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Old 05-06-2007, 05:56 PM   #26
cellobro
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hmmm sr-30+640cc=?
I has teh Endless BBK.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RP31 View Post
As am I.
still

fuel ratios. bsfc. all that stuff. yeah I know, READILY available on the 'net, perhaps even organized FREE in a classroom format.

...but, it's so much easier for me to get that sort of info in a class. dude gave a method PLUS safeguards. I'm very satisfied. Ecutek (in my garage) here I come.

results +/- to be posted, regardless
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Old 06-15-2007, 06:24 PM   #27
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so, here's an update for ya, RP31, went back to stock bov ('bout time), put in a new dogbone also, put it all together, it was fine...

but then I decided to start adjusting my a/f ratios... no true improvement, so I figure I must be doing it wrong.


what fun it was to find out at Pompeii that I was clueless about a REAL OBVIOUS boost leak... funny how I couldn't figure out how to stabilize my a/f's...

SO... after getting my clock cleaned, gonna construct the shade-tree pressure tester and figure this out. OH, and do my very first oil change...

nothing like learning in public...
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Old 06-16-2007, 04:07 PM   #28
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hmmm sr-30+640cc=?
I has teh Endless BBK.

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re-update (where is dis guy??)

did my oil today, FOR THE FIRST TIME... Drink showed me several tricks & pointed out how to maintain an exhaust at the smae time as oil changes... B got his up/dp done, the heat was FUN...
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Old 06-16-2007, 04:15 PM   #29
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re-update (where is dis guy??)
Am I "dis guy?" Or wrxzboost? I didn't have anything to write, just reading your updates...
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Old 06-16-2007, 07:18 PM   #30
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^^^ yup, that'd be you

yeah, just laughing at the difference btw. what I thought I knew and what I actually know...

I know this: not knowing my way around my own car is foolish, period.
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:49 PM   #31
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unsolicited update:
fixed leak w/APS pipe, did turbo swap w/mods, of course Afr=rich...

but can't pull fuel. ecu at idle leans out so bad car wants to cut out...

gonna do more research, find out if Ecutek is locked (I doubt it) or if closed loop is issue (doubt that too)

*sigh* stand-alone in my future, methinks
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Old 07-24-2007, 01:27 AM   #32
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Did you upgrade injectors? Could be a latency thing.
What size maf pipe are you running, might have skewed your maf tables.
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Old 07-24-2007, 05:42 AM   #33
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^^^ ok, I'll be searching 'latency', the new injectors are 640 cc

yup, the APS maf pipe (wait a minute, yer talking about the piece btw. the maf sensor & the inlet pipe? accordian-like S-shaped piece?)

EDIT: yeah, the extra air occured to me, along w/extra fuel. I was expecting Openecu to let me make adjustments, but it leaned out,
BOTH when I pulled a point of fuel AND when I changed injector values.

...now, ANYONE knows that you have to change AT LEAST these values (injector size, a/f) but somehow I cannot find the set-up for changing the fuel pump...

the search continues...

Last edited by cellobro; 07-24-2007 at 05:58 AM.
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Old 07-24-2007, 08:34 AM   #34
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hmmm sr-30+640cc=?
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ok, this is why I like studying...

Deatschwerks makes at least 2 forms of this size, these SHOULD share latency #s w/wrx & Sti injectors.

SHOULD. perhaps this eliminates one variable...
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Old 07-24-2007, 10:31 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cellobro View Post

ok, this is why I like studying...

Deatschwerks makes at least 2 forms of this size, these SHOULD share latency #s w/wrx & Sti injectors.

SHOULD. perhaps this eliminates one variable...
Dude, you need to start with baby steps. Do one thing at a time and make sure its working before going the next step. Unless you are really good at it or have the help of someone with lots of tuning experience you really should do things in the following order and before going on to the next step make sure it is running right.

1. Injectors.
2. Intake.
3. turbo.
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Old 07-24-2007, 10:52 AM   #36
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hmmm sr-30+640cc=?
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...yer expecting me to disagree...?? we put the parts in, it was in pieces so we took a deep breath and dove. they're in there. this is where I'm at.

got a suggestion, other than a time machine, or no...?
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:14 AM   #37
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Ok, So the intake is using a stock sized maf?
And you have adjusted your latency now and injector size according to what DW said?

There is no adjustment for fuelpump. All thats gonna do is keep you from running lean up top. If your lean at idle its either an injector thing, incorrect injector size or a funky maf value that is putting your motor/ecu in a weird load area.

Do you have your map pulled? Want me to take a look at it? I'm no expert though, just might be the fresheyes your looking for. (I had to learn how to tune for the first time on a car with a big maf, 800cc injectors and effed up ecutek values...so I kinda have been there done that)
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Old 07-24-2007, 12:08 PM   #38
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hmmm sr-30+640cc=?
I has teh Endless BBK.

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^^^ bwa-ha-ha-ha...!! yep, sounds familiar...

...and no, I did not adjust the latency values, I am just no longer presuming that is the issue, until further notice...

yeah, maf sensor is stock, but it's in an APS cai, so there is a lot of breathing going on.

Openecu is not um, effective in changing injector size, warmed-up & at idle, the injector change for 650cc translated into a leaning-out that was alarming.

Ecutek issue? Closed loop issue? intake removal issue...? hmmm...
I'll see about a map, clearly the one in there now is not effective.
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Old 07-24-2007, 12:30 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cellobro View Post

...yer expecting me to disagree...?? we put the parts in, it was in pieces so we took a deep breath and dove. they're in there. this is where I'm at.

got a suggestion, other than a time machine, or no...?
I realize that you have already installed everything, the big problem with your setup now is new injectors and an aftermarket intake. While I have not done an intake myself, from what I understand doing this at the same time as injectors is fairly difficult and most recommendations from the enginuity forums are to go back to stock intake, tune the injectors, then put the aftermarket intake back on and then tune for that.

Problem is you are dealing with injector scale and injector latency tables on top of the intake tables that need to be modified, all of which affect fueling.

If I were you I would put the stock intake back on, tune for the injectors, then go back to the aftermarket intake and tune for that. Failing that I would enlist the help of more experienced people.

Cobb has a good tuning writeup that gives some good info on tuning for injectors/intake. I'll see if I can dig it up.
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Old 07-24-2007, 12:33 PM   #40
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So the car still wants to choke out? You might have a vac leak somewhere. When I blew the vac line off the turbo, the car idled rough and would die if there was small throttle input.
I just looked up the latency, looks like they are modded stockers. You might wanna put in a injector number slightly smaller for the time being to get the car to idle.
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Old 07-24-2007, 12:39 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by cellobro View Post
^^^ bwa-ha-ha-ha...!! yep, sounds familiar...

...and no, I did not adjust the latency values, I am just no longer presuming that is the issue, until further notice...

yeah, maf sensor is stock, but it's in an APS cai, so there is a lot of breathing going on.

Openecu is not um, effective in changing injector size, warmed-up & at idle, the injector change for 650cc translated into a leaning-out that was alarming.

Ecutek issue? Closed loop issue? intake removal issue...? hmmm...
I'll see about a map, clearly the one in there now is not effective.
Were you tuned for your current intake setup (all of it)? If so you can try to get the injectors settings figured out without swapping anything. If you have changed anything in your intake path (maf and forward) you may want to put whatever you were tuned for back on.

And not changing the latency for bigger injectors would definitely cause a leaning out. The latency tells the ECU how long it takes for the injectors to open. Bigger injectors tend to take longer to open. This means that the ECU needs to open them sooner to get the amount of fuel that it expects.

For your closed loop settings I don't think this is your problem. To be on the safe side however I would zero out the "Closed Loop Delays" table under "Closed Loop" in enginuity. That will force the ECU to use the fuel tables to determine when to run in closed loop.
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Old 07-24-2007, 12:41 PM   #42
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I would do this if possible. If not, its not real hard. Just a PITA with lots of one step forward two steps back. Does this intake use the stock airbox or is it a real deal CAI?


Quote:
Originally Posted by brettm View Post
from what I understand doing this at the same time as injectors is fairly difficult and most recommendations from the enginuity forums are to go back to stock intake, tune the injectors, then put the aftermarket intake back on and then tune for that.

If I were you I would put the stock intake back on, tune for the injectors, then go back to the aftermarket intake and tune for that.
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Old 07-24-2007, 12:41 PM   #43
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Here ya go, check this document out:
http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31091
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Old 07-30-2007, 05:18 PM   #44
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Ok, a bit of an update:

650cc injectors, sr-30 turbo, APS cai/turbo inlet/equal-length headers, tbe.

noOb-assed me can't figure out why Openecu won't pull fuel from my Ecutec reflash, 'cuz of course I'm running rich. Pulling from the saved fuel map caused crazy leaning, gave that up.

Changed the fuel injection parameter (duh) but it leaned out EVEN WORSE... gave up on that...

realized that other stuff could affect all this, but ecuflash only can do so much, so I'm considering other 'options'...

meanwhile, used a coupla backdoor methods to reduce fuel waste under throttle, but mostly I added to the boost tables, at least all that extra fuel will serve a purpose...

mostly what I see is that there is no easy or bloodless way to 'learn': either yer gonna skin yer knuckles or you'll pay someone else to do it. I just adjusted some kid's idle 'cuz a local shop left him stalling when he lifted...

it ain't the perfect way to go about it, doing all these mods THEN learning how to tune it , but I'm not alone & I prefer street cred/gravitas to being the baby I usually am about this stuff

cross-fingers, gonna finish the fmic tomorrow, too
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Old 07-30-2007, 05:30 PM   #45
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Send me your map, I can make it better(or at least try )
I'm curious to whats making tuneing this setup so hard.

So what did you put in for injector size? You keep them stock? your latency is still stock, right?
I'm curious to what your maf tables look like, because IMO thats the devils table. Once your start playing with that...its all downhill. Unless you really understand how to mock the curve subaru's engineers developed.
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Old 07-30-2007, 05:39 PM   #46
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^^^ that's the thing, I don't have a 'map', all's I got is the 'stock' one I saved in the beginning (like BrettM suggests)

Not trying to mess w/maf at this point, keeping this as simple as possible. fuel until it makes sense & I stop wasting gas at stoplights ( ), timing after to realize the potential...

turns out there are a couple ways to fool w/fuel...

thanks, will continue to update, success or, well, otherwise...

fwiw, I'm running pig rich at times, anti-knock seems 'built-in'
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Old 07-30-2007, 05:42 PM   #47
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Well if your super rich, increase the injector size till your within 15% learning at idle(at operating temps).
Make sure your learning is at 12 instead of 16 and drive around loging.
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Old 07-30-2007, 05:50 PM   #48
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You shouldn't have to mess with the actual fuel tables until you get the basics worked out. If your car is not coming at least close to the values in the tables (indexed by load and rpm) you need to get your injectors and MAF scaled correctly first.
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Old 07-30-2007, 05:56 PM   #49
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Yeah, you shouldn't touch any fuel table.
Only the injector scaler. I'm not familar with the APS inlet but if its similar to stock size, I can't see much change needed. Considering I ran a bigmaf with stock maf tables (till I rebuilt them). I don't see a reason for you running modded maf tables at least at this time.
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Old 07-30-2007, 07:13 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by brettm View Post
You shouldn't have to mess with the actual fuel tables until you get the basics worked out. If your car is not coming at least close to the values in the tables (indexed by load and rpm) you need to get your injectors and MAF scaled correctly first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorNick View Post
Well if your super rich, increase the injector size till your within 15% learning at idle(at operating temps).
Make sure your learning is at 12 instead of 16 and drive around loging.
yep, that is DEFINITELY making sense to me, not making hay w/fuel maps...

funny thing is, #'s aren't always #'s...
EDIT: going on, will examine f/i sizing... oh, how I miss a stable idle afr...

Last edited by cellobro; 07-30-2007 at 08:45 PM.
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