Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday August 22, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Member's Car Gallery

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-18-2008, 12:02 AM   #51
tino
Top Scoob 019
 
Member#: 43630
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Down Under
Vehicle:
2004 GT40R-built 2.5
604 whp @1.8 BAR on VP109

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shvrdavid View Post
I measured my exhaust setup...

The smallest diameter on my Ultimate Racing setup is 46mm at the v-band couplers for the up-pipe... Head pipes are 48mm inside diameter...
Yeh thats a nice size but because of restrictions with RHD i could only maximally go 38mm IDA for the twin scroll upipe. So i figured that there was no point going bigger in the headers as it would get shoved back to the smaller diameter..

Also the turbo housing has around that size diameter also for each scroll..

Found a silcone joiner 3" that we stretched over to fit 3 1/8" TB...

I gave it an absolute stomp on the way home and did it feel quicker hard to say, but its was scary fast either way..hahahha.

Its still stuck on and hasnt blown off which is a start.. Will be going on the dyno next friday when i get some other stuff sorted out.. to see if its changed in terms of power.. So if we have time maybe put on the standard mani as a comparison
...



Otherwise ill be putting back the standard manifold and doing a direct comparo..
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by tino; 03-18-2008 at 04:30 AM.
tino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2008, 08:28 AM   #52
blowbyu24
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 84482
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: PA / Element Tuning
Vehicle:
2005 STI.UR gt4088r
E85 pro comp sti

Default

^^^im excited for the new dyno results....anyway you can get on the dyno earlier???...haha jk
blowbyu24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2008, 08:59 AM   #53
SOOBE
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 78977
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Down Under
Default

the black baloon hose ftw!
SOOBE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2008, 09:14 AM   #54
Lebanese rally champ
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 89192
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lebanon
Vehicle:
2004 USDM STI
Crawford Performance S5

Default

Im sure the 3" silcone joiner will help...
Lebanese rally champ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2008, 09:15 AM   #55
Lebanese rally champ
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 89192
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lebanon
Vehicle:
2004 USDM STI
Crawford Performance S5

Default

cant wait for Friday's results,Good Luck man.
Lebanese rally champ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2008, 11:16 AM   #56
aps2fast4u
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 57871
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Windham,Maine
Vehicle:
2004 WRX
13.4 @ 102

Default

In for new results...Good luck in getting everything sorted out man!
aps2fast4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2008, 01:43 PM   #57
engineerx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 42614
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Bullet-Dodging Fwy Los Angeles
Vehicle:
0405 WRX STi/S2000
AspenWhite/Silverstone

Default

Another well-known tuner here in the the US reported this on a Perrin & stock header thread:
Notice how he says the EL headers "lost" power @ higher rpm's
post#108
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...1110218&page=5

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie View Post
I did one on an FP green STI. Turbo came on 600 to 800 RPM faster and as a result made 40 ft lbs of trq and 25whp under 4000 rpm. From 4500 to 6000 rpm power was exactly the same and from 6000 + it lost 8whp.

Clark
I've also heard the same comment from another very well-known and experienced tuner. The Perrin EL headers work great in turbos smaller than yours. The engine is an air pump. restrict the outlet and you can't take in more air than you can pump out. The turbine is pumping air into the engine once fully spooled (higher rpm's) but the engine can't use all of it because it can't pump it out. In this case, you will still see your boost reach very high PSI's but it doesn't mean the air is making it into the cylinders.

That's my best guess. Alot of good suggestions from others here. Now, there could be other reasons. So you'll have to carefully analyze where the system is choking.

Good thread.. we're all learning !
engineerx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2008, 01:53 PM   #58
Badazzcr
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67693
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Atlanta,GA
Vehicle:
4 Making them
faster then anyone else.

Default

I swapped out the perrin header on a built GT35r car for a DC Sports and picked up 35hp at 7krpms. The perrin header is good for a STG2 car but works horribly on big turbo cars.
Badazzcr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2008, 07:19 PM   #59
tino
Top Scoob 019
 
Member#: 43630
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Down Under
Vehicle:
2004 GT40R-built 2.5
604 whp @1.8 BAR on VP109

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by engineerx View Post
Another well-known tuner here in the the US reported this on a Perrin & stock header thread:
Notice how he says the EL headers "lost" power @ higher rpm's
post#108
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...1110218&page=5



I've also heard the same comment from another very well-known and experienced tuner. The Perrin EL headers work great in turbos smaller than yours. The engine is an air pump. restrict the outlet and you can't take in more air than you can pump out. The turbine is pumping air into the engine once fully spooled (higher rpm's) but the engine can't use all of it because it can't pump it out. In this case, you will still see your boost reach very high PSI's but it doesn't mean the air is making it into the cylinders.

That's my best guess. Alot of good suggestions from others here. Now, there could be other reasons. So you'll have to carefully analyze where the system is choking.

Good thread.. we're all learning !


Thats a fair comment, and I will look into it further i.e full race manifolds or UR.. but if i change the manifold if the restriction is in there then it will move to the upipe as i cant change the diameter of the upipe twin 38mm IDA pipe as it will hit the steering coloumn.

So changing the header will it still be beneficial??
tino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2008, 07:20 PM   #60
tino
Top Scoob 019
 
Member#: 43630
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Down Under
Vehicle:
2004 GT40R-built 2.5
604 whp @1.8 BAR on VP109

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Badazzcr View Post
I swapped out the perrin header on a built GT35r car for a DC Sports and picked up 35hp at 7krpms. The perrin header is good for a STG2 car but works horribly on big turbo cars.

Can u point me to the direction of the DC sports.. Whats the IDA of the piping?? And is it equal length..
tino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2008, 07:31 PM   #61
saintluciascooby
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 109527
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago
Vehicle:
1997 GC8 8.38@165Mph
blue

Default

I am shoe horning a UR GT420R kit into a RHD GC8 right now.
It looks like the UR uppipe will clear the (rack just).
saintluciascooby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2008, 07:34 PM   #62
tino
Top Scoob 019
 
Member#: 43630
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Down Under
Vehicle:
2004 GT40R-built 2.5
604 whp @1.8 BAR on VP109

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by saintluciascooby View Post
Tino are you running a RHD car?
I am shoe horning a UR GT420R kit into a RHD GC8 right now.
It looks like the UR uppipe will clear the (rack just).
yeah it is RHD.. but ive had a custom upipe made up and dumpipe to suit as was told by full race that it wouldnt clear the steering column on a GD... So im not going to be spending anymore money on getting another one of them..

BTW wat is the internal diamter of the upipe, for each runner??
tino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2008, 07:41 PM   #63
saintluciascooby
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 109527
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago
Vehicle:
1997 GC8 8.38@165Mph
blue

Default

48mm , I thought the clearances would be similar maybe it wont work in the end !!!!
I will let you know, I did go to a Tilton pedal box to get rid of the brake and clutch master cylinder to give lots of wiggle room
saintluciascooby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2008, 07:46 PM   #64
tino
Top Scoob 019
 
Member#: 43630
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Down Under
Vehicle:
2004 GT40R-built 2.5
604 whp @1.8 BAR on VP109

Default

yes the brake and clutch cylinders as well as the sterring column resivoir are big issues trying to get the turbo for one and the dumpipe shoe horned in..

If that turns out to be the limiting factor then i might just have to live with it for awhile anyway.. Maybe having just the header may help, so will determine the benefits of that for now..


500 hp atw on pump is more than enough to keep me happy..

Also is the diamter of the dump 3.5" and is the rear housing off the turbo 3.5" also??

Im running 3" from the housing all the way back so wondering if that also could be a restriction..

As for the cams my tuner said that if there were out it would be very obvious.
tino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2008, 07:51 PM   #65
saintluciascooby
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 109527
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago
Vehicle:
1997 GC8 8.38@165Mph
blue

Default

do you have a pic of your up pipe .
the downpipe is 4" from the turbo(4" rear housing) all the way back.
I dont have power steering also
saintluciascooby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2008, 07:54 PM   #66
tino
Top Scoob 019
 
Member#: 43630
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Down Under
Vehicle:
2004 GT40R-built 2.5
604 whp @1.8 BAR on VP109

Default

damn u race car drivers.

nah dont have a pic of the upipe as we were in arush to get it all together by the new yr. Even though it turned out that, that didnt even come close to evenuating..

So you should be fine then..


AS for the 3" dump i also have a 2" wastegate tube venting out into the atmo.. so this would then make the exhaust gases flowing out of a 5" diameter??
tino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2008, 08:02 PM   #67
saintluciascooby
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 109527
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago
Vehicle:
1997 GC8 8.38@165Mph
blue

Default

hook up a pressure gauge to your header pipe and see if there is a lot of back pressure, quickest way to see if you have a uppipe exhaust problem?

Last edited by saintluciascooby; 03-18-2008 at 08:11 PM.
saintluciascooby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2008, 08:41 PM   #68
shvrdavid
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 86078
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Central Pa.
Vehicle:
2005 Sti
4094R Twin Scroll

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tino View Post
Yeh thats a nice size but because of restrictions with RHD i could only maximally go 38mm IDA for the twin scroll upipe. So i figured that there was no point going bigger in the headers as it would get shoved back to the smaller diameter...
Hmm, I forgot it was right hand drive....
That would make for a lot more stuff to get around that is on the left side of my car...

I wish I new where a right hand drive car was around here that I could look at...
There has to be a way around it...

I am curious to see the difference the silicone coupler makes on your next dyno pulls...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tino
As for the cams my tuner said that if there were out it would be very obvious....
I am also curious how your tuner would know if a cam was off a few degrees without actually degreeing the engine with a degree wheel...

Nothing against your tuner, I would just like to know his trick in seeing an obvious 5 or 10 degree error in cam timing...
shvrdavid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2008, 10:37 PM   #69
tino
Top Scoob 019
 
Member#: 43630
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Down Under
Vehicle:
2004 GT40R-built 2.5
604 whp @1.8 BAR on VP109

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shvrdavid View Post
Hmm, I forgot it was right hand drive....
That would make for a lot more stuff to get around that is on the left side of my car...

I wish I new where a right hand drive car was around here that I could look at...
There has to be a way around it...

I am curious to see the difference the silicone coupler makes on your next dyno pulls...


I am also curious how your tuner would know if a cam was off a few degrees without actually degreeing the engine with a degree wheel...

Nothing against your tuner, I would just like to know his trick in seeing an obvious 5 or 10 degree error in cam timing...


yes its hard with RHD...

As for degree cam timing, He told me that it wasnt out. As he built the engine so at this stage ill take his word for it..
tino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 10:18 AM   #70
rxw
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 43669
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: International
Vehicle:
2006 STi
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tino View Post
damn u race car drivers.
AS for the 3" dump i also have a 2" wastegate tube venting out into the atmo.. so this would then make the exhaust gases flowing out of a 5" diameter??
Actually not to be anal but a 3' dump plus a separate 2' dump only equals a 3.6' total dump area because it works on surface area...

3’ dump = 1.5 (radius) squared times pi
2’ dump = 1 (radius) squared times pi

3’ area + 2’ area = 10.210 square inches

Divide that by pi then square root it you should get 1.80277564 (radius)

Now double that and you have you total diameter of exhaust dump-age
rxw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 02:23 PM   #71
Homemade WRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: 3MI Racing LLC
Vehicle:
96 bastard child
search FIRST, then PM!!!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rxw View Post
Actually not to be anal but a 3' dump plus a separate 2' dump only equals a 3.6' total dump area because it works on surface area...

3’ dump = 1.5 (radius) squared times pi
2’ dump = 1 (radius) squared times pi

3’ area + 2’ area = 10.210 square inches

Divide that by pi then square root it you should get 1.80277564 (radius)

Now double that and you have you total diameter for your exhaust dump-age AREA

flow is going to be a bit different and your method would have less flow loss
Homemade WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 07:02 PM   #72
tino
Top Scoob 019
 
Member#: 43630
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Down Under
Vehicle:
2004 GT40R-built 2.5
604 whp @1.8 BAR on VP109

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post

flow is going to be a bit different and your method would have less flow loss
hahah...

Now would this larger flow prevent any backflow restrictions from staying with a 3" dump instead of going to a 3.5" dump??
tino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 10:05 PM   #73
Homemade WRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: 3MI Racing LLC
Vehicle:
96 bastard child
search FIRST, then PM!!!

Default

not sure I understand the question...if you are asking whether to go to 3.5", then yes, do it...if you are asking to go to 3.5" and run the wastegate back into the exhaust, I wouldn't.
With gains I've seen on the dyno between returned and atmospheric dump EWG's I will never run an internal unless its for a street car. Even then, I personally won't.
Homemade WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2008, 11:16 PM   #74
tino
Top Scoob 019
 
Member#: 43630
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Down Under
Vehicle:
2004 GT40R-built 2.5
604 whp @1.8 BAR on VP109

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
not sure I understand the question...if you are asking whether to go to 3.5", then yes, do it...if you are asking to go to 3.5" and run the wastegate back into the exhaust, I wouldn't.
With gains I've seen on the dyno between returned and atmospheric dump EWG's I will never run an internal unless its for a street car. Even then, I personally won't.
Micah never going to run the ewg back to the exhaust.. was wondering if goin to 3.5" will be beneficial over the 3"..

Which to ur answer is a resounding yes..
tino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2008, 12:41 PM   #75
sponaugle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4498
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle:
WRX H6-3.0 Turbo
www.surgelinetuning.com

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tino View Post
Yeh it was dynoed in 5th gear as for stis that is the closest 1:1 ratio... for wrxs with 5 speeds dynos should be done in 4th gear to get 1:1 ratio
Quote:
Originally Posted by modaddict View Post
I wish more people would realize this.

Somehow in the last couple years, it's switched to 4th gear in the sti and 3rd in the wrx
Your comments inspired another post btw:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...7#post21626737

Jeff
sponaugle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WORKS TUNING AT EDO 8/23 and 8/24 Edo Performance SCIC Vendor Classifieds 0 08-15-2008 02:52 PM
STi clutch slipping at 26 psi of boost DJIMPREZA Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline 8 03-04-2008 10:04 PM
18g boost creep at 8 psi AlboWRX Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 26 01-06-2007 05:19 AM
Only 8 PSI boost Uncle Scotty Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 17 02-28-2003 09:09 PM
only 8 psi boost stock? solomrus Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 8 09-16-2001 02:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.