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Old 01-16-2008, 11:11 AM   #1
benw
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Default Load and Timing on 2.0L stage 2 WRXs... what you seeing?

Tuned a friends car a bit each night over the past few days. Wanted to get some feedback on the numbers. It was a stage 2 catless WRX with a STI TMIC and fuel pump.

max load in 3rd/4th was 2.5/2.6 g/rev
peak boost as mapped was solid 16 psi at 3300 RPM holding until 4800 tapering to 12 at redline
timing was 11 at peak torque rising to 16 at 4800 and increasing to 23 by 6800. (91 octane)
fueling was 10.9 at boost onset tapering to 10.6 at redline.
load looked like a bookshelf from 3600 to 4800.

Just wanted a general "that sounds about right" or "that's all wrong" from these numbers. I would post up a log but I don't have the notebook here.

Ben
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Old 01-16-2008, 11:42 AM   #2
dynamix
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Sounds about right to me with your poor quality fuel. I presume it is knock free ?
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Old 01-16-2008, 11:53 AM   #3
benw
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it will pull -2.11 on rapid tip-in from super low RPMs about 25% of the time. There is also some noisy shift knock, those will probably be dialed out soon. no knock on any of the WOT pulls or 2-3-4 drag strip style simulations.
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Old 01-16-2008, 12:58 PM   #4
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Yeah that is about right for a stage 2 2.0L WRX. I think the last tune I did we got 2.65 max load. I got some good TQ out of it.
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:16 PM   #5
wage0052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benw View Post
Tuned a friends car a bit each night over the past few days. Wanted to get some feedback on the numbers. It was a stage 2 catless WRX with a STI TMIC and fuel pump.

max load in 3rd/4th was 2.5/2.6 g/rev
peak boost as mapped was solid 16 psi at 3300 RPM holding until 4800 tapering to 12 at redline
timing was 11 at peak torque rising to 16 at 4800 and increasing to 23 by 6800. (91 octane)
fueling was 10.9 at boost onset tapering to 10.6 at redline.
load looked like a bookshelf from 3600 to 4800.

Just wanted a general "that sounds about right" or "that's all wrong" from these numbers. I would post up a log but I don't have the notebook here.

Ben
That sounds about right . Every 2.0L WRX I've done has had to taper boost fairly quickly after ~5k, as they run out of fuel up there quickly.
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:22 PM   #6
Brock31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabedude View Post
Yeah that is about right for a stage 2 2.0L WRX. I think the last tune I did we got 2.65 max load. I got some good TQ out of it.
I'm only getting about 2.41 max load

I do have a 4EAT, would that make a difference?
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock31 View Post
I'm only getting about 2.41 max load

I do have a 4EAT, would that make a difference?
Yeah. So do intake temps, humidity, and atmospheric pressure.
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:40 PM   #8
Brock31
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Originally Posted by wage0052 View Post
Yeah. So do intake temps, humidity, and atmospheric pressure.
So, say I'm at sea level (14.7? right) Intake temps were around 65 degrees with low humidity. I would think that these numbers would lead me to reach higher loads?
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Old 01-16-2008, 01:47 PM   #9
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is this 91 or 93 octane? if it's 91, that's a bit richer than it needs to be with that timing. if it's 93, then it's a lot richer than it needs to be.

on CA 91, i can usually run 13-14 degrees at peak torque with an AFR of 11,5:1 tapering to 11:1 at redline (usually around 22-23 degrees). on 93, i usally run about .5 points leaner than that and a few more degrees of timing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by benw View Post
Tuned a friends car a bit each night over the past few days. Wanted to get some feedback on the numbers. It was a stage 2 catless WRX with a STI TMIC and fuel pump.

max load in 3rd/4th was 2.5/2.6 g/rev
peak boost as mapped was solid 16 psi at 3300 RPM holding until 4800 tapering to 12 at redline
timing was 11 at peak torque rising to 16 at 4800 and increasing to 23 by 6800. (91 octane)
fueling was 10.9 at boost onset tapering to 10.6 at redline.
load looked like a bookshelf from 3600 to 4800.

Just wanted a general "that sounds about right" or "that's all wrong" from these numbers. I would post up a log but I don't have the notebook here.

Ben
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Old 01-16-2008, 02:32 PM   #10
benw
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Thanks guys. This car did make good torque. His supervisor has a STI and after riding in this WRX, I got a phone call from him asking where he can buy a turboback and retune the car!


Crazymikie,

Have you found that leaning the car out tends to prevent low to mid load knock? When I first started the fueling, it was around 10.1 at peak torque, and with only 8-9 degrees of advance. the car didn't like it all and would knock here and there. leaning it almost a full point caused that knock to disappear.

I'd go leaner up top, but Oklahoma's pump fuel is notoriously bad. We're also at 1,000 feet elevation so airflow suffers a tad (14.0 psia)
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Old 01-16-2008, 04:02 PM   #11
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you could be getting rich knock or misfires. 8-9 degrees of timing is very retarded so i would say that the car wasn't happy running those AFRs.

mike
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Old 01-16-2008, 04:12 PM   #12
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+1 on the rich knock. I have seen that happen on several cars that I have tuned when I am dialing in the MAF. If the car is too rich (in the 10's usually) I start seeing knock caused by rich conditions. When the MAf is tuned properly and running a more reasonable AFR (11.5-11.7 on 93 oct) then the knock goes away.
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Old 01-16-2008, 06:31 PM   #13
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man, i need work. I can only dream of 2.5 with 16psi and 93, with a dry 55F outside...i need to figure out how to move more air faster
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Old 01-16-2008, 06:40 PM   #14
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i have a 04 wag with built hybrid, 2.5 bored/forged stock heads and pull 3.5 g/rev in 4th with a tdo4, at 19lbs.
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Old 01-16-2008, 07:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazymikie View Post
you could be getting rich knock ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by blkscooby View Post
+1 on the rich knock. I have seen that happen on several cars that I have tuned when I am dialing in the MAF. If the car is too rich (in the 10's usually) I start seeing knock caused by rich conditions.
Running too rich cannot provoke spark knock.
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Old 01-16-2008, 07:29 PM   #16
Master2192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benw
Thanks guys. This car did make good torque. His supervisor has a STI and after riding in this WRX, I got a phone call from him asking where he can buy a turboback and retune the car!


Crazymikie,

Have you found that leaning the car out tends to prevent low to mid load knock? When I first started the fueling, it was around 10.1 at peak torque, and with only 8-9 degrees of advance. the car didn't like it all and would knock here and there. leaning it almost a full point caused that knock to disappear.

I'd go leaner up top, but Oklahoma's pump fuel is notoriously bad. We're also at 1,000 feet elevation so airflow suffers a tad (14.0 psia)
The knock from being too rich with low timing was caused by the extreme EGTs you would see under those conditions. Too rich + low timing = furnace. I haven't seen a 2.0L engine rich knock yet but I have seen 2.5Ls do it on our local 92 at anything richer than 11.3 with a turbo upgrade.

Local fuels play a huge role in what kind of curves you run, my local fuel doesn't like timing even if you richen it up. I run 11.7 AFR at 10 degrees of timing at peak torque and 11.2 and 21 degrees at redline on a Stage 2 WRX.
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Old 01-17-2008, 12:59 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javastiwagon24 View Post
i have a 04 wag with built hybrid, 2.5 bored/forged stock heads and pull 3.5 g/rev in 4th with a tdo4, at 19lbs.
3.8 here. I have the stock catback still.
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