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Old 04-27-2001, 06:54 AM   #1
rao
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Post Disabling Daytime Running Lights on a 2000 Legacy GT?

[Sorry I asked]

[This message has been edited by rao (edited April 30, 2001).]
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Old 04-27-2001, 07:20 AM   #2
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Ok, I cant help you, but I am just curious: What makes someone hate DTRLs so much? I guess it is not like I see them myself, unless you are looking to preserve an "image". Dont take this as a flame, or a troll, I am really curious.

Of course my grandpa taught me how to drive, and one of the first things he taught me was to turn on the lights, no matter what, for safety reasons. So I may be biased in the "they are there for safety" department...

Oh, if you start tearing things apart, check first with the handbreak sensor switch. The DTRLs come on when you release the handbreak, so the leads for them may be in there. (also makes for some amusing rallyx footage when you are handbreaking through turns! ). Not sure if pulling a lead in there would effect normal operation tho...

A
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Old 04-27-2001, 07:47 AM   #3
rao
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Got me - I'm just ring to help.
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Old 04-27-2001, 02:48 PM   #4
Impresario
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Why would having your car's lights on during the day make driving any "safer"? If you can't see a 3000 lb vehicle in the road, what purpose do the lights serve? If anything, you're decreasing the safety of smaller vehicles like motorcycles who could actually benefit from the use of daytime running lamps.
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Old 04-30-2001, 12:26 AM   #5
Andy_T
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Impresario - you'd better write off to the Swedish, Norwegian and Finnish Transport departments (amongst others) and tell them then. They've been doing it wrong all these years, obviously .

One thing that DRLs are good for are ensuring that you can see dumb people who don't turn their lights on at night (I see 8-10 cars a night without lights in Sydney, usually being driven by the mindless and zombified who aren't concentrating on what they're doing as they pilot two ton of SUV through traffic). DRLs don't make an awful lot of sense in the summertime, but it still gets dark in the summer (unless you live on one of the Poles) and there's no legislating for the irredeemably stupid, sadly...

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Old 04-30-2001, 09:29 AM   #6
hillman
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Rao, your search for BTDT info on this will likely be fruitless. I've been looking for almost a year and half, because I want to do the same on my 2000 Legacy GT. Eventually, I will get around to figuring it out, but I can't even find a decent shop manual, yet.

That said, the reason DRLs are a bad idea is two-fold. First, they don't scale at all. While one lit car may stand out, when you are faced with a dozen, they just blend.

Second, and more importantly, human eyes don't see light; we see edges and movement, for the most part. Lights which hamper this, reduce our visual acuity. Ask the US Army why they use bright lights to camoflage tanks in the desert. When the sun is out, your lights should be <strong>off</strong>.

The problem of drivers too ignorant to remember to turn on their lights is best solved through education and enforcement, not inappropriate application of technology.
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Old 04-30-2001, 11:47 AM   #7
gavin
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uhh, that's just wrong, hillman. Tanks are camouflaged by flooding the ENTIRE vehicle with light, which washes it out against the background. And, you're confusing visual accuity with object recognition, which is a completely different thing.

The contrasting headlights on a vehicle have proven time and time again to reduce accidents. Why the hell anyone would try to disable safety equipment that does not affect them in ANY way, is beyond me.

[This message has been edited by gavin (edited April 30, 2001).]
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Old 05-01-2001, 12:27 AM   #8
ejicon
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Geez... look where a simple "How To" question has turn into.... Interesting indeed..
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Old 04-30-2001, 03:48 PM   #9
hillman
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Right, the light washes out the vehicle in comparison to the background. Whether the light is sufficient to <strong>completely</strong> hide the vehicle is irrelevant; DRLs will make it harder to see.

That said, an oncoming vehicle with headlights lit and sun reflecting off the windshield driving on a reflective concrete surface is entirely flooded with light.

Object recognition would apply as well, but I believe visual acuity is also an appropriate term. It is in the usage I can find, such as;
http://www.yorku.ca/research/vision/eye/acuity.htm

If you have proof of the effectiveness of DRLs, I'd like to see it. There exist statistics which indicate a reduction in accident rates for DRL-equipped cars in Canada and various Scandanavian countries, but that is far from proof.

Even if the accident rate for DRL-equipped cars is lower, that does not make them scale well. If cars painted with zebra-stripes had a lower accident rate, do you think that would stand up to having all cars painted that way?

Or did they accident rate drop simply because those cars are different?

All of the studies I have seen were conducted in countries with a fraction of the traffic-density of most US cities and most also ignore the scaling issue.
http://www.lightsout.org/docs/30yrs.pdf

( A review of 30 years of poor science concluding that there is still no proof that DRLs are effective. )

If you can prove DRLs are effective, please do; it'll save me from messing with the wiring on my Legacy.
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Old 04-30-2001, 03:55 PM   #10
hillman
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And another thing... for every knucklehead driver who forgets to turn on his headlights and is saved by DRLs, I'll show you one who got rear-ended because his DRLs didn't light the rear of his vehicle.

Probably more than one, since you have to be really out-of-it to drive more than a few feet completely sans headlights at night, but I see DRL-only cars almost everytime I drive at night.
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Old 04-30-2001, 04:11 PM   #11
DougH
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I've noticed on my gt the drl's turn off when I pull the e-brake up. Maybe there's a switch there that can be modified to keep them off.
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Old 04-30-2001, 09:30 PM   #12
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Soob already has the perfect answer. Lights that switch off witht the car. Easy, if YOU, not the Gov't or car company want DRL then just leave the flipping switch in the on position. If you are like the rest of the civilized world (JK)then you would have the option of turning them on or off. Now all they have to do (SOA) is get rid of the friggin things and let adults make up thier own minds.
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Old 05-02-2001, 12:14 AM   #13
Impresario
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Here's an interesting <A HREF="http://www.motorists.org/stealthis/lightsoff.html">article</A>on the subject.
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Old 05-02-2001, 01:22 PM   #14
skeisenb
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If a car coming at you with daytime running lights turned on really distracts you, then you have some major problems. I don't even notice them.

What a stupid thing to take issue with.
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Old 05-02-2001, 01:24 PM   #15
rao
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People - again - SORRY I ASKED, please don't respond to this thread anymore. I would delete it if I could. DLC, can you please delete this?
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Old 05-04-2001, 12:35 AM   #16
Eric in DC
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I disabled the DRL on my Passat for aesthetic reasons. There's no need for DRL in city driving. On the one-lane road between DC and Delaware, where people do lots of passing, having the headlights on help me make sure there's no on-coming traffic. On these roads, there are usually signs that suggest you turn on your headlight regardless of weather condition.
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Old 05-03-2001, 05:21 PM   #17
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For the love of God could some Mod kill this thread? Morons like me are keeping it alive!
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