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Old 03-14-2008, 04:31 AM   #1
tino
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2004 GT40R-built 2.5
604 whp @1.8 BAR on VP109

Default GT40R pump tune at 26.8 psi boost

Car made 450hp atw on 1.2 bar and full boost at 4800 rpm and we thought it was gonna fly but there seems to be something holding it up somewhere not sure what it could be. We didnt want to push it too far so ended up with 505 hp atw on 1.85 bar (26.8 psi boost).

We have changed the inlet manifold, ported heads, over size valves and larger cams??

All runs were done in 5th gear and on 98 RON BP ultimate in Australia. 98 RON = around 91-93 MON in the U.S.

Engine mods:

2.5ltr (sleeved, CP coated 99.5mm pistons, Pauter rods, machined crank)
GT40R twin scroll turbo with 1.06 rear
1265cc injectors
Fuel rail and regulator
Cosworth 1mm oversize valves
Cosworth springs and retainers
Perrin equal length header with custom twin scroll upipe
perrin FMIC with custom Reversed FMIC piping
Custom intake manifold with 75mm TB..
Cosworth 278/274 AVCS cams
twin walbro in tank fuel pumps
Motec M800



As for driving it is very responsive and 4th and 5th gear is scary fast.. Ill get a better appreciation when there is little traffic around in the days to come..

A couple of issues, the intake coupler needs to be changed to a silcone one, but that was all we could find in short notice. Will order one shortly.

Opinons??










Vid of the 505hp atw run:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyX0XyMXdVk
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Last edited by tino; 04-18-2008 at 08:06 PM.
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Old 03-14-2008, 04:42 AM   #2
benw
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wow! great results for that low octane. how much boost is planned for race fuel?
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Old 03-14-2008, 06:12 AM   #3
Lebanese rally champ
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Good results...
but whats happening with the Black hose between the pipe & the manifold???
i think its leaking maybe???

do u think the +1mm oversize valves did make a difference???

Good Luck
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Old 03-14-2008, 06:52 AM   #4
UniqueTII
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What book did you read while you were waiting for it to spool?

Seriously though, when you say there's something holding it up do you mean the top end or all the way across the board?
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Old 03-14-2008, 07:53 AM   #5
SilverSurfer04STi
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Think he meant something is holding back overall expected power.

Do you have pics of the custom Perrin TS header / uppipe?
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Old 03-14-2008, 07:57 AM   #6
tino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebanese rally champ View Post
Good results...
but whats happening with the Black hose between the pipe & the manifold???
i think its leaking maybe???

do u think the +1mm oversize valves did make a difference???

Good Luck
Its the joiner, not silcone reinforced so it flexes when there is soo much air pushing through it..

Not sure about the valves as i did everything all at once..

Unique... Its really not that laggy on the street.

We think theres a block somewhere as we made 450 hp atw on 1.2 bar and only 505 hp atw on 1.85 bar. We could have pushed it further on pump but my tuner was thinking that it may be too dangerous to do so.. Well leave that to race fuel when we will run 2-2.2 bar to hopefully try and push 600 hp atw...


Either way just driving it on the highway just now, its an absolute weapon and seems it just wants to keep pulling and pulling...
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Old 03-14-2008, 08:01 AM   #7
shvrdavid
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Looking at the power curve, I would degree that cams and see where they are at...
Looks to me like your centerlines are off...
A .65 bar increase in boost pressure should be more than 55 whp...

Thats an interesting printout you got...

You don't see to many that show that low, 42whp @ 2100...
Check your centerlines and go from there...
It will take some experimenting to find the perfect centerline, but it will be well worth the effort in the end...
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Old 03-14-2008, 08:05 AM   #8
tino
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604 whp @1.8 BAR on VP109

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSurfer04STi View Post
Think he meant something is holding back overall expected power.

Do you have pics of the custom Perrin TS header / uppipe?
Nah i dont mate, they coated them and put them on the car before i could do so.. But what i did see of them they look quality..
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Old 03-14-2008, 08:13 AM   #9
tino
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604 whp @1.8 BAR on VP109

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shvrdavid View Post
Looking at the power curve, I would degree that cams and see where they are at...
Looks to me like your centerlines are off...
A .65 bar increase in boost pressure should be more than 55 whp...

Thats an interesting printout you got...

You don't see to many that show that low, 42whp @ 2100...
Check your centerlines and go from there...
It will take some experimenting to find the perfect centerline, but it will be well worth the effort in the end...

Thanks for comment, does this apply for AVCS cams?? ill ask my tuner about that and see what he says..
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Old 03-14-2008, 08:27 AM   #10
Lebanese rally champ
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Crawford Performance S5

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tino View Post
Its the joiner, not silcone reinforced so it flexes when there is soo much air pushing through it..

Not sure about the valves as i did everything all at once..

Unique... Its really not that laggy on the street.

We think theres a block somewhere as we made 450 hp atw on 1.2 bar and only 505 hp atw on 1.85 bar. We could have pushed it further on pump but my tuner was thinking that it may be too dangerous to do so.. Well leave that to race fuel when we will run 2-2.2 bar to hopefully try and push 600 hp atw...


Either way just driving it on the highway just now, its an absolute weapon and seems it just wants to keep pulling and pulling...
Im sure that with racing fuel u'll get some great numbers,coz ur fuel is like ours in Lebanon(Total 98 unleaded) & it is much less octane to 91 california,i think its around 88 octane max

pls do it soon & keep us updated.
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Old 03-14-2008, 08:57 AM   #11
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was there any port work done to the heads?
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Old 03-14-2008, 09:09 AM   #12
tino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
was there any port work done to the heads?
Micah the heads had a slight port and polish...
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Old 03-14-2008, 09:15 AM   #13
blowbyu24
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looking good Tino, i can't wait for your race gas tune....thats what i want 500whp on pump congrats!!!
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Old 03-14-2008, 09:37 AM   #14
tino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blowbyu24 View Post
looking good Tino, i can't wait for your race gas tune....thats what i want 500whp on pump congrats!!!


Theres just something restricting it though.. what could it be is the question??

would a 3inch dump be a restricition i wonder??

Also torque figure seems really low should be around 6-700nm imo..
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Old 03-14-2008, 09:46 AM   #15
blowbyu24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tino View Post
Theres just something restricting it though.. what could it be is the question??

would a 3inch dump be a restricition i wonder??

Also torque figure seems really low should be around 6-700nm imo..
well if you were at 450 @ 1.2 bar you should have been close to 550 at 26psi

theres something not right b/c your power should be climbing way high with the turbo fully spooled...im not sure to what the problem could be....good luck and keep us posted
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Old 03-14-2008, 01:22 PM   #16
Junior2JZ
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25-26psi on pump I make 480-500whp on a DD. 29psi makes 550/60 on c16 and traps 132. 39psi it makes high 600s. I have to remove the muffler for that though.. Dies up top with it on. It doesnt keep climbing either it hits peak power and stays flat to 7500-8000.. This motor has 15,000 miles like this too.. Still runs and doesnt have broken or disrtorted sleeves from running "so much boost"
Single Scroll 4088
Perrin EQ headers
Built 2.0 Heads (All Ferrea parts + bigger valves)
Crower Cams
2.5 stock sleeves, with Carrillo rods, Weisco Pistons, cosworth pump + bearings
Stock reversed intake manifold, throttle body..
Ported TGV housing
3" borla hush
1100 CC injectors
Custom Fuel System
TXS UTEC + Stock ECU
MBC
6spd and a single plate..

Dont worry about the dyno, see how it feels and take it to the track.. I know the graph seems laggy, but I bet it hits like a mac truck
Junior
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Old 03-14-2008, 01:39 PM   #17
cornerbuddy28
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Oh, I've been fortunate enought to get a ride in that car. Awesome setup.

Last edited by cornerbuddy28; 03-14-2008 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 03-14-2008, 02:48 PM   #18
2REDSTARS
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just curious, why was it dyno'd in 5th gear? and also could you be losing pressure from that coupler leaking, and maybe thats robbing power?
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Old 03-14-2008, 05:41 PM   #19
cpturbo
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check for boost leaks first. Then ask your self what the next biggest restriction is. Look closely at the header for leaks and its overall runner size. Maybe the turbo wants more flow than you can give it on the exhaust side. I agree that you should be making >12hp per psi in that range.

I wouldn't tune again until you figure this out.
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Old 03-14-2008, 07:06 PM   #20
engineerx
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^^^ What he said +

The Perrin EL headers make nice power on the smaller turbos, for a large turbo like the GT40, the diameter of the runners on the header are too small in my opinion. They might be restricting flow to that large turbo. I'd try a different header. Didn't read whole thread, maybe some1 suggested this above.
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Old 03-14-2008, 07:29 PM   #21
tino
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604 whp @1.8 BAR on VP109

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2REDSTARS View Post
just curious, why was it dyno'd in 5th gear? and also could you be losing pressure from that coupler leaking, and maybe thats robbing power?
Yeh it was dynoed in 5th gear as for stis that is the closest 1:1 ratio... for wrxs with 5 speeds dynos should be done in 4th gear to get 1:1 ratio
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Old 03-14-2008, 07:36 PM   #22
modaddict
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tino View Post
Yeh it was dynoed in 5th gear as for stis that is the closest 1:1 ratio... for wrxs with 5 speeds dynos should be done in 4th gear to get 1:1 ratio
I wish more people would realize this.

Somehow in the last couple years, it's switched to 4th gear in the sti and 3rd in the wrx
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Old 03-14-2008, 07:36 PM   #23
tino
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2004 GT40R-built 2.5
604 whp @1.8 BAR on VP109

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior2JZ View Post
25-26psi on pump I make 480-500whp on a DD. 29psi makes 550/60 on c16 and traps 132. 39psi it makes high 600s. I have to remove the muffler for that though.. Dies up top with it on. It doesnt keep climbing either it hits peak power and stays flat to 7500-8000.. This motor has 15,000 miles like this too.. Still runs and doesnt have broken or disrtorted sleeves from running "so much boost"
Single Scroll 4088
Perrin EQ headers
Built 2.0 Heads (All Ferrea parts + bigger valves)
Crower Cams
2.5 stock sleeves, with Carrillo rods, Weisco Pistons, cosworth pump + bearings
Stock reversed intake manifold, throttle body..
Ported TGV housing
3" borla hush
1100 CC injectors
Custom Fuel System
TXS UTEC + Stock ECU
MBC
6spd and a single plate..

Dont worry about the dyno, see how it feels and take it to the track.. I know the graph seems laggy, but I bet it hits like a mac truck
Junior

hey junior, have u got a dyno printiout of ur pump run, want to see the torque... i think my toruqe is too low for the power that im running... Also was this with 0.86 or 1.06 rear housing??

And yes it feels very strong to drive, almost scary especially when u hit the bigger gears in the sti.. hahah


cpturbo/ engineerx
Headers could be an issue, in terms of flow. The upipe has also similar diameters but as its a twin scroll is much much larger than a single scroll upipe...

Last edited by tino; 03-14-2008 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 03-14-2008, 07:40 PM   #24
tino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modaddict View Post
I wish more people would realize this.

Somehow in the last couple years, it's switched to 4th gear in the sti and 3rd in the wrx
ITs all about chasing the numbers i feel now, i dont really care about the numbers but what it will do at the 1/4 to give an indication of power...

but in this instance: I believe there is something holding me making more power thus the discussion..

but have been given some good ideas:

1) Cams may need to be centered
2) Headers may be restrictive
3) Manifold may be restrictive
4) Dumpipe may be too small i.e 3" maybe increase to 4" then into 3.5??


Thats what i like about these forums.... any more suggestions will be great as ill throw all these at the tuner and well go from there..
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Old 03-14-2008, 10:23 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engineerx View Post
^^^ What he said +

The Perrin EL headers make nice power on the smaller turbos, for a large turbo like the GT40, the diameter of the runners on the header are too small in my opinion. They might be restricting flow to that large turbo. I'd try a different header. Didn't read whole thread, maybe some1 suggested this above.

Ding ding ding....we have a winner.

The header is way to small
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