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Old 11-03-2008, 04:29 PM   #76
BryanH
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well....I will have to take it somewhere else and try and get more camber. These guys don't really seem interested in doing anything but what gets it out the door.

Or maybe just loosen up the camber bolts myself and crank them inwards. I need to go find a magnetic stick-on indicator....I don't feel like paying 100$ just for a degree of camber.
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Old 11-03-2008, 06:23 PM   #77
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Just for reference, I am at -1 1/2* front and -1 3/4* rear. I am still on the stock bolts. I just asked the shop to max out the camber.

For toe, I am 1/32 front and rear.

I got these settings about 2 years ago now, and I like it...
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Old 11-10-2008, 09:01 PM   #78
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so...I finally had a chance to get my car to a GOOD shop and they did a decent alignment including pulling the fronts to -1.5. Interestingly the left rear had also somehow jumped to .17 toe. dunno how that is.
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Old 11-11-2008, 03:54 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by BryanH View Post
so...I finally had a chance to get my car to a GOOD shop and they did a decent alignment including pulling the fronts to -1.5. Interestingly the left rear had also somehow jumped to .17 toe. dunno how that is.
and there is the uneven wear/noise issue I'd bet
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Old 11-11-2008, 05:34 PM   #80
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yeah....I wasn't exactly thrilled about that. But hopefully I won't have this again.

I had them look at everything else and they said everything else looked OK. I may take it back and have THEM re-balance the wheels.
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Old 11-19-2008, 04:13 PM   #81
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Funny, I too have these tires with 23k miles on them, and for the last 1,000 miles I've been dealing with significant rumbling/vibration at 15-20mph. This morning I took it in to the place that sold me the tires, and was told that they were badly cupped due to "poor alignment" and "the sports car suspension" (bone stock '04 WRX). Funny thing is, they hadn't even checked my alignment when they told me that. Apparently, an Impreza is too aggressive to put these tires on They were supposed to check and call me back. I have yet to hear from them. I only rotated them every 9k miles, but it's a daily driver and is driven with a very light foot.
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Old 11-19-2008, 05:00 PM   #82
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Funny, I too have these tires with 23k miles on them, and for the last 1,000 miles I've been dealing with significant rumbling/vibration at 15-20mph. This morning I took it in to the place that sold me the tires, and was told that they were badly cupped due to "poor alignment" and "the sports car suspension" (bone stock '04 WRX). Funny thing is, they hadn't even checked my alignment when they told me that. Apparently, an Impreza is too aggressive to put these tires on They were supposed to check and call me back. I have yet to hear from them. I only rotated them every 9k miles, but it's a daily driver and is driven with a very light foot.
this isnt good

the 'stock' alignment is pure garbage

and the shop telling you any of that bs is just that bull****

read back through this thread to get your best alignment numbers
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Old 11-19-2008, 05:18 PM   #83
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They just called back and told me the problem was that the toe was off by .21 degrees, and I didn't rotate my tires. I said, "They were rotated at 9,000 and 18,000 miles." He said, "Oh, then that should be fine. Then it's just the alignment. The tech recommends an alignment and new tires." But at least they told me everything else from the bearings to the suspension looked fine. I'm going to get the alignment, but I'm just going to see how much longer I can hold onto the tires.
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Old 11-19-2008, 11:02 PM   #84
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rotate tires EVERY oil change and keep the alignment with toe at '0' and you will have far fewer tire issues
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:08 AM   #85
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Well, they got the front toe and steer ahead to 0, but the read toe is still at .19 (same as before the alignment). I asked them to explain how .21 in the front was bad enough to eat up my tires, but .19 in the rear (technically within "the green") was perfectly acceptable. Three of them swore up and down that it was "just right", but I couldn't get a good answer out of them. I guess I'll be rotating much more frequently now.
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:13 AM   #86
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Well, they got the front toe and steer ahead to 0, but the read toe is still at .19 (same as before the alignment). I asked them to explain how .21 in the front was bad enough to eat up my tires, but .19 in the rear (technically within "the green") was perfectly acceptable. Three of them swore up and down that it was "just right", but I couldn't get a good answer out of them. I guess I'll be rotating much more frequently now.
they didnt know how to adjust it properly or just didnt want to

take the car elsewhere and have the rear toe set closer to '0'

a 'green' alignment isnt enough for these cars or tires will die and road noise will get bad
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:52 PM   #87
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After doing some research on the OEM specs and tolerances, it appears that the specs are given in degrees/minutes, but a lot of people are treating the minutes as "tenths." (e.g., Treating 130' the same as 1.3). Am I missing something, but isn't 130' actually 1.5?

Anyway, I'm seeing the tolerance for rear toe-in, each toe angle: 0.09' (0.15). Would this make the total toe tolerance 0.30? IIRC, the printout for the rear showed only the total rear toe, which was 0.19.
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Old 11-20-2008, 04:32 PM   #88
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After doing some research on the OEM specs and tolerances, it appears that the specs are given in degrees/minutes, but a lot of people are treating the minutes as "tenths." (e.g., Treating 130' the same as 1.3). Am I missing something, but isn't 130' actually 1.5?

Anyway, I'm seeing the tolerance for rear toe-in, each toe angle: 0.09' (0.15). Would this make the total toe tolerance 0.30? IIRC, the printout for the rear showed only the total rear toe, which was 0.19.
forget the ****ing oem numbers
they suck

'0'...toe....not 'almost' and if it isnt even, side to side, then it isnt right either

you will be better off at '0' or much closer than it is
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Old 11-20-2008, 05:16 PM   #89
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Yes. If you want to get decent tire wear from a WRX then get the front alignment set to zero toe.

I have a stock '03 WRX Sedan. I got extremely uneven tire wear on the stock RE92s. That got worse when I started running softer MXs. Forget the OEM front toe setting. I asked the shop to set the front toe to zero and got more than 30K miles of even wear from the relatively short-lived MXs.

Interestingly, the shop guy said it's impossible to set the WRX fronts to "zero" toe. He said it was not mechanically possible.

Uncle Scotty: I got another alignment done when the new Kumho XS tires went on earlier this month. Here is the alignment printout for your perusal and comment. What do you see here?


Last edited by yzer; 11-20-2008 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 11-20-2008, 07:56 PM   #90
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Yes. If you want to get decent tire wear from a WRX then get the front alignment set to zero toe.

I have a stock '03 WRX Sedan. I got extremely uneven tire wear on the stock RE92s. That got worse when I started running softer MXs. Forget the OEM front toe setting. I asked the shop to set the front toe to zero and got more than 30K miles of even wear from the relatively short-lived MXs.

Interestingly, the shop guy said it's impossible to set the WRX fronts to "zero" toe. He said it was not mechanically possible.

Uncle Scotty: I got another alignment done when the new Kumho XS tires went on earlier this month. Here is the alignment printout for your perusal and comment. What do you see here?


you have '0' camber?????



that is just NOT right

no as in not

and you have soemthing wrong with the caster being 'off' like that


and no 'before' numbers???

yu may as well be running dirt cheap no name tires

that alignment SUCKS
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:32 PM   #91
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yeah that alignment some guy just threw the heads on and tried to adjust toe to the green in like 2 mins and did not care, wanted the next "good" job.

really it is sorta hard to find a place that cares that much about doing an alignment all that good. just cause stuff is in the green does not mean it is good either. if you want "better" specs then you will have to call around and tell them to be honest with you about truly caring about doing your alignment.

surely someone in the norcal area on this board knows a decent alignment tech.
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:46 PM   #92
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The caster is kind of weird. Any explaination of these values would be appreciated.

But before saying the alignment "sucks," consider this.

I like going fast on freeway offramps and driving country roads with some tight turns a couple of times a week. Like most daily drivers, I drive in a straight line on freeways and streets most of the time.

I was getting uneven tire wear with stock alignment on the stock RE92s. At proper PSI and with tire rotation, both sides of the front tires wore too fast, but the inner corner wear was worst.

New alignment with close to zero toe fixed the uneven wear problem after I started running softer compound MXs. No more uneven wear. The insides and outsides wore evenly and a little faster than the mid-line tread.

Negative camber up front will two things. It will allow for better performance on turns by maximizing the tire's contact patch. It will also increase tire wear on the inside tread.

I run extreme performance tires all year long. I have enough cornering grip without adding negative camber and increasing inside tread wear.

Now, if I wanted to increase the percentage of twisty driving that I do, or if I wanted to get less sticky tires and compensate for less grip then I'd go the negative camber route.

If the alignment sucks, I appreciate those comments, too. I' look around for a better shop.
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Old 11-20-2008, 11:00 PM   #93
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The caster is kind of weird. Any explaination of these values would be appreciated.

But before saying the alignment "sucks," consider this.

I like going fast on freeway offramps and driving country roads with some tight turns a couple of times a week. Like most daily drivers, I drive in a straight line on freeways and streets most of the time.

I was getting uneven tire wear with stock alignment on the stock RE92s. At proper PSI and with tire rotation, both sides of the front tires wore too fast, but the inner corner wear was worst.

New alignment with close to zero toe fixed the uneven wear problem after I started running softer compound MXs. No more uneven wear. The insides and outsides wore evenly and a little faster than the mid-line tread.

Negative camber up front will two things. It will allow for better performance on turns by maximizing the tire's contact patch. It will also increase tire wear on the inside tread.

I run extreme performance tires all year long. I have enough cornering grip without adding negative camber and increasing inside tread wear.

Now, if I wanted to increase the percentage of twisty driving that I do, or if I wanted to get less sticky tires and compensate for less grip then I'd go the negative camber route.

If the alignment sucks, I appreciate those comments, too. I' look around for a better shop.

OMFG...

this is the lamest thing I have heard in a LONG time....no...MAKE THAT EVER

you think '0' camber is what you want???

YOU ARE A KING SIZED FOOL
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:14 AM   #94
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Where are you at in Norcal. I know a good shop in Sacramento that can FIX your alignment. 0 camber is retarded. Even the factory puts some camber on there. I have been running the stock camber bolts maxed out (right around -1.6) since I got my first alignment at like 3000 miles. I am now at 55,000 miles and I have never had uneven wear. Toe will destroy your tires, but camber will have a negligable effect on tire wear until you start to get into extreme amounts. Like more than the stock bolts can go... Good luck...
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Old 11-21-2008, 04:01 PM   #95
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Where are you at in Norcal. I know a good shop in Sacramento that can FIX your alignment. 0 camber is retarded. Even the factory puts some camber on there. I have been running the stock camber bolts maxed out (right around -1.6) since I got my first alignment at like 3000 miles. I am now at 55,000 miles and I have never had uneven wear. Toe will destroy your tires, but camber will have a negligable effect on tire wear until you start to get into extreme amounts. Like more than the stock bolts can go... Good luck...
Thanks for the constructive info and comments. I live next door to Sacramento. Would you PM the name of that shop? I'd like to get this done pretty soon. I went to an independent shop that got a lot a good recommendations.

-I'm going back to the shop that did the alignment this aftenoon. I'll see if they will do a make good and correct for negative camber. I'd still like that recommendation for the Sacto shop, tho.

Last edited by yzer; 11-21-2008 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 11-22-2008, 01:31 AM   #96
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that is really the strangest alignment sheet I have ever seen. They usually always put the before on there and then adjust to spec. And the fact that you have numbers there that are still in red and it doesn't really give you an after number with a real corrected caster number is kinda weird.

Do you have any shops that are 4x4 or off road shops? Or maybe a shop is used by the local autocross guys? Usually these guys know how to align a suspension and will set it to whatever the hell you want.
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Old 11-22-2008, 03:40 PM   #97
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I took the car back to the same shop yesterday afternoon and they redid the alignment. It's an independent shop in town and I get along with them pretty well. I still don't know why they set the car to zero camber because I didn't ask for that. All I asked for was zero toe. My mistake was talking myself into thinking they had a good reason for the zero camber.

All is well now. I've got -1.2 on the camber, the toe is zero at .01 and -.01. I can set up more negative camber next time if I want. The tech said resetting negative camber helped to correct the the caster numbers: now 2.8 and 3.1. I don't know what to make of that.

Yes, the car feels more like it should in turns. I've got a better idea of what these print-out numbers look like now. Wish I took a better look at them the first time.
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Old 01-05-2009, 04:43 PM   #98
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I am probably going to get a set of these tires tomorrow. I was thinking about having the alignment done as well. I already know what I want camber and toe wise, but don't know much about caster angles on the WRX. Is there a good recommendation on Caster? Is "in the green" good enough?
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Old 01-05-2009, 04:54 PM   #99
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Caster is not adjustable. You can get an Anti Lift Kit to adjust caster. Otherwise just worry about camber and toe...

I have had the tires for about 15000 miles now. Still lots of tread and lots of grip. I hope to have another set of wheels for summer tires soon, but until then, these are the grippiest all seasons that I have encountered. I still like them...
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Old 01-05-2009, 04:55 PM   #100
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I am probably going to get a set of these tires tomorrow. I was thinking about having the alignment done as well. I already know what I want camber and toe wise, but don't know much about caster angles on the WRX. Is there a good recommendation on Caster? Is "in the green" good enough?
caster is not adjustable
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