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Old 01-30-2007, 01:18 PM   #101
STIStalker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02WRX2.5 View Post
Vids Vids Vids Vids Vids Vids Maybe some Vids, Jeff Vids. I'll ride shotgun
I found this video a few weeks ago about this build. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...44685918888388

Awesome Build Jeff!! I have even more respect for you now that I see you did alot of the work yourself. I saw this car at Subiefest and shook your hand but I had no idea how much work you yourself actually put into it.
Awesome!
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Old 01-30-2007, 02:59 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by PERRINJeff View Post

RS_to_WRX_swap,
Wondered how long that would take for someone to notice. LEts just say its something no one has seen before.

Oh come on!! Secrets don't make friends..lol
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Old 01-30-2007, 03:55 PM   #103
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I might have already posted here before, but it deserves twice if I already did. Amazing job, and I can't wait to see what kind of times it throws down. Looking forward to seeing it run!
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Old 01-30-2007, 04:03 PM   #104
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can i have it?
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Old 01-30-2007, 04:03 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by PERRINJeff View Post
PSM-04-STi,
You can't change the back ground, just the colors of the graphs. Yes, those can be changed, but you still have that ORANGE background! Unless they changed something i wasn't aware of. I have suggested this to Hydra many times, so who knows.
I know I am running the Hydra myself
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Old 01-30-2007, 08:00 PM   #106
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STIStalker,
Ya that is long before the final build. It was plenty fast then, and even scarier now! Thanks for the comments! Like any PERRIN shop car you see, it was built by us. See you at Subiefest2!

aps2fast4u,
You will see something at Subiefest2.

SCOOBIEdoo,
Maybe in August when the 08's come out! It will be for sale then.

PSM-04-STi,
Love the Hydra, and many things about it, but they just have to get rid of the Orange and we are all good.
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Old 01-31-2007, 12:24 PM   #107
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what I want to know, is what the rest of the engine (other than the one piston) looked like after the original build. as in, would that be a viable option for long-term? how about with a little less boost and a little higher CR? like, 10-12psi and 9.0:1....bet it would make for a killer torque curve


this gets me thinking and dreaming in a way that words can't describe....congrats on an awesome build!!!!!
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Old 02-01-2007, 01:12 PM   #108
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Thumbs up You are living the life

I think that ever since they came out everyone has been dreaming of the EZ30 build, but few are actually able to jump into things like that.

Thanks for having the Ba**s to put your car out there and see what happens, very nice write up for an even nicer build. Good luck with the '08 build, and hopefully it will be much easier now! Props to doing something different, and opening doors for the rest of us by getting the parts flowing!

I just droped an '07 STI Longblock into my '02 WRX, and as soon as I get the first 1,000 out of the way (about another week) I will be throwing on an FP green and getting tuned, I can't wait for the results!
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Old 02-02-2007, 08:46 AM   #109
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sorry jeff, I have to post it...

this is how we roll in Aus.



modified semi closed deck EZ30... instead of sleeves.
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Old 02-02-2007, 09:28 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by myliberty View Post
sorry jeff, I have to post it...

this is how we roll in Aus.



modified semi closed deck EZ30... instead of sleeves.
holy sexy engine batman!!! that looks amazing!
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Old 02-02-2007, 09:51 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by myliberty View Post
sorry jeff, I have to post it...

this is how we roll in Aus.



modified semi closed deck EZ30... instead of sleeves.
That's crazy, not to take away from Jeff's thread, but please tell us more how you did this!!!

How deep are the supports you put in?
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Old 02-02-2007, 10:15 AM   #112
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/whoo hoo thread jack
hmm i know the sand rail guys have been doing this for years with the ej25e

the real question is semi-closing or sleeving stronger/more cost effective
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Old 02-02-2007, 11:48 AM   #113
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Numbchux,
The other engine was perfectly fine, and that is what i used to build what you see today. Bearings, sleeves, and all that were just fine. The pistons were perfectly but they were Supertech forged pistons. The rods were fine, but as Jeff Sponaugle found out, they are a weak link.

But if you wanted to run the engine stock, i think you could do 400WHP, but it would be on the verge of blowing up!

Going up a little in compression would be fine, but in the end it would limit the amount of boost or power you would get from pump fuel. But on race fuel, that would be a good combo.

The compression ratio we went with is 8.5-1, and with the slightly shorter deck, and heads being milled a little is is somewhere between 8.7 and 8.5.

'02NBLUE,
Balls is easy, i think many people have the drive to do it, but Money! That is the biggest part of this project that people going into it may not quite grasp until you get deep into the project. The cost to do rods and pistons is not too much more than a 4 banger, but when sleeves, and all those other things like headers, and the other custom parts, really add up. Then add labor from someone else doing the work, and the $$ go up quick. For me personally, being able to do all the work cut a huge cost out of it. But a customer walking into a speed shop, saying i want the H6, that is a huge cost to think about.

I don't want to scare people away from doing this, but just to be aware if they are paying someone else to do the work.

Good luck with your build! It will be a huge difference with more displacment, and bigger turbo!

myliberty,
Very nice looking! If there was only more time, we would have left the OEM sleeves and seen what happens. But time forced the sleeves apon us. No big deal, it just adds a little more durability to the build.

The OEM sleeves are about 2/3 the thickness of the STI sleeves. This is just the Iron part of the sleeve. The aluminum part of the sleeve is also smaller than the STI, but HP per cylinder is still lower than the STI, so it should hold up. Key word there..... SHOULD.

Sleeving is stronger, but is it necessary is the question. Jeff Sponaugles engine is going to be all put together tonight, and testing will begin!

It is nice to see others doing this build, but i think this deserves it own thread.

If i decided to build a second block, it will be nothing more than stock sleeves, pistons and rods. I think for 500 daily WHP this is plenty.

My-STI-Rules,
This method is a great alternative to sleeves. The Honda world has been doing this forever and it is very well proven. Normally it is a simple insert that is pressed into the block, then welded, then machined. The above version looks like some blocks added for webbing, then welded then machined. I do like this, and it would save about $3000 for the build.
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Old 02-02-2007, 03:25 PM   #114
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I'm not looking for even 400 whp. nor would I want stock compression, I really like what you've done, but that torque curve makes me cringe.....


but, one more question, it looks like STi rods might work....is this true? did you try them? that's the one thing I haven't been able to get good info, is the rod dimensions.
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Old 02-02-2007, 03:27 PM   #115
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I didn't see listed, but what are you using for drive line components? I assume a stock STi 6-speed is the tranny, but anything special for drive shafts/axles?

-Cliff
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Old 02-02-2007, 03:36 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myliberty View Post
sorry jeff, I have to post it...

this is how we roll in Aus.

modified semi closed deck EZ30... instead of sleeves.
dude, your project is worthy of its own thread as been said before. you really should start it and post a link here.
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Old 02-02-2007, 04:17 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbchux View Post
I'm not looking for even 400 whp. nor would I want stock compression, I really like what you've done, but that torque curve makes me cringe.....


but, one more question, it looks like STi rods might work....is this true? did you try them? that's the one thing I haven't been able to get good info, is the rod dimensions.
The H6 rods are slightly longer. I can measure it exactly when I get home tonight and tell you. You could get a custom piston made that would work, but it would be completly custom, as the small end of the H6 rods is smaller then the small end of the STI rods.

The H6 rods we had made are the same length as the stock rods.

Given the cost of getting the rods made, you could just use an STI length rod, and have a custom piston made to the right compression height and pin size.

Jeff Sponaugle
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Old 02-02-2007, 04:49 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by sponaugle View Post
The H6 rods are slightly longer. I can measure it exactly when I get home tonight and tell you. You could get a custom piston made that would work, but it would be completly custom, as the small end of the H6 rods is smaller then the small end of the STI rods.

The H6 rods we had made are the same length as the stock rods.

Given the cost of getting the rods made, you could just use an STI length rod, and have a custom piston made to the right compression height and pin size.

Jeff Sponaugle
hmmm....very interesting....very very interesting.

Thanks!!
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Old 02-02-2007, 11:27 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by PERRINJeff View Post
The OEM sleeves are about 2/3 the thickness of the STI sleeves. This is just the Iron part of the sleeve. The aluminum part of the sleeve is also smaller than the STI, but HP per cylinder is still lower than the STI, so it should hold up. Key word there..... SHOULD.
I am going to have to disagree on the thickness, from my eyeball and pictures I took, all of which are in my thread, the OEM sleeve from the H6 and the STi sleeve looked identical in thickness at the access hole. I don't see any reason why the taper would be much different internally but who knows as we never cut one apart, unless you have since then. THe exact numbers are somewhere in my thread but overall aluminum sleeve thickness at the top is only like a .7mm difference with much less hp per cylinder(I know you know this cause it was a point of discussion we had, haha). So yea, I agree it should hold up, just wanted to add that observation because originally we assumed and i was told it was a lot less thick, but no one had checked, so I checked and saw no difference. I could have been wrong though, but my eye is accurate enough to pick up on a 1/3 difference in thickness.

that is all. continue with technical discussion.

Ben
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Old 02-03-2007, 12:27 AM   #120
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its nice to see suby's hitting 550hp, soon we will be up there with supras breaking 1000s
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Old 02-03-2007, 02:11 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by PHATsuby View Post
... with much less hp per cylinder ...
Ben
Not to be too pedantic, but it's probably more meaningfull to think in terms of BMEP, or boost vs. timing, than hp/cyl. The reason is that, although these cylinders have less hp each, they are also each smaller, so that physical force is spread out over less space.

Imagine if you tried to get 100 hp/cyl out of a 2cc model airplane engine or something.

Even hp/liter is more usefull when talking about how physically-stressed an engine is, for that reason.
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Old 02-03-2007, 02:52 AM   #122
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Very thorough write up, im very impressed with what you have managed to achieve. congrats! Some vids with some roll ons and incar footage would be awesome.
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Old 02-04-2007, 01:08 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by SaabTuner View Post
Not to be too pedantic, but it's probably more meaningfull to think in terms of BMEP, or boost vs. timing, than hp/cyl. The reason is that, although these cylinders have less hp each, they are also each smaller, so that physical force is spread out over less space.

Imagine if you tried to get 100 hp/cyl out of a 2cc model airplane engine or something.

Even hp/liter is more usefull when talking about how physically-stressed an engine is, for that reason.
Point taken, I guess the next thing would be to determine surface area and how much stress is distributed per square inch of the H6 vs the H4? The H6 runs less timing obviously than the 4 cylinder.

I'll leave the calculations up to you cause you are the smart one. Or maybe I missed your point?

Ben
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Old 02-04-2007, 03:09 AM   #124
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Point taken, I guess the next thing would be to determine surface area and how much stress is distributed per square inch of the H6 vs the H4? The H6 runs less timing obviously than the 4 cylinder.
Less timing than even the 2.0? Same displacement/cylinder. It must be more efficient.

Don't need to worry about square inches. The twist of the crank will also affect it; not just the pressure. So the best method is probably hp/liter ... or maybe torque/liter. Either way.

Back to the regular discussion.
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Old 02-04-2007, 05:52 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Numbchux View Post
I'm not looking for even 400 whp. nor would I want stock compression, I really like what you've done, but that torque curve makes me cringe.....


but, one more question, it looks like STi rods might work....is this true? did you try them? that's the one thing I haven't been able to get good info, is the rod dimensions.
H6 Rods:
5.180" long (center to center)
.8665" small end diameter
2.1650 big end diameter

STI Rods:
5.138" long (center to center)
.905" small end diameter
2.1650" big end diameter

Note the H6 rod length is the same as the 2000+ SOHC 2.5L non-turbo rods. However the small end diameter is smaller then any other Subaru rod I know of.

So you could use US STI rods, but you would need to get a custom piston that us the STI pin diameter as well as a custom comp height since the rod is a bit shorter.

Jeff Sponaugle
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