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Old 01-12-2007, 02:33 PM   #26
Ziggyrama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by druxboyz View Post
yea, i know he knows his ****. i've read plenty of his posts. i also believe that its possible that he has added something or taken something out since he last posted his mods. Is it wrong for me to ask what his CURRENT mods are?

Morning nasioc people just like to read and write/chat to others anyway. Just like in real life, if you go to a meet and walk up to a guy that has his hood popped, is it wrong to ask him what he has under the hood to spark a conversation? Or would it be a bit rude of him to say "search under my hood, my noob friend, its right in front of you."
Do I detect a hint of touchiness? Easy now. We all had to pay our newbie dues. I got my ass paddled a few times. I think it's our right to paddle yours now Just kidding.

Try not to take yourself so seriously. As for ride5000's mods, if you visit his public profile, you will find his webpage link which describes them all:

http://ken-gilbert.com/wrx/kens_wrx.htm

The list is quite extensive. Enjoy!
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Old 01-12-2007, 03:05 PM   #27
druxboyz
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how was i being touchy? i added a
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Old 01-12-2007, 04:45 PM   #28
ride5000
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Default ruminations and ramblings on ign advance and load reference

hey now, everyone keep their feathers smooth.

ok, since the post of this thread, i have changed nothing of extreme importance.

i have narrowed my spark gap from ~.042 to ~.035. i had swapped plugs at the end of the summer and tried a gap of .040. over a couple thousand miles it widened (as it should) to .042, and i started getting full load misfires. so out they came, closed the gap, and right back in, and the misfires are gone.

i have also switched back to tuning the utec on top of the oem ecu. i have found a couple of interesting tidbits: 1) it seems that there is sometimes a discrepancy between what the oem ecu reports as timing, and what the utec reports as oem ecu timing. 2) that timing map you see in this thread is pretty conservative in the midrange rpms, and just about right (for my car) at redline.

with the utec i am pushing about 4-7 additional degrees of timing in most of the map. at full load i am running ~14 degrees, as reported by the utec, but it says my oem timing is ~10. again, there appears to be a bit of a discrepancy between the utec and the oem ecu as to where exactly TDC is. i am not the first one to see this: mick the ginge reported the same thing in some past post. so i don't really know what the TRUE advance is, and whether or not i'm actually running more or less than i did before! a degree is a degree and i'm not saying the utec is magically giving me more power/torque, because it's not. it IS easier to make a quick, targeted change to some area of the timing map, save the change, and keep on driving. you don't need to turn off the car, or even stop the car, to make these little tweaks, so when i'm pushing things i just chose to do it with the utec.

now, the bombshell: i have come to a preliminary conclusion that i actually like MAP based load columns (pressure-load) for timing control better than the way the oem ecu represents load (mass-load). why's that, you ask?

well, i'll tell you.

let's take a moderate temperature day.. 70*f. we floor the car and our MRP peaks out at 25psi.

both of our ems systems (one running mass-load like the oem ecu and the other running pressure-load like a utec) run the same timing at 4k rpms: 14* btdc. they both make the same power and everything is cool.

now, a warmer day comes along. peak boost hasn't changed. the mass-load ecu interprets the warmer air as having less mass, and therefore runs in a lighter load column. this column most likely has more advance. the pressure-load ecu interprets the warmer day as exactly the same as before and runs the same advance.

the question at this point is which one is closer to knock? the answer is of course the mass-load ecu because it's running more advance. which one is making more power? probably the same mass-load ecu since we're not past MBT.

now a colder day. same peak boost. the situations reverse themselves. the mass-load ecu runs LESS advance because more air mass is actually coming into the engine and therefore it is indexing a higher load column. the pressure-load ecu again runs the same advance as the moderate day, and this puts it closer to MBT and closer to knock at the same time.

could we adjust our temperature compensations to our pressure-load ecu to align the two? sure. i plan to as the weather gets warmer.

BUT here's the thing: on my utec, i am running substantially the same advance on these much colder days as i was in the summer. i was expecting to have to duck the advance a lot lower than i'm currently running. the reason i can get away with it is because it's COLD. the intake air is cold and dense, the compressor is efficient, the intercooler is doing a great job, and i'm sure the charge air is pretty close to ambient air temps.

the cold air just doesn't want to knock.

when i run the same advance with a lot more air mass, i make more power. when it's cold out, the pressure-load ecu makes a LOT more power. i'm not so sure it's unsafe power. i haven't had a full load knock in a long time. the oem ecu will retard timing based on cold dense charge air because more mass is going in, but the question is: should it?

in theory i say absolutely yes. but the key is, that theoretical YES is based upon the assumption that we are at MBT. therefore a colder, denser charge means less timing is NECESSARY. in my experience, on pump gas, we're NOT at MBT, so the only reason to reduce advance is knock. no knock, no problem--free power on the table to be had. the cold air unlocks the power by making it harder to knock.

i've been using a utec long enough to know that running without temperature compensations has its limits. i remember on some REALLY kicking cold days a few years ago i had to duck a degree or two. though it was cold as a bastard outside (ie quite below freezing) and i'm sure the charge was cold, the density was so much greater that the knock was precipitated by PRESSURE in the chamber more than HEAT. it was no big deal to tune that out.

it obviously also happens when it's REALLY warm out. you just can't expect to run the same advance across huge temp swings. but, in my current experience, having played around quite a bit with both pressure-load and mass-load systems, you CAN run the same advance across temperature swings larger than one would think.

at this point, it's my theory that this is because of the natural self-compensating nature of the effect ambient temps have: the warmer air is closer to detting via TEMPERATURE but not PRESSURE, and the colder air is closer to detting via PRESSURE but not TEMPERATURE. either way doesn't require a huge change in advance to compensate when compared to the "moderate day."

could we effect a decrease in the change in advance called for by the oem ecu's basis on mass-load? sure we could. in simple terms we could just use the IAT compensation, but this time dialling in MORE advance with colder temps, to counteract the decreased advance with higher mass-loads. generally the maps i've seen only retard timing as iat gets really hot. again, we don't want to add too much as it gets really cold. in fact we'd want definately want a plateau to clamp max addl timing to something like 2-4* (naturally depending on how the rest of the maps look).

we could also flatten out our ign maps wrt load, so that despite bigger mass-loads being hit the advance doesn't change (or doesn't change as much). 6 of one, half-dozen of another.

ok, cliff notes:

i can tell you that i am surprised by the lack of change between my summer utec ign map and my current winter utec ign map. looking at the difference in calculated mass-loads would lead one to believe that a lot less advance would have to be run, but i haven't found that to be necessary.

i will post some maps and logs soon, and you can look over the results yourselves.

ken

Last edited by ride5000; 01-12-2007 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 01-12-2007, 05:14 PM   #29
jblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by druxboyz View Post
how was i being touchy? i added a
You weren't.
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Old 01-12-2007, 08:43 PM   #30
TMessick
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Regarding MAP-based versus specific MAF based load -- I totally concur. Most of the programs I've calibrated at work were MAP-based spark. Especially on an NA motor, it's really nice to just floor it and end up going linearly across the surface. More consistent, easier to calibrate, ... YOu need to work a bit more on your temp corrections, but everything is just more stable.

New program uses MAF-based spark. I hate it. You end up travelling all over the surface on a WOT run. One of my coworkers keeps claiming that MAF based spark is perfect since it's self compensating for altitude and temperature. [email protected] While it does do some compensation for these variables, you still need altitude and temp trims. End result, nothing is stable, harder to cal, and you only end up using like 70% of the map because at low RPM you can't get the high MAF's....

MAP-based spark good, MAF-based spark less good. Either is still better than a distributor though.
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Old 01-13-2007, 12:21 AM   #31
blkscooby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by druxboyz View Post
yea, i know he knows his ****. i've read plenty of his posts. i also believe that its possible that he has added something or taken something out since he last posted his mods. Is it wrong for me to ask what his CURRENT mods are?

Morning nasioc people just like to read and write/chat to others anyway. Just like in real life, if you go to a meet and walk up to a guy that has his hood popped, is it wrong to ask him what he has under the hood to spark a conversation? Or would it be a bit rude of him to say "search under my hood, my noob friend, its right in front of you."

Also, free bump for his reference thread, that's always a friendly gesture.
It wasn't a knock against you. I just know that Ken has a website and that address could be found by searching. Maybe I should have been a little clearer

WOW! Did everyone else feel like they just attended a graduate level course on timing after Ride5000's latest post?!? Keep up the excellent posts!
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Old 01-16-2007, 09:32 AM   #32
ride5000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMessick View Post
MAP-based spark good, MAF-based spark less good. Either is still better than a distributor though.
interesting points, t. it's nice to have your perspective as an oem engineer.
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Old 01-16-2007, 01:06 PM   #33
tachrev
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMessick View Post
MAP-based spark good, MAF-based spark less good. Either is still better than a distributor though.
Just a few years ago I was saying the same thing about the difference between points vs. electronic distributors (when I was converting my Ford over to a hall-effect Duraspark system ).
Now I have all this coil-on-plug, computer controlled goodness that I never imagined I would be working with.

I can get 20+ mpg, run 11's with a little work, have AC, power windows, and drive in the rain without dying. All with 4 doors, car-seat mod FTW.

Still love playing with my old skool tech to though. Makes for a real clean engine bay.
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Old 01-17-2007, 03:39 PM   #34
ride5000
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here's a pull i did this morning, roll on in 1st, flat foot to second to redline:

Code:
time   rpm  mrp   mafv tps  mlp  knc afr  ign   idc  ign2  ve   wgd  mmv  afr   spark
000.00 2712  +1.9 2.8   47    0   0  14.6 23.5  16.1 ECU.  90   ECU  2.9  14.64 1.444
000.04 2798  +2.3 2.9   52    0   0  14.6 18.8  17.1 ECU.  90   ECU  3.0  14.58 1.120
000.09 2898  +2.5 3.0   57    0   0  14.6 20.3  18.1 ECU.  90    51  3.0  14.60 1.167
000.14 2952  +3.1 3.0   58    0   0  14.7 21.5  18.6 ECU.  90    58  3.0  14.65 1.214
000.18 3027  +3.3 3.0   59    0   0  14.7 23.0  19.3 ECU.  90    58  3.1  14.66 1.266
000.22 3077  +3.5 3.0   63    0   0  14.7 23.0  20.0 ECU.  90    59  3.0  14.70 1.246
000.27 3180  +3.9 3.1   69    0   0  14.7 22.6  21.1 ECU.  90    64  3.2  14.70 1.184
000.31 3258  +4.3 3.2   71    0   0  14.7 22.3  22.1 ECU.  90    64  3.3  14.70 1.141
000.36 3326  +4.7 3.2   74    0   0  14.7 21.9  24.6 ECU.  90    70  3.3  14.70 1.097
000.40 3408  +5.1 3.3   78    0   0  14.6 21.5  29.8 ECU.  90   WGS  3.4  14.61 1.051
000.46 3572  +6.1 3.3   83    0   0  14.3 20.3  33.8 ECU.  90   WGS  3.6  14.26 0.947
000.51 3654  +7.2 3.5   85    0   0  13.9 19.0  35.9 ECU.  90   WGS  3.6  13.87 0.867
000.55 3766  +8.0 3.5   88    0   0  13.5 18.1  38.4 ECU.  90   WGS  3.7  13.51 0.801
000.60 3796  +9.0 3.6   94    0   0  13.2 17.2  42.3 ECU.  90   WGS  3.8  13.24 0.755
000.64 3963 +10.4 3.8  100    0   0  12.9 15.0  45.4 ECU.  91   WGS  3.8  12.85 0.631
000.70 4145 +12.3 3.9  100    0   0  12.4 12.2  53.0 ECU.  92   WGS  4.1  12.42 0.491
000.74 4203 +13.9 3.9   99    0   0  12.2 11.2  61.0 ECU.  94   WGS  4.1  12.21 0.444
000.79 4251 +15.5 4.1   98    0   0  12.2 10.2  59.3 13.4  96   WGS  4.2  12.16 0.400
000.83 4367 +17.6 4.2  100   50   0  12.0 +8.6  71.6 16.6  98   WGS  4.3  11.98 0.328
000.88 4553 +20.4 4.2   99   60   0  11.9 +8.2  81.0 14.5 100   100  4.4  11.92 0.300
000.92 4757 +22.1 4.4   99   80   0  12.0 +7.2  86.4 13.5 100   100  4.5  11.95 0.252
000.96 4922 +22.9 4.5   99   80   0  12.1 +7.9  90.9 13.2 100   100  4.5  12.06 0.268
001.01 5066 +23.1 4.5   99   80   1  12.2 +8.0  94.5 12.6 100    90  4.6  12.21 0.263
001.06 5285 +23.3 4.6   98   90   0  12.5 +8.4   0.0 12.8  99    90  4.6  12.46 0.265
001.12 5541 +23.3 4.6   98   90   0  12.6 +8.8   0.0 13.4  97    90  4.6  12.61 0.265
001.16 5767 +22.9 4.6   98   80   0  12.7 +9.4  98.7 14.3  95    90  4.6  12.68 0.272
001.21 5956 +22.5 4.6   98   80   0  12.7 +9.5  98.3 15.6  93    90  4.6  12.74 0.266
001.25 6095 +21.9 4.6   98   80   0  12.8 10.0  98.8 16.6  92   100  4.6  12.75 0.273
001.31 6226 +21.2 4.6   99   70   0  12.7 12.9  96.0 17.8  91   100  4.6  12.72 0.345
001.35 6371 +20.6 4.6   99   70   0  12.6 13.6  97.9 18.7  91    90  4.6  12.62 0.356
001.40 6509 +20.4 4.6   98   70   0  12.5 13.0  96.8 18.7  91    90  4.6  12.50 0.333
001.44 6798 +19.8 4.6   98   70   0  12.4 13.0  96.1 19.5  90    90  4.6  12.37 0.319
001.49 6856 +20.0 4.6   99   70   0  12.4 13.7  99.4 20.4  89    90  4.6  12.37 0.333
001.54 6897 +20.2 4.6   99   70   0  13.0 14.8  99.4 20.1  90    90  4.6  12.96 0.358
001.59 6819 +20.4 4.6  100   70   0  13.5 15.8  96.6 19.5  90   LCM  4.5  13.48 0.386
001.63 6595 +18.8 4.6  100   60   0  15.6 15.5  87.3 21.4  92   LCM  4.3  15.58 0.392
001.68 6385 +16.8 4.3  100   50   0  21.2 14.0  79.5 22.7  93   LCM  4.3  21.15 0.365
001.74 6183 +15.1 4.2  100   40   0  23.2 15.0  75.0 22.9  93   LCM  4.2  23.15 0.404
001.78 5942 +14.5 4.2  100   30   0  25.0 14.5  69.8 21.9  93   LCM  4.2  25.00 0.407
001.82 5753 +13.9 4.2  100   30   0  25.0 15.0  67.8 21.3  92   LCM  4.2  25.00 0.435
001.86 5592 +14.1 4.3  100   30   0  25.0 13.8  65.5 18.1  93   LCM  4.2  25.00 0.411
001.92 5404 +13.9 4.3  100   30   0  25.0 13.4  62.4 ECU.  93   LCM  4.1  25.00 0.413
001.96 5238 +14.3 4.1  100   30   0  25.0 12.6  62.0 ECU.  93   LCM  4.1  25.00 0.401
002.00 5105 +13.9 4.1  100   30   0  25.0 12.9  60.3 ECU.  93   LCM  4.0  25.00 0.421
002.04 4438 +13.9 4.1  100    0   0  25.0 12.9  49.5 ECU.  94   100  3.7  25.00 0.484
002.10 3531 +14.7 3.9  100    0   0  25.0 +8.7  50.2 ECU.  98   100  4.1  25.00 0.411
002.16 4046 +17.0 4.0   99   50   0  25.0 +8.3  61.9 12.0  99   100  4.2  25.00 0.342
002.20 4177 +19.2 4.2   99   60   0  25.0 +8.6  67.7 13.8  99   100  4.3  25.00 0.343
002.24 4135 +20.6 4.2   99   70   0  25.0 +7.9  67.7 12.4 100   100  4.2  25.00 0.318
002.28 4001 +22.9 4.3   99   80   0  20.2 +7.9  71.4 11.5 100   100  4.3  20.19 0.329
002.34 4090 +23.9 4.3   99   90   0  18.9 +7.4  80.3 11.0 101   100  4.4  18.91 0.302
002.38 4225 +24.3 4.3   99   90   0  15.3 +7.4  81.7 10.7 101    90  4.3  15.26 0.292
002.43 4251 +24.3 4.3   98   90   0  13.5 +7.6  79.7 10.7 101    90  4.3  13.51 0.298
002.47 4255 +24.5 4.3   99   90   0  12.8 +7.5  82.1 10.7 101   100  4.3  12.81 0.294
002.52 4360 +24.3 4.3   98   90   0  12.6 +6.7  84.1 11.2 101   100  4.3  12.57 0.256
002.57 4429 +24.3 4.3   99   90   0  12.5 +7.1  83.2 11.1 101   100  4.3  12.53 0.267
002.62 4469 +24.3 4.3   99   90   0  12.5 +7.2  85.3 11.2 101   100  4.3  12.51 0.269
002.66 4506 +24.3 4.3   99   90   0  12.5 +7.0  87.2 11.4 101   100  4.4  12.49 0.259
002.71 4563 +24.3 4.4   99   90   0  12.5 +6.9  88.0 11.5 101   100  4.4  12.49 0.252
002.76 4622 +24.3 4.4   99   90   0  12.5 +7.0  89.4 11.4 101   100  4.4  12.46 0.252
002.81 4673 +24.3 4.4   99   90   0  12.5 +7.0  88.8 11.5 101    90  4.4  12.45 0.250
002.85 4748 +24.1 4.4   99   90   0  12.4 +6.9  93.6 11.5 101    90  4.4  12.42 0.242
002.90 4821 +24.1 4.4   99   90   0  12.4 +7.0  90.4 11.5 101   100  4.4  12.37 0.242
002.96 4890 +23.9 4.4   99   90   0  12.4 +6.9  94.2 11.7 101   100  4.4  12.40 0.235
003.00 4951 +23.9 4.4   99   90   0  12.4 +7.4  90.8 11.9 100    90  4.5  12.42 0.249
003.04 5020 +23.7 4.4   98   90   0  12.4 +8.0  92.4 12.3 100    90  4.5  12.42 0.266
003.09 5120 +23.5 4.5   99   90   0  12.5 +8.0  93.0 12.2 100    90  4.5  12.45 0.260
003.15 5156 +23.5 4.5   98   90   0  12.4 +8.0  94.0 12.3 100    90  4.6  12.40 0.259
003.19 5213 +23.5 4.5   99   90   0  12.4 +8.1  94.6 12.6 100    90  4.5  12.42 0.259
003.23 5294 +23.3 4.5   99   90   0  12.4 +8.3  94.7 12.6 100    90  4.5  12.42 0.261
003.28 5309 +23.1 4.5   99   80   0  12.4 +8.4  95.5 13.2 100   100  4.5  12.39 0.264
003.34 5401 +22.5 4.5   99   80   0  12.3 +8.7  96.8 14.1 100    90  4.5  12.33 0.268
003.40 5509 +21.9 4.5   98   80   0  12.2 +8.9  94.8 14.9 100    90  4.5  12.20 0.269
003.44 5544 +21.9 4.5   99   80   0  12.1 +8.9  94.6 14.7  99    90  4.4  12.13 0.268
003.48 5575 +21.4 4.5   99   70   0  12.1 +8.8  94.3 15.3  98    90  4.5  12.07 0.263
003.54 5663 +21.2 4.5   98   70   0  12.1 +9.1  92.2 15.9  97    90  4.5  12.05 0.268
003.59 5748 +20.8 4.5   99   70   0  12.0 +9.4  90.8 16.5  97   100  4.5  12.03 0.273
003.63 5805 +20.8 4.5   99   70   0  12.0 +9.6  92.4 16.6  95   100  4.5  11.95 0.276
003.68 5873 +20.4 4.5   99   70   0  11.9 +9.5  89.8 17.1  96   100  4.5  11.89 0.270
003.72 5912 +20.2 4.5   99   70   0  11.9 +9.5  88.9 17.6  94    90  4.5  11.89 0.268
003.79 5847 +20.0 4.5   99   70   0  11.9 +9.9  93.7 17.8  95   100  4.5  11.90 0.282
003.82 5915 +20.0 4.5   99   70   0  11.9 10.2  93.3 18.0  94   100  4.5  11.93 0.287
003.86 6061 +20.2 4.5   99   70   0  12.0 +9.9  94.9 18.2  94    90  4.5  11.97 0.272
003.91 6164 +20.2 4.5   99   70   0  12.0 10.5  92.6 17.6  92   100  4.6  12.04 0.284
003.97 6195 +20.4 4.6   99   70   0  12.1 10.6  94.8 17.7  93    90  4.5  12.12 0.285
004.02 6288 +20.4 4.5   99   70   0  12.2 10.3  94.1 17.8  92    90  4.6  12.17 0.273
004.06 6384 +20.4 4.6   99   70   0  12.2 10.7  93.9 17.8  91    90  4.6  12.18 0.279
004.11 6443 +20.6 4.6   99   70   0  12.2 10.9  96.5 18.0  91   100  4.6  12.22 0.282
004.17 6497 +20.4 4.6   99   70   0  12.3 13.1  94.7 18.5  91   100  4.6  12.25 0.336
004.22 6509 +20.2 4.6   99   70   0  12.3 13.3  94.0 18.7  91    90  4.6  12.30 0.341
004.27 6544 +20.4 4.6   99   70   0  12.3 13.8  96.0 18.8  91   100  4.6  12.30 0.351
004.30 6557 +20.2 4.6   99   70   0  12.3 12.7  95.3 19.0  90   100  4.6  12.28 0.323
004.36 6558 +20.2 4.6   99   70   0  12.3 13.4  97.3 19.3  90   100  4.6  12.25 0.341
004.42 6616 +20.4 4.6   99   70   0  12.2 13.2  98.5 18.9  90    90  4.6  12.23 0.333
004.46 6676 +20.6 4.6   99   70   0  12.2 13.2  98.5 18.4  90   100  4.6  12.20 0.330
004.50 6685 +20.6 4.6   99   70   0  12.2 13.6  99.9 19.6  90   100  4.6  12.15 0.339
004.54 6700 +20.6 4.6   99   70   0  12.1 13.8   0.0 19.4  90    90  4.6  12.10 0.343
004.61 6793 +20.6 4.6   98   70   0  12.0 13.9   0.0 18.8  90    90  4.6  11.98 0.341
004.65 6902 +20.8 4.6   99   70   0  11.9 14.2   0.0 19.0  90    90  4.6  11.91 0.343
004.70 7007 +20.8 4.6   99   70   0  11.9 14.6   0.0 19.5  90    90  4.6  11.85 0.347
004.75 7040 +20.6 4.6   98   70   0  11.8 15.2   0.0 19.5  90   100  4.6  11.79 0.360
004.80 7107 +20.2 4.6   98   70   0  11.7 15.1   0.0 20.2  89   100  4.6  11.71 0.354
004.87 7058 +20.4 4.6   80   70   0  11.6 15.7   0.0 22.5  89   100  4.5  11.63 0.371
it was pretty cold this morning. you can see that i've got to add a touch of fuel in the temp compensations in the utec's speed-density parameters.

i haven't reset the ecu in a while and i had a bit of knock a few weeks ago. still, you can see how much further i'm pushing what i thought was a moderate oem ecu map.

with my 205/60r-16 snow tires and the slight uphill trend on the road i logged on, i'm ballparking my 0-60 in the sub 4.5s range.
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Old 01-17-2007, 11:36 PM   #35
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Damn is that wideband A/F? Why is it so lean?
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Old 01-18-2007, 08:45 AM   #36
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it's lean for a couple of reasons:

1) when it's cold out, the air is more dense. i have not yet programmed any temperature compensations in the utec's speed density parameters. the utec does appear to be applying a first-order correction, but it needs additional tweaking, which is why the compensations are available.

2) you can see i'm awfully close to the limits of my fuel delivery (the "0" in the idc column is static).

3) that was a 1-2 gear pull, and things happen quickly. here's the same morning (yesterday), a few minutes earlier, 4th gear midrange pull on the highway:

Code:
000.79 3518 +21.2 4.1  100   70   0  11.3 +8.8  60.7 13.0 100   100  4.2  11.31 0.417
000.84 3516 +22.7 4.1  100   80   0  11.4 +8.5  64.9 12.5 100   100  4.1  11.35 0.403
000.88 3560 +23.7 4.1  100   90   0  11.4 +8.2  66.9 12.4 101   100  4.2  11.37 0.384
000.93 3561 +24.3 4.1  100   90   0  11.4 +8.3  69.1 12.2 102   100  4.2  11.42 0.388
000.98 3592 +24.7 4.1  100  100   0  11.6 +8.3  71.3 12.0 102   100  4.1  11.55 0.385
001.03 3650 +24.7 4.2  100  100   0  11.6 +8.1  70.6 12.0 102   100  4.2  11.61 0.370
001.07 3659 +24.7 4.2  100  100   0  11.6 +8.2  72.2 12.0 102   100  4.2  11.61 0.374
001.12 3669 +24.9 4.1  100  100   0  11.6 +7.9  74.5 12.0 102   100  4.3  11.61 0.359
001.17 3741 +24.7 4.2  100  100   0  11.6 +8.1  73.4 12.0 102   100  4.3  11.62 0.361
001.22 3809 +24.7 4.1   99  100   0  11.6 +8.1  73.2 12.0 102   100  4.2  11.62 0.354
001.27 3852 +24.7 4.1  100  100   0  11.6 +8.0  73.9 12.0 102   100  4.3  11.63 0.346
001.31 3842 +24.7 4.2  100  100   0  11.7 +8.1  75.0 12.0 102   100  4.3  11.68 0.351
001.36 3833 +24.7 4.3  100  100   0  11.7 +8.1  72.6 12.0 102   100  4.3  11.68 0.352
001.41 3800 +24.7 4.0  100  100   0  11.7 +8.4  74.0 12.0 102   100  4.3  11.68 0.368
001.46 3739 +24.7 4.0  100  100   0  11.7 +8.1  73.4 12.0 102   100  4.3  11.67 0.361
001.50 3733 +24.7 4.1  100  100   0  11.7 +8.5  73.3 12.0 102   100  4.2  11.65 0.379
001.55 3807 +24.5 4.2  100   90   0  11.6 +8.1  72.9 12.2 101   100  4.3  11.61 0.355
001.60 3837 +24.5 4.2  100   90   0  11.6 +8.5  74.0 12.2 101   100  4.3  11.61 0.369
001.65 3797 +24.5 4.1  100   90   0  11.6 +7.9  72.7 12.2 101   100  4.3  11.61 0.347
001.69 3806 +24.7 4.1  100   90   0  11.6 +8.5  75.8 12.2 101   100  4.3  11.61 0.372
001.74 3859 +24.5 4.2  100   90   0  11.6 +8.1  74.9 12.2 101   100  4.2  11.61 0.350
001.79 3884 +24.5 4.2   99   90   0  11.6 +8.1  75.7 12.0 102   100  4.1  11.61 0.348
001.84 3904 +24.7 4.2  100  100   0  11.6 +8.4  76.6 12.2 102   100  4.3  11.61 0.359
001.89 3899 +24.7 4.2  100   90   0  11.6 +8.3  76.5 12.0 102   100  4.2  11.61 0.355
001.93 3891 +24.5 4.2  100   90   0  11.6 +8.4  74.2 12.0 102   100  4.2  11.59 0.360
001.98 3914 +24.7 4.2  100  100   0  11.5 +8.3  77.3 12.0 102   100  4.1  11.53 0.353
002.04 3940 +24.7 4.1  100  100   0  11.5 +8.3  77.6 12.0 102   100  4.3  11.49 0.351
002.08 3976 +24.7 4.1  100  100   0  11.5 +8.2  77.7 12.0 102   100  4.2  11.45 0.344
002.12 4002 +24.7 4.1   99  100   0  11.4 +8.2  79.0 12.2 101   100  4.1  11.42 0.341
002.17 4000 +24.5 4.2   99   90   0  11.4 +8.3  76.6 12.2 101   100  4.1  11.42 0.346
002.23 3955 +24.5 4.2   99   90   0  11.4 +8.2  76.7 12.2 101   100  4.3  11.39 0.346
002.27 3992 +24.5 4.1   99   90   0  11.4 +8.2  77.5 12.2 101   100  4.2  11.39 0.342
002.31 4020 +24.5 4.2   99   90   0  11.4 +8.3  77.8 12.2 101   100  4.3  11.41 0.344
002.36 4060 +24.5 4.2   99   90   0  11.4 +8.3  76.5 12.2 101   100  4.3  11.42 0.341
002.42 4093 +24.5 4.3   99   90   0  11.4 +8.3  78.7 12.2 101   100  4.2  11.42 0.338
002.46 4113 +24.3 4.3   99   90   0  11.4 +8.2  79.1 12.2 101   100  4.2  11.43 0.332
002.51 4127 +24.5 4.3   99   90   0  11.5 +8.1  79.4 12.2 101   100  4.2  11.45 0.327
002.55 4168 +24.5 4.2  100   90   0  11.4 +8.3  78.3 12.2 101   100  4.2  11.43 0.332
002.60 4180 +24.5 4.1   99   90   0  11.5 +8.2  78.6 12.2 101   100  4.3  11.45 0.327
002.66 4130 +24.5 4.3   99   90   0  11.4 +8.1  80.0 12.0 102   100  4.3  11.44 0.327
002.71 4116 +24.5 4.3   99   90   0  11.4 +8.2  80.8 12.2 101   100  4.2  11.42 0.332
002.75 4153 +24.5 4.3   99   90   0  11.4 +8.3  79.9 12.2 101   100  4.2  11.42 0.333
002.80 4191 +24.5 4.2   99   90   0  11.4 +8.1  80.5 12.2 101   100  4.2  11.42 0.322
002.85 4216 +24.5 4.3   99   90   0  11.4 +8.1  81.3 12.2 101   100  4.2  11.43 0.320
002.90 4229 +24.5 4.3   99   90   0  11.5 +8.2  82.8 12.2 101    90  4.3  11.45 0.323
002.94 4272 +24.5 4.3   99   90   0  11.5 +8.3  81.8 12.2 101    90  4.3  11.47 0.324
002.99 4314 +24.7 4.3   99  100   0  11.5 +8.0  82.0 12.2 101   100  4.3  11.48 0.309
003.05 4312 +24.5 4.3   99   90   0  11.5 +8.1  81.3 12.2 101   100  4.3  11.50 0.313
003.09 4312 +24.5 4.3   99   90   0  11.5 +8.2  81.2 12.2 101   100  4.3  11.52 0.317
003.13 4305 +24.5 4.2  100   90   0  11.5 +8.2  82.0 12.2 101   100  4.3  11.53 0.317
003.18 4302 +24.5 4.2   99   90   0  11.5 +8.0  81.7 12.2 101   100  4.3  11.53 0.310
003.24 4304 +24.5 4.3   99   90   0  11.5 +8.2  82.6 12.2 101   100  4.3  11.53 0.318
003.29 4292 +24.5 4.3  100  100   0  11.5 +8.1  84.0 12.0 102   100  4.3  11.53 0.315
003.32 4300 +24.7 4.3   99  100   0  11.5 +8.2  84.3 12.2 101   100  4.3  11.53 0.318
003.38 4335 +24.7 4.3   99   90   0  11.5 +7.3  84.5 12.4 101   100  4.4  11.53 0.281
003.42 4310 +24.7 4.4  100   90   0  11.6 +7.3  82.5 12.3 101   100  4.3  11.57 0.282
003.49 4346 +24.5 4.4   99   90   0  11.6 +7.4  84.8 12.3 101   100  4.4  11.59 0.284
003.54 4393 +24.7 4.4   99   90   0  11.6 +7.5  85.1 12.5 101   100  4.4  11.60 0.285
003.57 4403 +24.5 4.4   99   90   0  11.6 +7.4  85.0 12.4 101   100  4.4  11.59 0.280
003.63 4403 +24.7 4.3   99   90   0  11.6 +7.5  84.6 12.4 101   100  4.4  11.61 0.284
003.68 4426 +24.5 4.4   99   90   0  11.6 +7.4  84.8 12.4 101    90  4.4  11.60 0.279
003.72 4452 +24.5 4.4   99   90   0  11.6 +7.4  86.3 12.6 101   100  4.4  11.58 0.277
003.76 4463 +24.3 4.4   99   90   0  11.6 +7.5  85.4 12.5 101   100  4.4  11.58 0.280
003.81 4474 +24.5 4.4   99   90   0  11.5 +7.2  86.6 12.4 102   100  4.4  11.52 0.268
003.88 4503 +24.3 4.3   99   90   0  11.5 +7.4  86.3 12.6 101   100  4.4  11.52 0.274
003.92 4510 +24.7 4.4  100   90   0  11.5 +7.3  86.8 12.6 101   100  4.4  11.52 0.270
003.96 4560 +24.5 4.3   99   90   0  11.5 +7.4  86.4 12.8 101   100  4.4  11.53 0.270
004.01 4582 +24.5 4.3   99   90   0  11.5 +7.5  87.0 12.7 101   100  4.4  11.52 0.273
004.06 4588 +24.5 4.4   99   90   0  11.5 +7.4  88.2 12.7 101   100  4.4  11.51 0.269
004.12 4627 +24.5 4.4   98   90   0  11.5 +7.4  89.4 12.7 101   100  4.4  11.48 0.267
004.16 4652 +24.5 4.4   90   90   0  11.5 +7.5  89.4 12.7 101   100  4.4  11.47 0.269
004.20 4678 +24.5 4.4   79   90   0  11.5 +7.4  88.5 12.7 101    89  4.4  11.46 0.264
004.25 4685 +24.3 4.4   60   90   0  11.4 +7.5  90.4 12.9 101    89  4.3  11.42 0.267
004.30 4708 +24.3 4.4   49   90   0  11.4 +7.4  87.8 13.0 101    68  4.4  11.36 0.262
004.35 4716 +24.1 4.4   47   90   0  11.3 +7.5  87.5 13.1 101    51  4.3  11.32 0.265
004.39 4715 +23.7 4.3   45   90   0  11.2 +7.6  86.8 13.4 100    51  4.2  11.24 0.269
you can see the afrs are right at mid-high 11s. i'm not too concerned with afrs in the lower gears because, as you can see, 1 and 2 go by in less than 5 seconds. when i apply the temp comps, i want to make sure i don't go over-rich in the higher load gears.

4) leaner makes more powa!
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Old 01-18-2007, 08:56 AM   #37
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Lean is mean, rich is a bitch.
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Old 05-24-2007, 03:46 PM   #38
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update: a few changes.

NEW

OLD

NEW

OLD


  • very light load (0-1.5g) retarded. this seemed to smooth out the jerkiness at very light load, ie, driving along in stop and go traffic on the highway in 1st or 2nd gear, or puttering around in a parking lot, with 1-5% throttle angle. it purposely reduces torque and throttle response to make driving easier and the throttle less twitchy.
  • load of 2g advanced in the cruising area. on my car, 2g is basically 0psig. therefore you can be sure that everything LOWER than 2g is very transient.. ie, if you're at 0.5g and you snap the throttle open, you IMMEDIATELY go to 2g. there's no slow rise to 2g... you hit the throttle and BAM you're at 2g and climbing. when cruising on the highway at the speed limit, load was between -2psig and +5psig, or around 1.7 - 2.75g, and rpm was 3k to 4k. therefore i put a decent amount of advance in that region to retain good fuel economy and throttle response. i did notice that the additional cruising advance netted me lower egts, about 50-100*F worth.
  • quite a bit more timing in the 4.5g and up range. once i determined a good way to translate utec (map load) to oem ecu (maf load), what i did was look at utec logs and reverse-engineer how much additional advance i could get away with. so now, at this point, the oem ecu is running the same advance as the utec. what i plan to do is reduce the advance a degree or two in the 3g and up range, and leave the oem ecu map as a "failsafe" base in case of a bad tank of gas.
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Old 06-02-2007, 01:46 PM   #39
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Ken,
I think your light load timing needs bumped even more.
I tried out the low timing in the .4load area and i like how the engine responds while going 5mph in parking lots, etc.

But, after that I felt the car was boggy a bit. I put in my old timing which was about 5deg more and it feels much more peppy.
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Old 06-07-2007, 11:04 PM   #40
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hey ride, could you do me a favor and post the code snippet of that base map? Or even upload an excel sheet somewhere? I'm trying to compare it to my map, but sure as heck don't feel like typing it all in. Yes, I'm a lazy SOB.

thanks!
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Old 06-08-2007, 07:22 AM   #41
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here you go:

http://ken-gilbert.com/wrx/flash42.hex

that's the currently running map on the car, based on a4tc400l base code.

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Old 06-08-2007, 12:16 PM   #42
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you are the man!
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Old 06-08-2007, 12:24 PM   #43
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damn, I'm guessing you get decent mpg with this map (for daily driving anyway).

You seem to have the same goal as I do - Jekyll and Hyde. Trying to basically build a map to handle 2 opposite driving styles - good mpg and gradual onset of power below a certain throttle position. Then, let hell break completely loose above that.

I Like how you have 0% WGDC below 55% throttle - how is that working out?
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Old 06-12-2007, 12:57 PM   #44
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I am completely new to tuning but saw this in your post that between 5942rpm - 4135 I assume this is where you shifted? that the afr ratio is up to 25. is that what i am seeing?
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Old 06-12-2007, 01:16 PM   #45
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That is a timing map expressed in degrees, not a ratio for air-to-fuel. lol
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Old 06-12-2007, 01:50 PM   #46
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well like i said this is all new to me....man i need to do some major reading.
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Old 06-12-2007, 10:28 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akira02rex View Post
That is a timing map expressed in degrees, not a ratio for air-to-fuel. lol
No it's not (?) -- or at least, it sure looks like AFR to me (assuming he was looking at this log in columns 8 and 15)

I'd guess that this was a fuel shutoff event at the shift, but I've never done an upshift without lifting off the throttle, so I"m not 100% sure what's going on here. Maybe triggered based on the clutch switch?
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Old 06-13-2007, 07:13 AM   #48
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that's right tom.

utec-induced flat foot shifting which is in injector cut mode. when you see LCM in the WDC column it is triggered "on."

hth
ken
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Old 12-08-2007, 01:30 PM   #49
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what size motor do you have...is it a 2.0 still?

Last edited by Wheeler Bement; 12-08-2007 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 12-08-2007, 05:20 PM   #50
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yes... happy to say that despite my abuse it's the same ej205 as rolled off the FHI factory in 2003.
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