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Old 02-27-2008, 12:50 PM   #101
fujiillin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene2.5RS View Post
Also forgot to mention I tune with Enginuity (RomRaider) and disabled all the codes (15 of them) and never had a problem.

-Rene
Same here.

I started it on an old map just to see what happens.. no cel, but it barely ran.

Flashed to a new RR map with all deleted codes and now it runs like a champ.

Fwiw, I got the hardline out by way of removing the intake manifold.
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:54 PM   #102
WRFX
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If at all possible, can we start a list on all the codes that need deleting?
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:01 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by x99percent View Post
On DBW cars, you lose cruise control when you have a CEL. That's all he was saying.

Fix the CEL, and cruise control works again.
Ah, gotcha. I was misunderstanding it to be a permanent thing!
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:48 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRFX View Post
If at all possible, can we start a list on all the codes that need deleting?
06/07 WRX:
  • P0410
  • P0411
  • P0413
  • P0414
  • P0416
  • P0417
  • P0418
  • P2431
  • P2432
  • P2433
  • P2440
  • P2441
  • P2442
  • P2443
  • P2444

07 STI
  • P0410
  • P0411
  • P0413
  • P0414
  • P0418
  • P2431
  • P2432
  • P2433
  • P2441
  • P2444

-Rene

Last edited by Rene2.5RS; 02-27-2008 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:58 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fujiillin View Post
Same here.

I started it on an old map just to see what happens.. no cel, but it barely ran.

Flashed to a new RR map with all deleted codes and now it runs like a champ.

Fwiw, I got the hardline out by way of removing the intake manifold.
Hmm. I had no problem with my car running when I started for the first time. I did have a CEL but using ecuExplorer I was not showing any current or past CELs. Disabled all of the above CELs and then the dash light turned off.

-Rene
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:31 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene2.5RS View Post
06/07 WRX:
  • P0410
  • P0411
  • P0413
  • P0414
  • P0416
  • P0417
  • P0418
  • P2431
  • P2432
  • P2433
  • P2440
  • P2441
  • P2442
  • P2443
  • P2444

07 STI
  • P0410
  • P0411
  • P0413
  • P0414
  • P0418
  • P2431
  • P2432
  • P2433
  • P2441
  • P2444

-Rene
By chance are all these CEL codes related to the removal of the air pump? If not related what are the other codes for.
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:46 AM   #107
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They are all related to either the air pump or the valves the pump sends air to. The 06/07 WRX have more because they have 2 valves and the 07 STI only has one valve.

-Rene
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Old 02-28-2008, 11:02 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene2.5RS View Post
Hmm. I had no problem with my car running when I started for the first time. I did have a CEL but using ecuExplorer I was not showing any current or past CELs. Disabled all of the above CELs and then the dash light turned off.

-Rene
ecuexplorer doesn't have definitions for these codes, which is why they don't show up.

If you look at the known trouble codes p04xx has a gap between p0400 and p0420, and p2xxx has a gap between p2138-p2707. If you delete a new code the next code in line always seems to pop up. So as you said, and I said before, best to delete anything that has (secondary air pump) next to it.

also for anyone worried about inspection, as long as there's no active cel for the system it will show ready.
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Old 02-28-2008, 05:59 PM   #109
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I heard yesterday that you can't tune a car with the Cobb AP if the airpump is removed due to the ECU being unable to communicate with all of the sensor grounds. Does anyone know a work around for this? I'm using an OTS stage 2 map that works fine, but want/need a protune soon.

EDIT:
A local tuner responded to my e-mail within 10 mins! Mike @ Innovative is great with customer service. Here is what he said:

Quote:
I'm glad you e-mailed me. I had forgot all about this. A while after
you had me make that base file it came out that cars run totally out of
whack when the pump is removed because the engine grounds are removed
and the ECU flips out. Tuned or not the car will run extremely
erratically if this is done.

You can take all the ground wires running through that system and
simply ground them properly.

Last edited by Mechie3; 02-28-2008 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:51 PM   #110
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Thanks for the info, I have the cobb ap also with a protune..

So is he just saying to ground the ground wires
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Old 02-29-2008, 07:40 AM   #111
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Pretty much. The car will run and can be tuned I guess, but the ECU might run erratically. I say might, because although he says it will, my car seems to have been fine. Just to be on the safe side, I plan to cut all of the grounds off the harness, solder them together, and attached a ring terminal so I can bolt it onto another ground point.
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Old 03-05-2008, 08:31 PM   #112
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Im bumping this because ive got a problem with the pump. I got a couple of codes p2443 etc. I tried deleting it but it came right back. Should i just delete every code that is associated with it? The list above
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:32 PM   #113
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i dont have the p2443 anymore. I just checked and its the p0410
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:58 PM   #114
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Yes switch off all the codes on that list for the wrx. All these codes deal with the secondary air injection system.
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Old 03-05-2008, 10:00 PM   #115
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also you can look up most of these codes here

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ighlight=P0410
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Old 03-14-2008, 09:58 AM   #116
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Got my hands on the 06 WRX wiring diagram and it says that there is an integrated pressure sensor on one of the valves. Not sure off hand which one (look it up later) but my car has run fine without it for almost a year. I'm also trying to trace all of the grounds so I can cut them off the harness and reground them.
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Old 03-14-2008, 03:18 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechie3 View Post
Got my hands on the 06 WRX wiring diagram and it says that there is an integrated pressure sensor on one of the valves. Not sure off hand which one (look it up later) but my car has run fine without it for almost a year. I'm also trying to trace all of the grounds so I can cut them off the harness and reground them.
Please update us whenever you find it.
I too, would like to remove the pump.
I hate removing it whenever working on the car and it's a huge piece of junk.
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Old 03-20-2008, 07:51 PM   #118
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Looking at the diagram, it doesn't appear than any grounds are really missing. I'll post up some pics later, but here's a quick rundown from page WI-47 (47 of the wiring diagram). If you want, go to a dealer and ask them for that page.

Airpump: 2 connections, 1 goes to ground, the other side goes to a relay, a fuse, and then the power supply circuit

Valve 1: 2 connections, 1 goes to a relay, fuse, and the power supply, the other side goes to GE1 (engine ground1)

Valve 2 w secondary pressure sensor: 5 connections, first two are the same as above, switched power and GE1 (to turn the valve on and off). The next 3 connections go to the ECU eventually and are B134:27 (Signal to secondary air pressure sensor should read between 1.1 and 1.6 volts at idle), B134:29, (Sensor ground, reads 0 at all times), B134:19 (Power supply, reads 5 volts at all times).

The ground (connection B134:29 on the ECU) connects to the throttle, engine coolant sensor, pressure sensor (main), and both TGV angle sensors. HOWEVER, they are attached in parallel, so removing the pump does NOT interrupt the ground to these sensors.

The sensor power (B134:19) does the exact same thing as ground as far as connections, but provides a constant 5 volt source to power the sensors. Again, since they are in parallel, I do not see why removing the second valve would affect anything else.

Lastly is the secondary air pressure sensor signal (B134:27). This is the only item connected to the ECU that is interrupted when removing the valves. I need to play around with my valve a little bit, but my guess is that there are 2 options here:

1: Disconnecting this results in a CEL that we turn off.
2: We can bridge this wire to another with a resistor to fake the signal.

There's the problem. I don't know the function of the air pressure sensor, so I'm not sure what it should be bridged with.

Has anyone here been protuned without the airpump and without messing with the harnesses?

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see this interrupting anything except a secondary pressure sensor which, by the term secondary, is more than likely a backup. My guess is that people saw 1 part of the wiring (probably the schematic, which is confusing as all getout) and figured all of the sensor grounds were suddenly interrupted. The wiring diagram (which is a bit more common sense than the schematic to read) seems to show that that isn't true.
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Old 04-17-2008, 11:07 PM   #119
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bringing this thread back, anyone done this on their 07 legacy gt? I have a 07 gt and I have an fmic that I will be installing soon, but it looks like the air pump is in the way and I want to know if It can be removed. I am going to take it off and plug up the lines to it for a temp solution untill I get block off plates and it cab be tuned out to clear the many codes that will be flagged. Also does the 07 legacy gt have 1 or 2 valves? Just the driver side? Thanks.
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Old 04-18-2008, 05:51 PM   #120
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I have had the air pump off of my 06 FXT for a while and several tunes with a Cobb AP. No problems at all. In fact, I was running 11s with my old setup (went bigger, still breaking in).
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Old 04-18-2008, 10:30 PM   #121
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i always wondered what that thing was.
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Old 04-19-2008, 01:19 AM   #122
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Even if I get the pump taken out of the tune and the cel is off, during emissions testings wont it just trigger it saying that the emissions system is not ready or available to be tested or somthing? Damn ny emissions bullchit
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Old 04-25-2008, 01:27 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechie3 View Post
Looking at the diagram, it doesn't appear than any grounds are really missing. I'll post up some pics later, but here's a quick rundown from page WI-47 (47 of the wiring diagram). If you want, go to a dealer and ask them for that page.

Airpump: 2 connections, 1 goes to ground, the other side goes to a relay, a fuse, and then the power supply circuit

Valve 1: 2 connections, 1 goes to a relay, fuse, and the power supply, the other side goes to GE1 (engine ground1)

Valve 2 w secondary pressure sensor: 5 connections, first two are the same as above, switched power and GE1 (to turn the valve on and off). The next 3 connections go to the ECU eventually and are B134:27 (Signal to secondary air pressure sensor should read between 1.1 and 1.6 volts at idle), B134:29, (Sensor ground, reads 0 at all times), B134:19 (Power supply, reads 5 volts at all times).

The ground (connection B134:29 on the ECU) connects to the throttle, engine coolant sensor, pressure sensor (main), and both TGV angle sensors. HOWEVER, they are attached in parallel, so removing the pump does NOT interrupt the ground to these sensors.

The sensor power (B134:19) does the exact same thing as ground as far as connections, but provides a constant 5 volt source to power the sensors. Again, since they are in parallel, I do not see why removing the second valve would affect anything else.

Lastly is the secondary air pressure sensor signal (B134:27). This is the only item connected to the ECU that is interrupted when removing the valves. I need to play around with my valve a little bit, but my guess is that there are 2 options here:

1: Disconnecting this results in a CEL that we turn off.
2: We can bridge this wire to another with a resistor to fake the signal.

There's the problem. I don't know the function of the air pressure sensor, so I'm not sure what it should be bridged with.

Has anyone here been protuned without the airpump and without messing with the harnesses?

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see this interrupting anything except a secondary pressure sensor which, by the term secondary, is more than likely a backup. My guess is that people saw 1 part of the wiring (probably the schematic, which is confusing as all getout) and figured all of the sensor grounds were suddenly interrupted. The wiring diagram (which is a bit more common sense than the schematic to read) seems to show that that isn't true.
Any ideas with the resistor?
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Old 04-25-2008, 05:18 AM   #124
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we need a guide for removal...who's got this down to a science?
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Old 04-25-2008, 02:47 PM   #125
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Any ideas with the resistor?
Nah, I decided not to pursue it. I have an equation written down somewhere if you really wanted me to find it. I think the whole thing really just came down to a miscommunication and identifying the AIR PUMP vs the AIR PUMP HARNESS. The harness (in it's entirety, sp?) includes the relays and fuses in teh dogleg of the fuse box. If you remove these, you are interrupting the grounds for the fuel injectors and other items. The main case for this happening would be if you swapped a pre 06 car with an 06+ engine where the fuse box doesn't contain this dogleg section, so you must manually create these grounds. I'm getting protuned tomorrow too, so I'll post results/comments later.
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