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Old 01-22-2008, 09:20 PM   #1
AbACUZ
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Arrow { JUSTADJUST } - The Camber / Caster Plates Thread -

{ JUSTADJUST } - The Camber / Caster Plates Thread -
This thread is for Camber / Caster Plates
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Keywords : Pillowball Upper Mount, Camber , Caster Plates, topmount , top mount, top hat, tophat, adjustable, selectable, adjust, pillow ball, rear, front, spring top, kaster, kamber, plate, plates, wrx, sti, rs, linear, aero, 92x, impreza, impresa, subaru, saab, suby, scooby,JustAdJust , Just-Ad-Just , Just AdJust, JustAd Just, memory stearing, top hat, top cat, camber max, caster, toe, canter, canted, stearing, handling, improvement, noise, noice, squeeks, bolt, nuts, custom, fabricated, home made, spacer, lict, lowering, lift, rotated ,angled , orientation , slanted, camberplate , casterplate, cmaberplates , camberplates


There are a few things we need to know before we go on:
one is that I may be wrong with some of the info, and info on this thread will change and get added with time, please add and correct me with any input you like.

What is Camber ??
Camber is the angle of the wheel relative to vertical, as viewed from the front or the rear of the car. If the wheel leans in towards the chassis, it has negative camber; if it leans away from the car, it has positive camber.
Confusededed ? yea.. a bit .. read the wiki article for a more detail and better explanation.

What is Caster ??
Caster is the angle to which the steering pivot axis is tilted forward or rearward from vertical, as viewed from the side. If the pivot axis is tilted backward (that is, the top pivot is positioned farther rearward than the bottom pivot), then the caster is positive; if it's tilted forward, then the caster is negative.
Confusededed ? yea.. a bit .. read the wiki article for a more detail and better explanation.

How to we adjust it, well you can always make changes to them the manual way, with tie rods, lateral links, and all that other bunch or metal rods and bolts that are behind the wheel, but that means that you have to have tools, understand the functions of all the items, measure stuff, or you can also use Camber / Caster plates.

Wait .. isn't that the same as the tophat ?
Well.. yea ... it is , but its not. The difference is that the plates are adjustable, and the tophats are not, otherwise the do the same thing. Prevent the struts from poking holes in your hood

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Here im going to paste the info from the Exelent master of FAQs the Unabomber . Please thank him any chance you get !

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=920405

Camber Plates

Camber plates replace the suspension top hats and allow for the adjustment of camber and/or caster. Typically, they feature a spherical bearing for the strut top to bolt through, and the hat portion bolts into the stock locations on the strut tower. Some feature an all metal "race only" design whereas others have some kind of damping built in to allow for some modicum of NVH absorption (lets be honest here, if you're running these then NVH probably isn't on your top list of concerns). The basic premise is the same for all of them; they allow for moving the top of the strut assembly to differ from the stock geometry. This changes the angles of the whole assembly to allow for the addition or subtraction of camber and/or caster.

Sounds simple right? Well, yes and no. While the theory is easy to understand there are some design factors that need to be considered when looking at these plates. There are two prevailing designs, one that allows for just camber adjustment and one that allows for both camber and caster adjustment. Here's how they work:

For just camber adjustment we have to look at the main parts. Aside from the various nuts and bolts there are two pieces that do the work. The first is the strut carrier. This is the part that actually bolts to the strut top. It will typically feature the spherical bearing that the top of the strut goes through and has a shape that makes it look like it has "wings." These wings are what bolt to the adjustment plate. The adjustment plate is typically triangular in shape and at each corner is a captured stud. These studs are what bolt it to the strut tower. In the face of the plate will be three rectangular slots. A large one in the middle, and parallel to this on each side is a narrower slot. The large middle slot accommodates the spherical bearing of the strut carrier, and allows it to stick through the plate. The more narrow slots line up with threaded holes on the wings of the strut carrier. When the assembly is bolted together, it bolts through these slots and into the wings that hold the strut carrier to the adjustment plate. When the entire assembly is bolted into the car, the rectangular slots run perpendicular to the centerline of the car. By sliding the strut carrier along the slots the assembly allows the top of the strut to move in toward or out away from the centerline of the car. This allows for the adjustment of camber by changing the angle of the strut assembly inward or outward relative to the centerline of the car.

It is important to note that while this design allows for just camber adjustment it is possible to install them to allow for camber and caster adjustment, but it will not allow for independent adjustment of each. When installing the adjustment plate, it is possible to turn the plates 120 degrees so that the slots are no longer perpendicular to the car's centerline. Instead by orienting the slots so that they run at an angle to the car's centerline it is possible to adjust the strut top at an angle. This has the effect of moving the top of the strut in/out and back/forward to increase or decrease camber and caster at the same time. Because of the nature of the design when you install it in this manner you cannot adjust camber without affecting caster. While it seems that this configuration may at first glance be the holy grail of caster/camber plates there are some things to consider. First, you cannot adjust one setting without affecting the other (for truly hardcore suspension geeks this is a bad thing). Second, in this configuration you will not be able to set as much camber or caster as you would by going with the second type of plate explained in this document. Racecomp Engineering, Hotchkis, and Cusco make plates that follow this camber only design.

The second type of plate is one that allows for independent adjustment of both camber and caster. The key word here is independent. It's possible to adjust either camber or caster without each affecting the other. There are many different designs when it comes to this type of setup. Some use a "floating plate" design. Some use an elliptical locating plate design. Some use a compound philosophy of the camber only plates. These are the
most common ones, and we'll look at each by specific manufacturer.

The Noltec (MRT units are rebranded Noltec) units use a floating plate design. In this case the strut carrier is a large plate with a spherical bearing in the middle. This plate is sandwiched between two rings. The rings have bolts through them that attach to the stock mounting points on the strut tower. This plate "floats" between the rings until the desired adjustment setting is reached. When the strut tower bolts are tightened the rings clamp on the strut carrier, and hold it in place, thus keeping the floating plate from moving.

The PDE and DMS units use a rather unique elliptical plate with a locator pin to hold the settings. On the strut carrier is a plate with holes bored into it according to an elliptical curve pattern. The strut carrier sits on a strut tower plate, and allows the strut carrier to float in place. By choosing a hole on the elliptical plate it is possible to choose a variety of settings that allow you to set camber and caster independently by predetermined amounts.

The Ground Control plates are very similar to the camber only plates listed above. Just like the camber plates they have a strut carrier that slides in the adjustment plate. The difference is the adjustment plate does not have captured studs. Instead a ring that mounts to the bottom of the strut tower holds the captured studs. The adjustment plate sits on top of the strut tower, and has slots parallel to the car centerline. So essentially, the strut carrier slides in and out on the adjustment plate, and the adjustment plate slides forward and back on the mounting studs.

When considering camber/caster plates there are a couple of other things to think about. Almost all the designs will add ride height to the vehicle due to the thicker than stock design. The two exceptions to this are the units made by Racecomp Engineering and Hotchkis, which are designed with this in mind, and will not raise the overall height on the vehicle. The other thing to consider is alignment settings. You can't just go shoving the top of the strut all over the place without affecting toe, which up until this point we have not mentioned. Before you jump into getting camber/caster plates please understand their full effects, and the principles of alignment adjustment.

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Last edited by AbACUZ; 03-03-2013 at 02:12 PM. Reason: more and more info :) Enjoy, ABA. :)
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Old 01-22-2008, 09:21 PM   #2
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What kind of camber / caster plates are out there:
As far as I have read, and once again I say, please add and correct me with any input you like, there are 4 kinds.

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Stock spring diameter
Camber adjusting plates.
Camber & Caster adjusting plates

------------------------------
Camber plate manufacturers

Racecomp Engineering
>FITMENT: All 2002-6 WRX/STi
>PART #: 102 FRONT
>adjustment range:Camber these units alow up to -3 degrees camber.
>>Height: Lowering and non lowering plates, lower any car by 3/8"
>>Version 1 & 2 : v2 uses a larger bearing to make room for the inset style nut, which in turn has twice the thread engagement of the v1. The v2 now comes with a lower washer and the huge top nut.

Cusco
>FITMENT: FRONT & REAR : All 2002-3 WRX Only. Only fits linear springs, not progressive
>PART #: 658420A REAR
>FITMENT: All 2002-6 WRX/STi
>PART #: 666410A FRONT

Hotchkis
>PART #: 515-30706
(no longer in production)


Whiteline Max-C
>adjustment range: FRONT : camber and caster max -2.25* camber and max +1.0* caster.
>Height: minimal change in ride height.
> Additional: Street

Eibach
>FITMENT: FRONT :All 2002-7 WRX/STi.
>PART #: 5.67650K
>adjustment range: camber & caster -1.25 degree to +1.25 degree, and a caster adjustment of -1.25 degree to +1.25 degree.

Noltec
Front
>FITMENT: FRONT :1993-2006 Imprezas
> Additional: Race or Street
> adjustment range: camber & caster 2.5 degrees

PDE
>FITMENT: FRONT :all aftermarket strut braces
> Adjustment range: camber & caster Up to 3 degrees negative and 1 degree positive
> Additional: Raises ~7mm

HKS
>FITMENT WRX 02-04 Front
> adjustment range:Camber and Caster

Tein
GC6/8 Ft 93-01 2.5RS PAS12-31PFR
GC6/8 Rr 93-01 2.5RS PRS13-31PFR
GC6/8 Rr 93-01 2.5RS PAS13-31PFR
GC6/8 Ft 93-01 For HG, 2.5RS PAS06-31PFR
GC6/8 Rr 93-01 For HG, 2.5RS PRS07-31PFR
GDA-Ft 02-07 WRX PAS28-31PFR
GDA-Rr 02-07 WRX PRS15-31PFR
GDA-Ft 02-07 For HG WRX PAS38-31PFR
GDA-Rr 02-07 For HG WRX PRS39-31PFR
> Additional: Raises ~6mm

Vorshlag
approximately .75* of caster
>FITMENT: All 2002-7 WRX/STi. FRONT & REAR
>PART #:VM-CP-STI-FR


... more to come

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Coilover spring diameter
Camber adjusting plates.
Camber & Caster adjusting plates

------------------------------

Camber plate manufacturers

Racecomp Engineering
> adjustment range: camber -3 degrees camber.

Ground Control
>>Height: Lowering and non lowering plates, lower any car up to 3/4"
> adjustment range: camber & caster
>FITMENT:FRONT
New spring ID - 2.5" - 2.25" - 60 mm

Noltec
>FITMENT:REAR
>FITMENT: '93-'01 Imprezas & '02-'04 Imprezas with coilovers
Fitment Notice: The adjustable strut tops do not include spring perches so they will not fit on the '02+ Imprezas without coil overs

Whiteline Max-C
>FITMENT:FRONT
>adjustment range: camber and caster max -2.5* camber and max +2.0* caster.
>Height: minimal change in ride height.
> Additional: Motorsports


Vorshlag
approximately .75* of caster
>FITMENT:FRONT & REAR : All 2002-7 WRX/STi.
>PART #:VM-CP-STI-FR
more to come

Last edited by AbACUZ; 06-16-2009 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 01-22-2008, 09:21 PM   #3
AbACUZ
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INTERESTING & RELATED links
This is going to take me a long time by myslef. your help is very much appreciated AND needed.


:: PROBLEMS ::
----------------------------------------------------------------

RCE Camber Plates vs. Whiteline Max-C Plates?
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1194841

Noltec street camber/caster strut top failure : by Uncle Scotty
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1154433

Slight Spring Rub, Should I be concerned? : Whiteline Max-C Plates
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1328793

Camber Plate Adjustment Leads to Spring Hitting Body
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1469642

>> MEMORY STREERING PROBLEMS
Can camber plates be lubed on the car? - Updated info
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1481890

steering pulls toward direction of most recent sharp turn
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=528553

Memory steer + Creaking
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1415528

Weird memory-steer
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1402141

PDE camber plate owners--replace your allen head bolts
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1824577


:: REVIEWS & tests::
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RCE camber plates By : BIGSKYWRX
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1055690

Espelir GT + Tokico D-spec + RCE Camber Plates : by Scooby921
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=959442

Crucial springs, Koni inserts, Noltec camber/caster plates
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=932842

MRT castor/camber upper strut mount
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290431

Sneak Peek: New Whiteline Camber/Caster Plates
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1146354

Ground-Control Camber Plates for 60mm ID CO’s
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1699226

:: INSTALATION ::
----------------------------------------------------------------
Noltec (MRT) camber/caster plates by: BigSkyWRX
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showth...ghlight=noltec

RCE Camber Plate Install.
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/suspensi...tall-pics.html

Bilstein PSS9 and Camber plates.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1492593

Tokico D-spec tophat study
Camber caster plate Installation info with D-specs TIC BIG NUTS
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...t=big+nuts+tic


:: OTHER ::
----------------------------------------------------------------

How to modify Cusco front plates for more camber and caster:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=918580

How to modify Noltec front plates for more camber and caster:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=667681
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1281749
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=963948
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1294118

What camber plates 100% work with Tokico D-Specs?
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1450853

noltec plate with prodrive springs
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144345

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::Official Product Description::


Last edited by AbACUZ; 08-18-2009 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 01-22-2008, 10:26 PM   #4
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my review of the RCE lowering plates

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1055690
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Old 01-23-2008, 07:15 AM   #5
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List of known camber plates (I think you got em all already?)
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...eL_KhwEw&gid=2
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Old 01-24-2008, 04:35 PM   #6
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Thank you for the input, added more info,

please help by adding info
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:25 AM   #7
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:08 PM   #8
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IMHO - the best caster/camber plate on the market:

Ground-Control
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:46 PM   #9
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Thank you for the input.

please help by adding info
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Old 02-04-2008, 02:26 PM   #10
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Aren't front strut top mounts compatible between gc and at least 02-04 gd? I had my 02's in my gc8 briefly and they fit. In the rears the bolt pattern is different... There is a thread that talks about strut compatibility between years somewhere here.
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Old 02-04-2008, 02:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMastro View Post
Aren't front strut top mounts compatible between gc and at least 02-04 gd? I had my 02's in my gc8 briefly and they fit. In the rears the bolt pattern is different... There is a thread that talks about strut compatibility between years somewhere here.
The front tops should physically "fit," but the adjusting will be off...like you won't just be adjusting camber...but camber and caster because of the way the plate will be canted in the holes...might not be an issue if you want to adjust both caster and camber.
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Old 02-18-2008, 03:31 PM   #12
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More info Added
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Old 02-28-2008, 02:29 PM   #13
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updated info
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Old 02-28-2008, 02:32 PM   #14
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I don't see the info on the new Vorshlag plates.
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Old 02-28-2008, 02:57 PM   #15
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I was cruising your website and I just added them before you even mentioned it

they look like great parts, do you have info on the camber degree variation
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Old 02-28-2008, 03:31 PM   #16
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also what does Vorshlag mean by adding 1" of suspencion travel ? does that mean it will raise the ride a full inch ?

I can test these too if ya like , heck i'll put 4 different ones, one on each corner, that will make the aligment so much fun ! hehehe
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Old 02-28-2008, 05:14 PM   #17
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Oh yeah Abacuz, check out the totally redundant thread I started about trying to get a comprehensive list of camber plates. Sorry I forgot about this one - but there is info in there.
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Old 02-28-2008, 05:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbACUZ View Post
also what does Vorshlag mean by adding 1" of suspencion travel ? does that mean it will raise the ride a full inch ?

I can test these too if ya like , heck i'll put 4 different ones, one on each corner, that will make the aligment so much fun ! hehehe
They are referring to the stack height. The stackup on these is much less than what you normally find out there.

In fact, we had a customer just throw some on with his KW V3's (yes, they fit those folks), and he ended up having to raise the car 1/2" to get the ride height back to where it way before (I think he was using cusco plates before).

We already got you beat on the testing.
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Old 02-29-2008, 02:33 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtDyno View Post
Oh yeah Abacuz, check out the totally redundant thread I started about trying to get a comprehensive list of camber plates. Sorry I forgot about this one - but there is info in there.

SEARCH!!!!!!


.. oh man .. crazy N00bs !!




now add this thread and the other JustAdJust - Struts thread to the top on one of the suspencion stickies
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Old 02-29-2008, 03:02 PM   #20
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I am a Noobie McNooberson.
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Old 03-10-2008, 03:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbACUZ View Post
updated info
+1 :P

Searching on the forum turns out the newest thread with the topic searched for, not the most relevant or with most content. they should change that search feature .

anyways. bump for people to post questions, comments, concerns , pictures, ideas, recepies ...
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Old 03-13-2008, 02:02 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbACUZ View Post
updated info
yeap, added a couple of threads of interest to the camber plates.
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Old 03-13-2008, 05:46 PM   #23
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Does anybody know if either of the two sets of rear camber plates that I know of - Noltec and Cusco- will work with KW Variant 3 coilovers?

My hunch is no, but I'm receiving conflicting information from vendors of these. The rear setup on these is progressive, and KW provides a rubber/metal perch for the spring top to sit in. I guess there's a chance that a camber plate could work somehow, but I just wanted to know if anybody can say FOR SURE.

btw - I know it's possible to convert these to linear in the rear and use camber plates - I'm currently just wondering about doing this while retaining the progressive springs.

thx. Good thread!
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Old 03-13-2008, 07:43 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by garagedefeat View Post
Does anybody know if either of the two sets of rear camber plates that I know of - Noltec and Cusco- will work with KW Variant 3 coilovers?

My hunch is no, but I'm receiving conflicting information from vendors of these. The rear setup on these is progressive, and KW provides a rubber/metal perch for the spring top to sit in. I guess there's a chance that a camber plate could work somehow, but I just wanted to know if anybody can say FOR SURE.

btw - I know it's possible to convert these to linear in the rear and use camber plates - I'm currently just wondering about doing this while retaining the progressive springs.

thx. Good thread!

If you can post up a picture of the upper perch they provide, and the top of the spring I can tell you pretty quick.
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Old 03-13-2008, 09:06 PM   #25
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^^ will do ^^^

a hearty thanks to a great vendor!

Last edited by garagedefeat; 03-15-2008 at 10:48 PM.
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