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Old 10-30-2008, 02:46 PM   #151
Innovative Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechie3 View Post
Lastly is the secondary air pressure sensor signal (B134:27). This is the only item connected to the ECU that is interrupted when removing the valves. I need to play around with my valve a little bit, but my guess is that there are 2 options here:

1: Disconnecting this results in a CEL that we turn off.
2: We can bridge this wire to another with a resistor to fake the signal.

There's the problem. I don't know the function of the air pressure sensor, so I'm not sure what it should be bridged with.

Has anyone here been protuned without the airpump and without messing with the harnesses?

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see this interrupting anything except a secondary pressure sensor which, by the term secondary, is more than likely a backup. My guess is that people saw 1 part of the wiring (probably the schematic, which is confusing as all getout) and figured all of the sensor grounds were suddenly interrupted. The wiring diagram (which is a bit more common sense than the schematic to read) seems to show that that isn't true.
I just found this thread. Thanks for the kind words.
I didn't have much info when I sent you that e-mail other than seeing an ECU freak out with my own eyes simply due to the air pump being removed on another customer's car. It was adding a timing floor, making the minimum timing higher than what's prudent to run in the lower RPMs at high load.

That secondary sensor is the barometric pressure sensor, not a backup MAP sensor. That ground seems to be the one causing issues which make the ECU prescribe dangerous ignition timing. With that ground hooked up the car goes right back to normal. Before it was hooked back up I kept trying to remove timing from the ECU cal in various way and none of them did anything at all. Again, with that plug hooked back up, I could make adjustments and get the desired affect with no funny business.

I have a feeling the people not having issues are not unplugging that portion of the system:


You can isolate the ground wire and run it yourself if you don't want to keep that unit shown for clearance, like when you're putting a GT35R kit and a front mount IC on an 07 STi...
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Old 10-30-2008, 03:17 PM   #152
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which color is the ground wire?
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Old 10-30-2008, 04:26 PM   #153
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Manufacturer's don't always use the same color wires so I don't like to go by wire color. I'm also not sure if the pin position is the same for all the years and models. We just use Alldata to check over the wiring in the factory service manual specific to the car we're working on and then test it to confirm before changing anything.

Last edited by Innovative Tuning; 10-30-2008 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 10-31-2008, 03:54 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene2.5RS View Post

The hard line running to the passenger side is the hardest to remove and does require the removal of the up pipe to get to where it attaches to the passenger side heads. Once the up pipe is out you do need to separate the inlet from the turbo so you can lift the hard line straight up and out. Requires some twisting and maneuvering if you can get someone to help it will make it a little easier.

-Rene
Agreed. I actually did not removed anything except the valves, and I just cut the passenger side hard line off with a dremel. It probably too longer than removing the uppipe and downpipe, but you know how it goes
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Old 11-03-2008, 08:36 PM   #155
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I now have the P02443 BS as well.. I just want to run without a CEL - Is it worth the hassle to remove everything, or just delete the bloody CEL codes?

I would have to get my AP protuner to do this for me, but 50 bucks is better than the $900 or so - right now the dealer thinks my ECU needs to be replaced. They have already changed out the relay, and i am still getting the damn code. They are not getting a signal from the ECU to open the valve when they force the value in the ECU.
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Old 11-04-2008, 09:53 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovative Tuning View Post
I have a feeling the people not having issues are not unplugging that portion of the system.

You can isolate the ground wire and run it yourself if you don't want to keep that unit shown for clearance, like when you're putting a GT35R kit and a front mount IC on an 07 STi...
Maybe my car is a freak I unplugged everything and don't seem to have a problem at all. I'll see if I can't pull up the wiring diagrams and find out what color the ground is for the 06 WRX. The hard part will be finding the wire as I did a wire tuck and hid all of these.
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Old 11-04-2008, 01:52 PM   #157
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If you guys are using the AP, just have your Protuner delete the codes. I have 2 codes, and they were both able to be deleted. NO side effects that I have seen in nearly 6 months.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:21 PM   #158
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I turned off my codes using opensource. Ive been going without the pump, valves, or lines for around 6 months, no problems at all.
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Old 11-05-2008, 01:30 AM   #159
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In post # 22 on the first page of this thread bluetwo wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluetwo View Post
I've been wondering if anyone would come up with a creative way to use the pump. Obviously there isn't much of a performance benefit to removing 2 or 3 lbs.
Then in post #23 JiveMasterT replied with this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JiveMasterT View Post
What about if you hooked up a turkey call to it and ran a switch to the power inside your cabin. That way you can turn it on and you have instant turkey call sound.

I guess I am the only one who saw this but I laughed so hard I spit my gum out on my keyboard when I read it -

That is a perfect idea for this pump Jive.....perfect.
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Old 11-06-2008, 03:30 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene2.5RS View Post
The hard line running to the passenger side is the hardest to remove and does require the removal of the up pipe to get to where it attaches to the passenger side heads. Once the up pipe is out you do need to separate the inlet from the turbo so you can lift the hard line straight up and out. Requires some twisting and maneuvering if you can get someone to help it will make it a little easier.

-Rene
A painful, although easier method is to cut the hard line using a straight hacksaw blade. (just be careful you don't cut or knock off the turbo oil drain line). I used a 18tpi blade and it took about 5-10 minutes to get through it.
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Old 11-06-2008, 03:41 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geeoff View Post
I turned off my codes using opensource. Ive been going without the pump, valves, or lines for around 6 months, no problems at all.
I used open source to disable the CELs and after a year, no issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonsp6 View Post
A painful, although easier method is to cut the hard line using a straight hacksaw blade. (just be careful you don't cut or knock off the turbo oil drain line). I used a 18tpi blade and it took about 5-10 minutes to get through it.
Yeah there is always going to be different ways to go about it. When I had the up pipe off to unbolt the hard line on the passenger side and install the block off plate to separate the inlet from the turbo and lift the line out was no biggie at that point.

-Rene
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Old 11-19-2008, 12:58 PM   #162
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Did this delete last night.

I didn't find the valve from the passenger side.
I only blocked of the two openings in the driver's side. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 11-19-2008, 01:02 PM   #163
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The valve itself is on the drivers side (2 of em, one near the starter, one kinda under the manifold) but it does feed the passenger side.
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Old 11-19-2008, 01:41 PM   #164
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Alright, a couple quick questions-

I was told by a shop/tuner that the sensor everyone is concerned about measures the air that the pump in pushing into the cat, pressure wise.

So that removing the unit and all lines/pumps/solenoids is fine and any check engine lights can be removed without harming the car.

Anyone have any solid experience with this on an 07 STI?

How many people are currently running their 07 STI's without this pump, entirely removed, and have they had any issues?

Thanks,

-Chris
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Old 11-19-2008, 01:56 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechie3 View Post
The valve itself is on the drivers side (2 of em, one near the starter, one kinda under the manifold) but it does feed the passenger side.
Thanks
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Old 11-19-2008, 02:26 PM   #166
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I did this on my car and removed the entire system, including the relays/fuses. Took a while to find out the relay's were throwing an engine light with no code! Disabling the relay CEL's made it go away.

I used cosworth delete plates and had Clark Turner tune my car, no issues from doing this whatsoever after the relay hickup.
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Old 11-19-2008, 06:54 PM   #167
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well as I stated before, I did this mod last night.

This morning I heard a weird noise coming from that area of the engine for about 30 seconds and it went away. It was cold this morning.

Is this normal?
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Old 11-19-2008, 07:40 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elazulWRX View Post
well as I stated before, I did this mod last night.

This morning I heard a weird noise coming from that area of the engine for about 30 seconds and it went away. It was cold this morning.

Is this normal?
I am doing this on saturday

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Old 11-20-2008, 02:43 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elazulWRX View Post
well as I stated before, I did this mod last night.

This morning I heard a weird noise coming from that area of the engine for about 30 seconds and it went away. It was cold this morning.

Is this normal?
What area?? This system has "area's" on the passenger and driver side of the engine and on the driver side firewall.

Generally speaking, wierd noises aren't normal.
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Old 11-20-2008, 04:36 PM   #170
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What openings do you state you blocked off? If you didn't remove the valves completely it's possible you heard them actuating. I can't really say much without knowing what exactly you removed, how much you left, and what/where you blocked it off.
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:29 PM   #171
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I really want some solid facts on this:

Can it be done with no ill side effects on the car?

How many check engine lights should you be expecting to have to delete?

How much of the system can you remove, or do you remove the entire system solenoids and all?
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:40 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SatinWhitePearl View Post
Alright, a couple quick questions-

I was told by a shop/tuner that the sensor everyone is concerned about measures the air that the pump in pushing into the cat, pressure wise.

So that removing the unit and all lines/pumps/solenoids is fine and any check engine lights can be removed without harming the car.

Anyone have any solid experience with this on an 07 STI?

How many people are currently running their 07 STI's without this pump, entirely removed, and have they had any issues?

Thanks,

-Chris
Plug in the air pump system valve that has the bigger sensor on it. It contains the Atmospheric Pressure Sensor. Disable the codes. It will run kinda weird on cold starts, but you can adjust the cold start enrichment fueling tables for it. I have no air pump. 2 catch cans take up that spot instead.

-Gabe
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:48 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innovative Tuning View Post
I have a feeling the people not having issues are not unplugging that portion of the system:


You can isolate the ground wire and run it yourself if you don't want to keep that unit shown for clearance, like when you're putting a GT35R kit and a front mount IC on an 07 STi...
Yeah that is the one.


Next to the catch cans, I have mine zip tied in there.

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Old 11-21-2008, 02:10 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabedude View Post
Plug in the air pump system valve that has the bigger sensor on it. It contains the Atmospheric Pressure Sensor. Disable the codes. It will run kinda weird on cold starts, but you can adjust the cold start enrichment fueling tables for it. I have no air pump. 2 catch cans take up that spot instead.

-Gabe
So what exactly can be removed? Sorry if my questions seems somewhat repetitive, but I'd like to know if only the black snail looking pump gets removed or more can be removed?

-Chris
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Old 11-21-2008, 09:49 AM   #175
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On my 06 WRX I removed the black snail pump, the rubber hosing, both solenoids, and the hardline to the passenger side with no ill effects. I did not ground out any wires at all.

07 STI's only have 1 solenoid. I don't know if this functions differently that the 06 WRX in terms of the pressure sensor.
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