run.
pottymouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2006, 11:56 AM   #8
Hawke
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 25777
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pottymouth
For reference my EGT mounted on the drivers side exhaust manifold was reading very similar throughout the runs.
What do you mean by this? The factory one on Tari was reading similar to your installed gauge?
Hawke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2006, 12:24 PM   #9
pottymouth
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69099
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Springdale, AR
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Sedan
Java Black Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawke
What do you mean by this? The factory one on Tari was reading similar to your installed gauge?
Yeah sorry if that isn't clear. I have an omari EGT gauge and it was showing the same temps as the logs. I of course can't watch it really closely but I have the warning light set on 1600 and it tripped on, that is when I lifted off the throttle.
pottymouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2006, 01:19 PM   #10
Hawke
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 25777
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Default

Interesting. I've never seen any info that shows the difference between the stock sensor and an installed gauge, only read from others that it is worthless for watching EGT's. Thanks for the data!
Hawke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2006, 04:57 PM   #11
pottymouth
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69099
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Springdale, AR
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Sedan
Java Black Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawke
Interesting. I've never seen any info that shows the difference between the stock sensor and an installed gauge, only read from others that it is worthless for watching EGT's. Thanks for the data!
I was really surprised they were that close as well. It moves almost as quickly as the guage does. It could be just luck but it seems pretty accurate.
pottymouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2006, 04:09 PM   #12
subieworx
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 47769
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Default

I tend to hit about 1550-1575 around 6000 rpm in 4th on the track in my 04 w/ ap2. never have experienced any noticeable knock. I have yet to log my car though with that software even though i have done it for a few others. Damn, I'm too giving.
subieworx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2006, 12:17 AM   #13
JRSCCivic98
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67080
Join Date: Jul 2004
Default

Wrong again. If you IAM bounces arround a lot it means you have major knock problems because of a crappy base fuel and base timing map. The IAM should advance and stay put no matter where you are in the RPM range. The IAM doesn't change throughout RPM range... where did you get an idea like that? As for tuning for fuel advancement, pushing the limit of the IAM vs KC values is where that lies. You can do some tuning to take into affect if someone runs better gas, but that advancement should only be in the IAM of 14-16... maybe 12, but that's pushing it. One VERY KEY factor you need to remember is that the ECU will try repeatedly from time to time to advance the IAM to test and see if you've got better gas available or not. If the ECU constantly tests for this and your knock events are too severe over time you'll kill your isht. This is why you tune for 1-2 points of octane below what you will run and get it to run at about an IAM of 14 consistantly under that tune. Advancement of the IAM will happen if you run better gas and inturn pull up better KC values from the KC maps to go along with it.

Bottom line... if your IAM drops below the onset point (in case of Cobb... 12) then the tune is not right for the car. The map is crap. The IAM should either advance all the way to 16, advance slightly maybe to 14 (and increase to 16 with really good gas) or stay steady at 12 without any negative KC values (while maintaining at least a 4-6 positive KC value).

Negative KC values (even for a moment) and jumpy IAM values = The Suck Map.
JRSCCivic98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ohio registered 2002 WRX Cobb Stg.2 & Prodrive, but located in Florida Leandro MWSOC Private Classifieds 2 04-10-2006 10:47 PM
2006 WRX + Cobb stg 2 estimates RexusFastus Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.5L Turbo) 11 08-25-2005 10:09 PM
Dynoed my 03 WRX Cobb stg 2... Swine Proven Power Bragging 23 05-10-2005 08:48 PM
03 WRX Cobb Stg 2 93 octane on Dynojet Lordhowe Proven Power Bragging 40 03-11-2005 04:09 PM
2005 WRX Cobb STG 2 lower RPM stutter Killian Maynard Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 11 02-17-2005 12:45 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.