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Old 08-11-2005, 09:27 PM   #1
sajohnson
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Default Thoughts on Toyo Proxes T1R Tires

About 2 weeks ago I had a set of T1R's put on my WRX. They replaced Goodyear GS-D3's.

Initially, I was very disappointed with their handling -- the steering seemed vague, and the cornering response reminded me of my Dunlop Winter Sport M3's. There was a delay between the front end reacting to steering input and the rear end following and taking a 'set' in a corner.

I checked the pressures, and although I had told both the service manager and the tech that I wanted 35 psi in front and 30 in the rear, they were all at 32 psi. I tried 35/30 psi and that helped some, but they still felt soft and 'squirmy'.

I've since bumped the pressures up to where they are now 39/33. The handling and turn-in are better but still not what I was used to.

Then I realized (and this may be obvious to many of you) -- whenever we get new tires, we can't really fairly compare them to the old ones. Because the older tires probably had very little tread left, they would of course handle better -- that's the reason some people have tires 'shaved'.

I also remembered that I was disappointed with the GS-D3's when I first had them installed -- they seemed comparatively loose and vague feeling compared to the Firestone SZ-50 EP's that they replaced. Thinking back, the Goodyear's got progressively better as they wore down -- it was only when they got close to the wear bars and started to be more prone to hydroplaning that I replaced them. If I lived in Vegas or LA I would have left them on for a while longer.

So I'm reserving final judgment on the T1R's for now. They seem to be better after only 2 weeks (about 750 miles). Hopefully, they will get 'tighter' after the tread wears down a bit. They seem relatively quiet, track straight (no tramlining) and ride fairly soft for a "max performance" summer tire. I've only driven in rain once or twice since they were installed but they seem to have almost the same amount of traction on wet pavement as they do on dry. As for hydroplaning resistance, I purposely hit low spot on I-270 where I know water collects and they sliced right through with barely a tug on the wheel -- very impressive (although the GS-D3's would have been about the same when they were new).

Anyone else have an opinion on the T1R's?
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Old 08-11-2005, 10:54 PM   #2
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it's disconcerting to hear that you're relatively disappointed in the T1-R's. I was considering getting a set next.

I currently have the T1-S's, and I've been pretty pleased with them. I have never tracked my car and do mostly local/city driving, but the T1-S's have been good all around tires. Their sidewalls are a little soft, and I thought the new T1-R's supposedly addressed that shortcoming.

As for your tire pressure settings, what size are you running? 30psi sounds pretty low, so I assume some sort of 16"?? Also, a 5psi variation is pretty huge. Most people I know run maybe 2-3psi lower in the rear.

FWIW, I'm on 18x7.5" VOLK LE-37T's w/225-35-18 T1-S's and 47psi front 44psi rear.
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Old 08-11-2005, 11:30 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clsmooth71
it's disconcerting to hear that you're relatively disappointed in the T1-R's. I was considering getting a set next.

I currently have the T1-S's, and I've been pretty pleased with them. I have never tracked my car and do mostly local/city driving, but the T1-S's have been good all around tires. Their sidewalls are a little soft, and I thought the new T1-R's supposedly addressed that shortcoming.

As for your tire pressure settings, what size are you running? 30psi sounds pretty low, so I assume some sort of 16"?? Also, a 5psi variation is pretty huge. Most people I know run maybe 2-3psi lower in the rear.

FWIW, I'm on 18x7.5" VOLK LE-37T's w/225-35-18 T1-S's and 47psi front 44psi rear.

I guess I didn't make myself clear.

I didn't like the Goodyear GS-D3's either -- at first. IIRC, I was very disappointed with them initially, and even considered buying another set of SZ50-EP's (or similar). After a few weeks however, they tightened up. I can only guess that the improvement was due to some of the tread getting worn off.

I'm hoping that the sloppy handling is due to the fact that the T1R's are brand new and have lots of tread depth. As I said, they seem to be firming up already, so I am withholding judgment on their handling characteristics until they have a couple thousand miles on them.

I run the stock size on the stock rims -- 205/55-16. SOA recommended pressure is 32/29 psi. I've found that the WRX feels more neutral (less understeer) when the difference between front and rear tire pressures is about 5 to 8 psi (YMMV). I'm still experimenting. The Goodyears initially needed about 8 psi differential, say 38/30 psi. As they wore, I found I could reduce the pressure to about 36/31 psi.

I'm not familiar with the size tire you're running. My guess is that there would be a big difference in optimum pressures for different size tires. So 47/44 psi might be the best for your set-up, but I'm afraid if I go much higher with the tire pressure I will end up both reducing the size of the contact patch and wearing out the center of the tread.

Anyway, if you're happy with the T1S's, you will probably like the T1R. I think that a lot of my initial disappointment is due to the fact that the tires have full tread depth and therefore aren't quite as well 'planted' as a similar tire with less tread would be.

I'll post again if anything changes.
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Old 08-12-2005, 10:03 AM   #4
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I had the same initial reaction with the T1-s. They were squirmy due to the deep tread in the beginning. After they wore down a little, I found higher tire pressures really help them shine, esp. with a front biased pressure (higher in front than rear by like 3 lbs or so). I usually keep them around 39-40 in the front and 36-37 in the rear, seems to work well for me. They are a step down from the stock sti tires however. Nothing short of an R-compound will satisfy someone used to the stock STi tires and the stiff sidewall. T1-s has pretty soft sidewalls in comparison, and from what I hear, the T1-r isn't all that much stiffer than the T1-s in the sidewall.

You might want to try an S0-3 next time....stiffer sidewall, less squirm from my experience.
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Old 08-12-2005, 11:15 AM   #5
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How many miles have you put on the new tires?
Remember that new tires have mold releasing agent on them. Takes a little while to wear it off.
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Old 12-22-2005, 02:57 PM   #6
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Hey there, any updates on these tires... I'm going to need a replacement for the A046s next year, and am looking for something that will be a little quieter, and not lose too much performance.
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Old 12-22-2005, 03:10 PM   #7
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I take it none of you have heard of "scrubbing in" then. It'll take at least 1000 miles.

Personally I really liked the T1-S because of the performance + price aspect. Oh, and the correct pressures are the ones written on the tyre wall.
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Old 12-22-2005, 05:36 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takashi
Hey there, any updates on these tires... I'm going to need a replacement for the A046s next year, and am looking for something that will be a little quieter, and not lose too much performance.
I'm not familiar with the A046s, but I can say that the T1-R's are very quiet and relatively smooth riding for a summer tire.

I don't think CR has rated the A046s, but I'm not sure. I do know the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 was the top-rated performance tire in CR's testing, followed by the T1-R. To find out how the A046s compare you might check Tire Rack, or perhaps a car mag has done a comparo, although I always take any info from a commercial source with a couple grains of salt.

If I were buying tires today I would probably go back to the GS-D3's although the T1-R's have gotten significantly better as I've put some miles on them.

Still, IMO, a driver should not have to 'break-in' a tire or rub off mold release agent before getting the max. performance from them. My first two sets of summer tires required no 'break-in at all. They were Bridgestone Potenza RE 730's and Firestone SZ-50 EP's.

Last edited by sajohnson; 12-23-2005 at 01:21 AM.
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Old 12-22-2005, 05:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan B
I take it none of you have heard of "scrubbing in" then. It'll take at least 1000 miles.

Personally I really liked the T1-S because of the performance + price aspect. Oh, and the correct pressures are the ones written on the tyre wall.
"...the correct pressures are the ones written on the tyre wall."

Huh?

The pressures on the tire sidewall are the maximum safe cold inflation pressure, which is almost always higher than the mfr. recommended pressure.
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Old 12-22-2005, 05:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takashi
Hey there, any updates on these tires... I'm going to need a replacement for the A046s next year, and am looking for something that will be a little quieter, and not lose too much performance.

....forget it....stick with the A046's....the Toyo's are mush in comparison....hell just about all tires(except the 070's and and Advans, and mebbe the 615's) are mush in comparison
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Old 12-22-2005, 08:11 PM   #11
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Yeah, I was actually thinking about the rt615s as well... But honestly the treadpattern frightens me; they must suck in the rain.
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Old 12-22-2005, 08:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sajohnson
I'm not familiar with the A046s, but I can say that the T1-R's are very quiet and relatively smooth riding for a summer tire.

I don't think CR has rated the A046s, but I'm not sure. I do know the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 was the top-rated performance tire in CR's testing, followed by the T1-R. To find out how the A046s compare you might check Tire Rack, or perhaps a car mag has done a comparo, although I always take any info from a commercial source with a couple grains of salt.

If I were buying tires today I would probably go back to the GS-D3's although the T1-R's have gotten significantly better as I've put some miles on them.

Still, IMO, a driver should not have to 'break-in' a tire or rub off mold release agent before getting the max. performance from them. My first to sets of summer tires required no 'break-in at all. They were Bridgestone Potenza RE 730's and Firestone SZ-50 EP's.

I'm actually a little disappointed with the reviews on the T1R's... When the rumors were generating, it sounded like a great tire.

Anyhow, the A046 is the stock Advan tire that comes on the Evo. They are extremely stiff and stick like glue. These are part of the reason the Evo has such a great feel... however, they also ride harsh and are noisy. So I was hoping to get a tire with a little more compromise, but not detract too much from performance.

I've heard that the KDs are good too... A little pricey though I think.
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Old 12-22-2005, 09:27 PM   #13
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http://www.caranddriver.com/article....page_number=13

Good Review on Tires if you havn't already seen it...
TireRack.Com has the GS-D3s on sale for 128.00 each, i was |--| close to buying a set until i read the many replys to my many posts last night... I need Dry condition priority, not wet as much, but there cheap, and seem good for the money.
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Old 12-22-2005, 09:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sajohnson
Still, IMO, a driver should not have to 'break-in' a tire or rub off mold release agent before getting the max. performance from them. My first to sets of summer tires required no 'break-in at all. They were Bridgestone Potenza RE 730's and Firestone SZ-50 EP's.

What kind of statement is that?

Hey, IMO I should be able to redline from a cold start every day with no extra wear on my engine.

Dude, some things just ARE. They can't cast tires without greasing the mold or the tires wouldn't come out.

You may think your potenza's and firestones didn't need break in, but you're wrong. Maybe you didn't ruin them, but they'd likely have been better off if you had broken them in...
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Old 12-22-2005, 09:54 PM   #15
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....I'd like to know how some of the tires in the tire rack----er...CD test would have done if they had used more than 33/30 for pressures in the tires
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Old 12-23-2005, 02:15 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poison
What kind of statement is that?

Hey, IMO I should be able to redline from a cold start every day with no extra wear on my engine.

Dude, some things just ARE. They can't cast tires without greasing the mold or the tires wouldn't come out.

You may think your potenza's and firestones didn't need break in, but you're wrong. Maybe you didn't ruin them, but they'd likely have been better off if you had broken them in...
To answer your question, it is a statement of FACT.

For whatever reason, some tires seem to perform well from day one, while others improve gradually over the first 1,000 miles or so.
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Old 02-28-2007, 11:40 PM   #17
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Hey sajohnson, how are your impressions after a year or so? Did they eventually give you better results or still prefer the GS-D3's?
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Old 03-01-2007, 01:05 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornswoggler View Post
Hey sajohnson, how are your impressions after a year or so? Did they eventually give you better results or still prefer the GS-D3's?
I'd have to say I prefer the GS-D3's.

I started another thread recently called:

"Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3's still the best all-around summer tires?"

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1208267

You may want to check that out. The T1-R's are getting down to the wear bars and I'm trying to decide whether to go back to the GS-D3's or try something else. I'm considering the Continental Conti Sport Contact 2's, but still not sure.

There are a lot of knowledgeable posts in that thread, and some good test data.
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Old 03-01-2007, 01:41 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sajohnson View Post
I'd have to say I prefer the GS-D3's.

I started another thread recently called:

"Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3's still the best all-around summer tires?"

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1208267

You may want to check that out. The T1-R's are getting down to the wear bars and I'm trying to decide whether to go back to the GS-D3's or try something else. I'm considering the Continental Conti Sport Contact 2's, but still not sure.

There are a lot of knowledgeable posts in that thread, and some good test data.
The new 3's are supposed to be a much better tire than the 2's
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Old 03-01-2007, 01:49 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
The new 3's are supposed to be a much better tire than the 2's
Thanks for the tip!

Any reviews/tests yet?
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Old 03-01-2007, 05:15 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sajohnson View Post
Any reviews/tests yet?
http://www.adac.de/Tests/Reifentests...cePageID=8772#

ADAC is the German Auto Club. The SportContact3's test very well in the dry in this test - the lower the numbers in the table the better - but not as good in the wet as previous tests on the SportContact2's. It could be that Continental has decided that it should target the performance of the PS2's instead of the GSD3's with their new design, or the parameters of the test did not favor the 3's for some reason.

the Bridgestone RE050A's look really good in this test!

Personally, I'm going to wait on the 3's until some more test results appear, hopefully with the Falken FK452's in the mix as well. One thing about both the 2's and the 3's - incredibly light for those that are interested in that aspect of performance, i.e. better handling on poor surfaces due to lower unsprung weight. Continental has really taken the light tire crown away from Toyo in the last few years.
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Old 03-01-2007, 01:53 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ripvw View Post
http://www.adac.de/Tests/Reifentests...cePageID=8772#

ADAC is the German Auto Club. The SportContact3's test very well in the dry in this test - the lower the numbers in the table the better - but not as good in the wet as previous tests on the SportContact2's. It could be that Continental has decided that it should target the performance of the PS2's instead of the GSD3's with their new design, or the parameters of the test did not favor the 3's for some reason.

the Bridgestone RE050A's look really good in this test!

Personally, I'm going to wait on the 3's until some more test results appear, hopefully with the Falken FK452's in the mix as well. One thing about both the 2's and the 3's - incredibly light for those that are interested in that aspect of performance, i.e. better handling on poor surfaces due to lower unsprung weight. Continental has really taken the light tire crown away from Toyo in the last few years.
Good point about the weight -- that is something I've been looking at in addition to the tread wear ratings, etc. Everything else being about equal, that might tip the scale toward Continental.

From the test results above, I would probably stick with the 2's. Who knows, maybe there will be a price drop since the 3's are (presumably) replacing them.

I'm going to wait a bit longer myself. The Toyos still have some tread left above the wear bars and I've still got the winter tires on right now.

The saga continues...
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