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Old 08-15-2008, 01:14 PM   #1
BigElm
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Default 2008 STi Recall - Reflash

Quote:
To: All Subaru Dealers
From: Subaru of America, Inc.
Date: August 13, 2008
Re: WVE-15 ECM Reprogramming Service Program
2008 Impreza WRX STI
SOA has initiated a Service Program (WVE-15) to reprogram the Engine Control Module (ECM)
on certain 2008MY Impreza WRX STI vehicles.
Under certain harsh driving patterns, specifically when repeatedly or continuously operating the
engine above the “red-line” (RPM above 6,700), abnormal combustion could occur resulting in
serious internal engine damage in the form of broken piston ring lands. This abnormal
combustion condition is the result of an “over lean” fuel mixture caused by a combination of fuel
cut activation and high turbo boost. To prevent this condition from occurring, Subaru has
developed a modification to the Engine Control Module software logic that will improve
combustion management above “red-line” engine speed. This revised logic will not adversely
affect peak vehicle performance.
General information concerning this Service Program:
• The WVE-15 Service Program Bulletin will be posted on the Techinfo.Subaru.com
website on Thursday, August 14th. The Campaign Bulletin contains additional information
concerning identification of affected vehicles, repair and claim submission procedures.
• On or around August 14, 2008, dealers will be sent affected VIN lists by their Area
Service Office. Dealers are requested to immediately perform this campaign on all
affected vehicles in dealer inventory. Important: Some vehicles that appear on dealer
affected VIN lists may have already been updated by Subaru. Prior to performing
repairs, confirm coverage by using the Vehicle Coverage Inquiry in the Dealer
Communication System (DCS). Vehicles that have been updated by Subaru will
appear "completed" in DCS.
• CDS control numbers for this Service Program are currently available through DCS.
• Subaru will mail owner notification letters on or around August 15, 2008.
Reprogramming software:
The July 2008 SSMIII Software update was released by SOA on August 12, 2008 and contains
the reprogramming pack file needed to complete this Service Program.
Upgrade Version Numbers
• Software: 1.15.33.3
• Interface Box: 1.6.0
• Interface Box CF Card: 1.2.35
Pack File
22611AN351.pak. - 2008MY Impreza STI, ECM To prevent the abnormal combustion during fuel
cut and recovery condition by rev. limiter
Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.
Subaru of America, Inc
Source: Subaru Dealer (Trust me )
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Old 08-15-2008, 01:18 PM   #2
Clark_Kent
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Thanks for the info. The terrible stock ECM tune still isn't sorted? Wow.
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Old 08-15-2008, 01:26 PM   #3
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Quote:
Under certain harsh driving patterns, specifically when repeatedly or continuously operating the engine above the “red-line” (RPM above 6,700)
you can run the car (stock) over red line? is there no rev limiter on the STi? or are they talking about if you were in a higher gear and dropped it to a lower gear to quickly and the car revs past the limiter (since the limiter can't stop the car at that point)...
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Old 08-15-2008, 01:56 PM   #4
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There is Redline and then there is the fuel cut-off... can be two different values. Over redline will approach the fuel-cutoff and that is where some of the logic was rewritten as per the recall notes.

Obviously from a misshift you cannot prevent an "overrev"
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Old 08-15-2008, 03:11 PM   #5
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"This revised logic will not adversely affect peak vehicle performance."
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Old 08-15-2008, 03:57 PM   #6
law
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariano View Post
"This revised logic will not adversely affect peak vehicle performance."
Is that hard to believe? Power in the upper revs is not that much anyway and is tailing off.

If the work was to revise the fuel cut-off logic at the limiter, I don't see how this could really affect the peak performance since the peak range is nowhere near that limit
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Old 08-15-2008, 04:12 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by law View Post
I don't see how this could really affect the peak performance since the peak range is nowhere near that limit
Agreed. Maybe a power/torque vs rpm graph would make it more clear.
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Old 08-15-2008, 05:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard L. View Post
Agreed. Maybe a power/torque vs rpm graph would make it more clear.
Indeed. With the stock turbo on the STI, you're better off shifting at about 6000 to 6500 rpms. Running the car to the rev limiter in every gear is actually slower.

In some cases, like autocross, it actually makes sense to spend some time at really high rpms- even banging off the rev limiter. If there's a section of a course where you will be on the rev limiter for 2 or 3 seconds, it's a lot faster to just do that than upshift and immediately downshift again.

Now, multiply "a couple seconds" on the rev limiter times a few times per run times a bunch of runs and it's easy to see how a few det events could weaken the ringlands and eventually kill them completely.
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Old 08-15-2008, 08:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remowgn View Post
Indeed. With the stock turbo on the STI, you're better off shifting at about 6000 to 6500 rpms. Running the car to the rev limiter in every gear is actually slower.
With respect to acceleration and shift points, that depends on the gearing. With the short geared 6spd ('04-'06), it made sense to redline 1st & 2nd, 6500 in 3rd, and ride 4th to 6700. With the longer geared 6spd, I'm sure this has changed quite a bit. I'd still say that redlining 1st and 2nd makes sense because you probably still put down more torque at 6500-6700 rpm in 2nd, due to gear multiplier, than 4xxx/5xxxpm in 3rd if you shift earlier at 6K.

Now, in regards to this reflash, a couple people on IWSTI have already gone to their respective dealerships and had this done. One problem that has been noted is that the AccessPort will no longer recognize the ECU after it has been reflashed (obviously they unmarried it first; i.e. it can't be reinstalled after Subaru's ECM update). Apparently, Cobb is getting their car flashed soon and will provide a fix.
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Old 08-15-2008, 08:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitalfiend View Post
Now, in regards to this reflash, a couple people on IWSTI have already gone to their respective dealerships and had this done. One problem that has been noted is that the AccessPort will no longer recognize the ECU after it has been reflashed (obviously they unmarried it first; i.e. it can't be reinstalled after Subaru's ECM update). Apparently, Cobb is getting their car flashed soon and will provide a fix.
That makes no sense. Why get an AP and have stage 1, flash to the new subaru base map then try to go back to a stage 1 again? Why not just stick to stage 1 since you spent $700 for an AP?
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Old 08-15-2008, 09:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EtoS View Post
That makes no sense. Why get an AP and have stage 1, flash to the new subaru base map then try to go back to a stage 1 again? Why not just stick to stage 1 since you spent $700 for an AP?
Yeah, I don't get it either.
If you're stage 1 or 2 why bother whith the stock tune
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Old 08-15-2008, 09:50 PM   #12
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Well I am almost thinking that there may be an issue even with the Cobb maps since they are built on the base stock map. It may be safe to say that they will work the new fuel-cut logic into their current map set.

It could explain why we saw failures on Tuned as well as Stock cars.

Just a thought. I hope they dyno the new flash though...
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Old 08-15-2008, 10:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitalfiend View Post
With respect to acceleration and shift points, that depends on the gearing. With the short geared 6spd ('04-'06), it made sense to redline 1st & 2nd, 6500 in 3rd, and ride 4th to 6700. With the longer geared 6spd, I'm sure this has changed quite a bit. I'd still say that redlining 1st and 2nd makes sense because you probably still put down more torque at 6500-6700 rpm in 2nd, due to gear multiplier, than 4xxx/5xxxpm in 3rd if you shift earlier at 6K.
Deciding to shift has almost nothing to do with power... it has to do with time lost from upshifting and downshifting. While the situation is better in the 07+ cars, there are still plenty of sections that put you "in between" gears.
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Old 08-16-2008, 12:54 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EtoS View Post
That makes no sense. Why get an AP and have stage 1, flash to the new subaru base map then try to go back to a stage 1 again? Why not just stick to stage 1 since you spent $700 for an AP?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rallymaniac View Post
Yeah, I don't get it either.
If you're stage 1 or 2 why bother whith the stock tune
That was my thinking as well initially. The problem could be that the reflash doesn't specifically mention the tune. The Subaru reflash apparently addresses how the ECM deals with the rev limiter. My understanding of the Cobb maps is that there are somethings they don't change in the ECM logic and this could be one of them. So the idea is that you get this reflash to obtain the new logic and then get the new compatible maps from Cobb.

Maybe Cobb has full control over the ECU's logic. It's been awhile since I've followed the ECU tuning, especially on the newer ECUs.

Last edited by Digitalfiend; 08-16-2008 at 01:00 AM.
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Old 08-16-2008, 01:00 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remowgn View Post
Deciding to shift has almost nothing to do with power... it has to do with time lost from upshifting and downshifting. While the situation is better in the 07+ cars, there are still plenty of sections that put you "in between" gears.
I wasn't talking about the 2nd part of your post. I know that avoiding an upshift can save you time. Even if you can shift in .5 of second that adds up with each corner of each lap. When I tracked my '05 I learned, from other more experienced STI trackers, that you could stay in 3rd for some corners instead of downshifting to 2nd. The shorter geared 6spd had a short enough 3rd that you could still pull hard out of the corners and avoid the upshift.

My point regarding the first part of your post is still valid though..
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Old 08-16-2008, 10:55 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariano View Post
"This revised logic will not adversely affect peak vehicle performance."
Im going to find out. I have two dyno appointments next week. One before and one after the reflash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rallymaniac View Post
Yeah, I don't get it either.
If you're stage 1 or 2 why bother whith the stock tune
The only problem I can see with that is future warranty work. If you dont do it the VIN will always have the open "recall" when a dealer does a VIN inquiry. They may wonder why you havnt done the reflash.
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Old 08-16-2008, 09:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EtoS View Post
That makes no sense. Why get an AP and have stage 1, flash to the new subaru base map then try to go back to a stage 1 again? Why not just stick to stage 1 since you spent $700 for an AP?
I was the first one to get this done and to report about it and the reason for me getting it done even tho having stage 1 already on my ECU is the fact that its on record with Subaru that i got the flash for warranty purposes number 1 and number 2 like Digital said there could be subtle changes in the map that the Cobb map doesnt change in the ECU. I always like to have the latest "firmware" on any of my equipment and that includes my car. If i would have known that this was going to happen and not be able to flash back then i would have waited till Cobb had a fix. So you're welcome for me taking one for the team
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Old 08-17-2008, 08:58 AM   #18
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Default claim denied

08 STI 9000 miles
This car just developed engine failure, cylinder four misfire, approx 40lbs compression. Had it at the dealer and the warranty was denied for we have the cobb upgrade which they detected and the harmon exhaust. Once this car is repaired, I hope cobb comes up with the new map since as long as this car has the turbo back exhaust on it, you need to run the cobb map for the 02 sensor in order for the ecu to work properly. The engine has not been torn down yet, took it from the dealer and brought it to my mechanic. The engine is burning approx 1 quart of oil a week and is running extremely rough. ( missing cylinder 4 ) There is no odd noises coming from the engine whatsoever, I hope this isnt a mint to repair! I guess first step here is to pull the head! This car was run at HIGH rpms. The dealer will not look at anything on this car now warranty related.
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Old 08-17-2008, 09:48 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsparky View Post
08 STI 9000 miles
This car just developed engine failure, cylinder four misfire, approx 40lbs compression. Had it at the dealer and the warranty was denied for we have the cobb upgrade which they detected and the harmon exhaust. Once this car is repaired, I hope cobb comes up with the new map since as long as this car has the turbo back exhaust on it, you need to run the cobb map for the 02 sensor in order for the ecu to work properly. The engine has not been torn down yet, took it from the dealer and brought it to my mechanic. The engine is burning approx 1 quart of oil a week and is running extremely rough. ( missing cylinder 4 ) There is no odd noises coming from the engine whatsoever, I hope this isnt a mint to repair! I guess first step here is to pull the head! This car was run at HIGH rpms. The dealer will not look at anything on this car now warranty related.
Should not be a surprise, as any time you modify the powertrain (or anything) you risk voiding the warranty.

Bob
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Old 08-17-2008, 10:12 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butcherboy78 View Post
I was the first one to get this done and to report about it and the reason for me getting it done even tho having stage 1 already on my ECU is the fact that its on record with Subaru that i got the flash for warranty purposes number 1 and number 2 like Digital said there could be subtle changes in the map that the Cobb map doesnt change in the ECU. I always like to have the latest "firmware" on any of my equipment and that includes my car. If i would have known that this was going to happen and not be able to flash back then i would have waited till Cobb had a fix. So you're welcome for me taking one for the team
I wasn't bashing anyone- just genuinely confused why. It makes sense now- how is the new map anyway? Don't just take one for the team and not leave any feedback
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Old 08-17-2008, 12:13 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EtoS View Post
I wasn't bashing anyone- just genuinely confused why. It makes sense now- how is the new map anyway? Don't just take one for the team and not leave any feedback
Well if you've been reading up on this subject there has been a very long and detailed thread going on at IWSTI. Here is my initial post when i got it done:
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2008-sti...amming-10.html
and the new map is pretty much the same... it feels a little more linear, but that could just be the feeling of driving with the stage 1 map for a bit. It'll be interesting to see some dyno comparisons of original to this one.

Last edited by Butcherboy78; 08-17-2008 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 08-17-2008, 01:12 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsparky View Post
08 STI 9000 miles
This car just developed engine failure, cylinder four misfire, approx 40lbs compression. Had it at the dealer and the warranty was denied for we have the cobb upgrade which they detected and the harmon exhaust. Once this car is repaired, I hope cobb comes up with the new map since as long as this car has the turbo back exhaust on it, you need to run the cobb map for the 02 sensor in order for the ecu to work properly. The engine has not been torn down yet, took it from the dealer and brought it to my mechanic. The engine is burning approx 1 quart of oil a week and is running extremely rough. ( missing cylinder 4 ) There is no odd noises coming from the engine whatsoever, I hope this isnt a mint to repair! I guess first step here is to pull the head! This car was run at HIGH rpms. The dealer will not look at anything on this car now warranty related.
Take it to a different dealer...It sounds like this one wasn't interested in even trying to help.
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Old 08-17-2008, 04:38 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsparky View Post
08 STI 9000 miles
This car just developed engine failure, cylinder four misfire, approx 40lbs compression. Had it at the dealer and the warranty was denied for we have the cobb upgrade which they detected and the harmon exhaust. Once this car is repaired, I hope cobb comes up with the new map since as long as this car has the turbo back exhaust on it, you need to run the cobb map for the 02 sensor in order for the ecu to work properly. The engine has not been torn down yet, took it from the dealer and brought it to my mechanic. The engine is burning approx 1 quart of oil a week and is running extremely rough. ( missing cylinder 4 ) There is no odd noises coming from the engine whatsoever, I hope this isnt a mint to repair! I guess first step here is to pull the head! This car was run at HIGH rpms. The dealer will not look at anything on this car now warranty related.
U do realize that u can force the issue on this. Get the regional SOA rep involved. ) Like another postered stated u might want to go to another dealer that is more helpful
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Old 08-17-2008, 08:20 PM   #24
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The regional tech rep is the one that shot down the repairs
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Old 08-17-2008, 10:10 PM   #25
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It says "certain 2008MY Impreza WRX STI vehicles." Anyone know which VIN numbers?

Thanks - Paul
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