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Old 06-06-2005, 10:53 PM   #26
Call_me_Tom
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Stock Set Up Rear

STI Springs Rear

STI Springs & STI Struts Rear
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Old 06-06-2005, 10:59 PM   #27
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Stock Set up

STI Springs

STI Springs & Struts
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Old 06-06-2005, 11:21 PM   #28
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The vehicle is not bouncy at all. It rides very much like my friends ’04 Wagon with STI takeoffs. I was a little scared at first but I am very happy with the results. Thanks once again to Pipercub for giving me some sound advice and helping me with my decision.
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Old 06-07-2005, 05:47 AM   #29
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Your cut springs have almost the same drop as the Perrin springs I have.
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Old 06-07-2005, 06:06 AM   #30
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Why not just get the Tein S-tech springs? I think they have similar springrates to the pinks, and they lower the car a bit more.

And just so you understand, lowering the car more than the pinks will probably hurt your handling, due to the fact that camber will go positive even more quickly in a turn.
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Old 06-07-2005, 10:24 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J!M
Why not just get the Tein S-tech springs? I think they have similar springrates to the pinks, and they lower the car a bit more.

And just so you understand, lowering the car more than the pinks will probably hurt your handling, due to the fact that camber will go positive even more quickly in a turn.
There is also the problem that lowering the front more than the rear shifts the weight forward, on a car that already has weight balance issues.
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Old 06-07-2005, 10:47 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J!M
Why not just get the Tein S-tech springs? I think they have similar springrates to the pinks, and they lower the car a bit more.

And just so you understand, lowering the car more than the pinks will probably hurt your handling, due to the fact that camber will go positive even more quickly in a turn.
I got the STI springs for free and once the suspension settles down some after a few days of driving I'll be getting an alignment using more aggressive camber bolts.
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Old 06-07-2005, 10:52 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fliz
There is also the problem that lowering the front more than the rear shifts the weight forward, on a car that already has weight balance issues.
The car has an even drop front to back. If you look closely to the car when it only had the STI springs (w/ stock struts) on, it actually sat 1/4” higher in the front compared to the rear. I thought about the performance aspect of having the front of the car sitting higher up front pushing more of the weight to the rear but the look of it was killing me. Also now when I shift the car barely has any lift same goes for when I brake.
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Old 06-07-2005, 12:29 PM   #34
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what are you measuring by? isn't the rear fenderwell lower than the front? if you have the same gap front and back, the car is dipping forward. yes or no?
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Old 06-07-2005, 12:46 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pipercub
the car is not slammed and has pleanty of travel left.
No, you are now just 40-50mm from the bumpstops. That is less travel than a car with typical stiff coilovers and your springrates are not as high. The reason your brake dive is gone is because you are in fact bottoming the front suspension on braking. Good thing they are soft progressive stops else you'd be destroying things right now.
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Old 06-07-2005, 02:09 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhluhr
No, you are now just 40-50mm from the bumpstops. That is less travel than a car with typical stiff coilovers and your springrates are not as high. The reason your brake dive is gone is because you are in fact bottoming the front suspension on braking. Good thing they are soft progressive stops else you'd be destroying things right now.
Agreed. The STi struts have nearly woefully short travel to start with in stock form. Make the springs shorter and the travel is quite limited. The rear of my car has 1.5" of travel (I haven't measured the front I'll have to get around to that one of these days) for reference and mine is basically in the 99th percentile of stiffest Subarus on the board. It still runs out of travel and I lift a wheel; I promise that the bumpstops are being utilized quite a bit.

Do note that the term "bumpstop" is somewhat misleading as there is never any real "bump" involved when one is making contact with them.

-Biggly
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Old 06-07-2005, 06:26 PM   #37
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"No, you are now just 40-50mm from the bumpstops. That is less travel than a car with typical stiff coilovers and your springrates are not as high.The reason your brake dive is gone is because you are in fact bottoming the front suspension on braking. Good thing they are soft progressive stops else you'd be destroying things right now."

No, it isn't. If your incorrect claim was true, I would have to travel the 50mm or TWO INCHES which is more brake dive than a 1970's buick could suffer. Nothing is bottoming out.

Nhuler has never ridden in or even seen my car, he has no factual basis for his claims. Those who have can flatly dispute these claims.
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Old 06-07-2005, 08:34 PM   #38
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well if you want to stick to your troglodytic claims, go for it. I for one, know better.
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Old 06-07-2005, 11:40 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xfader
what are you measuring by? isn't the rear fenderwell lower than the front? if you have the same gap front and back, the car is dipping forward. yes or no?
It’s hard to explain in typed words but here’s a try. I measured from the area where you put the scissor jack. I took the measurements with the side-skirts off (they were getting painted) on a level plain as close to the fender/tire as possible. I also measured the distance from the ground to the edge of the fender from the center of the wheel but I no longer remember those numbers. The 1/4” difference between the front and rear heights with just the STI springs is accurate. Just by looking at them I had guessed that there was a 1/4” difference and my guess was confirmed with the measurement. If you look at the picture above with just the STI springs you can see that the front of the car rides higher in the air with the rear lower. Us wagon guys call this the “Saggy Butt”.
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Old 06-07-2005, 11:59 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xfader
what are you measuring by? isn't the rear fenderwell lower than the front? if you have the same gap front and back, the car is dipping forward. yes or no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by krazyK1371
It’s hard to explain in typed words but here’s a try. I measured from the area where you put the scissor jack. I took the measurements with the side-skirts off (they were getting painted) on a level plain as close to the fender/tire as possible. I also measured the distance from the ground to the edge of the fender from the center of the wheel but I no longer remember those numbers. The 1/4” difference between the front and rear heights with just the STI springs is accurate. Just by looking at them I had guessed that there was a 1/4” difference and my guess was confirmed with the measurement. If you look at the picture above with just the STI springs you can see that the front of the car rides higher in the air with the rear lower. Us wagon guys call this the “Saggy Butt”.
I just reread my prior post and it sort of confused me (and I wrote it?!). The car now sits perfectly even. It’s not higher or lower front to back. The fender gap is still larger in the front than it is in the rear but that is because the front fender is larger than the rear (which you already knew). When I spoke earlier of looking at them I meant looking at the actual car with the STI springs installed. The front of the car had it’s nose high in the air and the rear looked like I had a few bags of concrete packed away.

So to answer you question it would be no.
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Old 06-08-2005, 11:47 AM   #41
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so piper, have you flown off the road yet?

broken any suspension parts?

lost any fillings?

i just love naysayers! especially those that like to defy the real world.
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Old 06-08-2005, 04:41 PM   #42
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God I know, I mean you just drove the thing 52 miles to work and 52 home over nice paved roads, a bumpy unpaved shortcut between two commuter roads, parkinglot speedbumps and all your daily problems and have had nothing but great results. Just like the weeks and months before. Yet a few folks who have never even seen your car in person are trying to claim they are correct in their assumptions that they have never tested! I have been through the same stuff with my 82 BRAT, I even had a Subaru service manager tell me that "it would be nice if it existed" when I had to describe to him why my BRAT had an H6 in it. Of course his opinion didn't change the reality that the thing was parked outside the service bay doors or the fact that I was driving it down the road 5 min later. And of course nobody's claims here will make my car bounce or scrape down the road today or any other day.
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Old 06-08-2005, 10:21 PM   #43
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hey i rode in piper's sti the other night and it was a very smooth ride! braking felt normal, no bouncing or anything, great power and over all smooth. so to confirm the post about the critics, i couldnt tell that there was any modification done to the springs.

k.c.
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Old 06-09-2005, 01:47 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pipercub
"No, you are now just 40-50mm from the bumpstops. That is less travel than a car with typical stiff coilovers and your springrates are not as high.The reason your brake dive is gone is because you are in fact bottoming the front suspension on braking. Good thing they are soft progressive stops else you'd be destroying things right now."

No, it isn't. If your incorrect claim was true, I would have to travel the 50mm or TWO INCHES which is more brake dive than a 1970's buick could suffer. Nothing is bottoming out.

Nhuler has never ridden in or even seen my car, he has no factual basis for his claims. Those who have can flatly dispute these claims.
Pipercub,
Beware as the term "bumpstop" is quite misleading and there is never any "bump" involved when one is coming into contact with them as it's inherent in their design. If my 550# front springs (which are more than double the Pink springrates if I remember right) were travelling more than 50mm while under cornering and braking then what makes you think your springs aren't?

I honestly didn't believe I was hitting the bumpstops either until I did the zip-tie test. I never felt it the whole time and was swearing that it wasn't coming close to them, but the zip tie didn't lie. The mid-corner push I was getting was erased once the car was changed to a height of high enough to keep it off of the bumpstops. There was no bumping and no bouncing.

-Biggly
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Old 06-09-2005, 02:58 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBiggly
I honestly didn't believe I was hitting the bumpstops either until I did the zip-tie test.
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Old 06-09-2005, 06:08 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtDyno

put a zip tie around the shock shaft, push it down to the base of the shaft, go drive, and see how much it has moved..

God that sounds gross.
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Old 06-10-2005, 08:12 AM   #47
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I'm not getting any mid corner push and I know very well what a bump stop is and how it works. Perhaps my sway bars account for the difference between my experience and Mr Biggleys. I can't say because I don't know the configuration and other mods to his car, just as nobody speculating here is aware of mine.

I just realized what this reminds me of, I have had the same type of discussion over on the Porsche board (we also have a boxster) about which car is the better car, the STI or the Porsche. Some folks noticed my comments on the STI compared to the Porsche and took issue with it. They are just damn insistant that the Porsche outdoes the STI even though they have never driven one. I know the reality as we own both. Getting into the Boxster feels like driving an old Ford Ranger after driving the STI. None of their claims can make the Boxster any faster or handle any better than the STI but yet they insist.
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Old 06-10-2005, 08:58 AM   #48
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Funny how this topic came about. IIRC the real STi pinks are pretty pricey and pretty springy at that Now although I wouldn't cut a fine spring as the pinks, I have done some spring cutting myself.

The thing is, they are fine to drive on as long as you know what the drawbacks are, and understand what happens when you cut them. Stuff like proper spring seating (technically not proper once you cut them.. but oh well) and proper cutting method (not really proper either.. lol) all make a difference.

Funny though, here in hawaii we tend to do a lot of stupid s!@%. I mean some people do worse things then cutting springs, but anyway. A friend of mine, crashed his stock height WRX due to a snap oversteer condition on an offramp with 2 other people in the car (..!@#$ing idiot) He came to me saying .. I don't want to drive stupid anymore, I will mellow out. But can you do me a favor and cut my springs, until I can buy coilovers? I just want the look, I can't stand the height.

Pretty funny, but long story short, I cut it for him and got it to 1 finger gap all around with a little adjustments here and there. The result was a huge ground control coilover setup. :P You know how the Ground Control springs come completely detached from the upper spring perch? Imagine a stock spring with that much gap in between. LOL.

Well yeah, there was no preload because I cut it somewhere along 2 whole coils. You had to make sure the springs were seated perfectly before lowering, or else you'd surely be in for an accident.

Funny thing is, even though he definately had no travel, it rode like stock. No camber issues at static ride height. Haha. No one would have known he ran cut springs. Pretty funny.

Oh, shortly after I cut this guy's springs, he scores a used set of HKS Hipermax II coilovers for $1300 (500miles.) what the ____?!

Makes me kinda jealous sometimes .. I know more about his car then he does but he gots the $$$ to put me to shame. booooooooooooooo.

Oh yeah. Back to the topic. Cutting springs is bad. But it can be done. You better know what you're doing.

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Old 06-10-2005, 02:12 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pipercub
I'm not getting any mid corner push and I know very well what a bump stop is and how it works. Perhaps my sway bars account for the difference between my experience and Mr Biggleys.
Holy crap you must have some big bars! I'm at 22mm/24mm down from 24/26mm. Upped the springrate and down on the bars to compensate in order to gain a little better match on my shocks. Dude just how big are your bars??
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Old 06-10-2005, 02:17 PM   #50
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No, I think Pipercub is just too dumb to realize that yes, in fact, he is constantly on the bumpstop

No amount of swaybar will keep you off the bumpstop with 40mm of bump travel and a 250lb spring on a 3200lb car

-Tom
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