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Old 03-04-2008, 08:31 PM   #251
HamFist
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(BTW) Bearings typically get oversized on the outside to fit to an align bore. If it were oversize on the oil film side, clearances would be way out of spec.
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Old 03-07-2008, 01:13 AM   #252
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There is probably a little mis use of terminology on the oversize description. When a thicker bearing shell is used it is to fill the space created from either align boring the block to fix a damaged bearing saddle surface, in which it is called oversize and when the crank is turned down to be cleaned up the bearing is called undersize. You can get bearings larger on the outside to fit a align bored block or case and they can also be undersize on the crank side to make up for the crank being turned down. Thus the bearing shell will be thicker for one or two reasons.
At any circumstance the clearances are set to the same standard as they would be if no machining were done.

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Old 03-25-2008, 12:39 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
I've already looked into them and have a huge collection of bearing size and widths from when I was hunting down my source for a better bearing size.
The RB25/26 are essentially a 48mm diameter and 17.1mm wide. IIRC the VG30 and RB30 are the same as well.
We are 52mm (except phase 1 EJ25) and 16.5mm wide.
Has anyone looked into (or been successful) widening the rod journals on a stock crank and using wider end rods and bearings to match? Spread the load a little better as it were.

Do any of the aftermarket billet cranks do this? (I know that Cosworth doesn't).

My information is that when you use calculators to calculate force etc, that even on a stock WRX STi EJ257 (with ~100mm pistons) that this rod journal width is way below minimum limits...let alone on a big HP version.

Last edited by TORC; 03-25-2008 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 03-25-2008, 03:00 PM   #254
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no off the shelf aftermarket rod does..I know I'm doing it and ron (raw/axis performance) has done it...
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Old 03-25-2008, 07:50 PM   #255
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Crawford did just that with Pauter about 6-7 years ago. thought it was the "new" best thing.

Bent and broke cranks due to it weakening them.

Canned that process as they were having great luck with the stock setup as is.

Im not sure what their billet crank has as far as journals. I'd be you could use OEM bearings on it, though?

FWIW....
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Old 03-25-2008, 08:14 PM   #256
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how much wider did they go?!! I haven't done much wider on my own for that exact reason...IIRC, ron is doing .080" wider
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Old 03-25-2008, 08:16 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
how much wider did they go?!! I'm not doing much in widening on my own and IIRC, ron is doing .080" wider
You know what. I don't know.

When I asked about the wider bearings and the pauter rods. They said Pauter had approached them about this years ago and that it was more of a hassle and caused more problems. So they stuck with the standard pauters and OEM size bearings.

And oem bearings
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:07 PM   #258
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i love how we still haven't figured out what the problem is. After reading all 11 pages, I've gone back and forth on "knowing" what the problem is. Now I'm just as confused as ever. Any updates?
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Old 07-10-2008, 06:23 PM   #259
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i love how we still haven't figured out what the problem is. After reading all 11 pages, I've gone back and forth on "knowing" what the problem is. Now I'm just as confused as ever. Any updates?
heh heh yeah... and aftermarket cranks still cost BIG money...

I assume that just cross drilling the crank, and leaving relativly "stock bearing clearance" is the way to go ?? This along with the 12mm oil pump should leave a safe redline of around 8k ??

they sell those "screamer" subaru motors that are sapposedly good for up to 10,000rpm... I wonder exactly how they achieve that safely ?? dry sump for sure?
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Old 07-11-2008, 03:45 AM   #260
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ya you could assuming drilling another cross drilled hole to make the X shape, but then you could also say that that would further reduce oil pressure to the rod bearings. The non cross drilled cranks looked promising but then were kind of forgot about. And now the mains don't get as much oil?.... no conclusions....
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Old 07-25-2008, 02:11 AM   #261
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nothing yet? I was looking at an h22 and a 4g63 and they all have the single cross drilled pattern. The obvious problem is the way the boxer is set up.
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Old 07-31-2008, 12:13 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
enjoy
new crank 3

old crank 1

old crank 2
Can anyone confirm this double drilled EJ205 crank part # is 12200AA240 or is different... just to make shure to order the right one

Thanks in advance...
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Old 07-31-2008, 01:27 PM   #263
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IIRC 220 is the old and 240 is the new...I think I posted the numbers. And I've ordered numerous of the same part number...all are the same part.
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Old 10-03-2008, 03:54 AM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
IIRC 220 is the old and 240 is the new...I think I posted the numbers. And I've ordered numerous of the same part number...all are the same part.
*Correct* for JDM cranks, -220 has been superceded by p/no: -240

It's possible some Dealers outside of Japan might still have -220 cranks in Stock; but ordering a -220 crank here now + they'll deliver the -240

170-067-001 on our Site

http://www.japanparts.com/db/partsli...ey=170-067-001

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Old 02-16-2009, 04:54 PM   #265
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[/IMG] Are these rod bearings narrow they look to be narrower than stock.
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:02 PM   #266
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I have some stickers laying around. If you want I can mic them for you.
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Old 02-17-2009, 12:10 PM   #267
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This is something that was touched on briefly in the discussion but no one expanded further. It is an important point for this engine design, and speaks volumes about why such a relative short stroke 75mm on 2L can't make very high RPM 10 000 reliably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
I've already looked into them and have a huge collection of bearing size and widths from when I was hunting down my source for a better bearing size.
The RB25/26 are essentially a 48mm diameter and 17.1mm wide. IIRC the VG30 and RB30 are the same as well.
We are 52mm (except phase 1 EJ25) and 16.5mm wide.
The inherent problem with the flat 4 oiling is the volume & supply at a decent pressure across the rev range. Overcome this and most of the discussion on cross drilling the crank will have little point untill you hit about 10 000 RPM. Unfortunately the cost of improving this is far outside of most people.

I know most like the 2,5 for its torque, though i have always worked on and prefered JDM 2L.

interesting discussion.....
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:08 PM   #268
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More flow for more pressure... you need firstly more pressure.
Why do I say that... according to my understanding of engine bearings is that the bearings is an oil retainer medium and that there should always be an oil layer between the bearing and the crank journal. The problem is that high RPM's results in increase of the force on the bearing due to the up and down movement of the rod and forces the bearing to make contact with the journal. Lightweight rods and pistons will not require as much oil pressure at the same RPM as a steel rod. Higher pressure can help keeping the bearing away from the journal.
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Old 02-17-2009, 03:37 PM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acssa View Post
More flow for more pressure... you need firstly more pressure.
Why do I say that... according to my understanding of engine bearings is that the bearings is an oil retainer medium and that there should always be an oil layer between the bearing and the crank journal. The problem is that high RPM's results in increase of the force on the bearing due to the up and down movement of the rod and forces the bearing to make contact with the journal. Lightweight rods and pistons will not require as much oil pressure at the same RPM as a steel rod. Higher pressure can help keeping the bearing away from the journal.
And if it was that simple, none of us would have rod bearing failures.
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Old 02-17-2009, 03:58 PM   #270
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Does anyone have a definate, this will work answer? I replace my shortblock at 50k now at 61 I fried another #3 rod bearing. I don't race, I do beat on it though. I just want a reliable but fun car. I have the hybrid set up now and I am going to install new rod bearings and possibly one of those JDM 12mm pumps. I was planning on replacing the crank with an OEM one for 400 bucks instead of having it turned. Would getting a "straight through", "not cross drilled" be worth it? I was also leaning towards an accusump resevoir any other suggestions. I am strapped for cash but I don't want to have to replace this block again next year either, apart from keeping the rpms under 6500, what is the best solution. definate answer not speculations as stated in the past agonizing 11 pages, would be appreciated. cheap and relaible.
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Old 02-17-2009, 04:12 PM   #271
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Would getting a "straight through", "not cross drilled" be worth it?

Yes, but even the cheapest one's are like $1250.
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Old 02-17-2009, 04:53 PM   #272
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Yes, but even the cheapest one's are like $1250.
However even the cheapest rebuilds generally cost more than $1250
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:37 PM   #273
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Element tuning's stock crank car turns 9k rpms...maybe we need to ask what they do?
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Old 02-17-2009, 06:20 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by domestic_abuser View Post
Element tuning's stock crank car turns 9k rpms...maybe we need to ask what they do?
I call B.S.

It might spin there for a couple seconds.

8k is realistic. 9k on a stock untouched crank is marketing.
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Old 02-17-2009, 06:31 PM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvcsk8r View Post
Does anyone have a definate, this will work answer? I replace my shortblock at 50k now at 61 I fried another #3 rod bearing. I don't race, I do beat on it though. I just want a reliable but fun car. I have the hybrid set up now and I am going to install new rod bearings and possibly one of those JDM 12mm pumps. I was planning on replacing the crank with an OEM one for 400 bucks instead of having it turned. Would getting a "straight through", "not cross drilled" be worth it? I was also leaning towards an accusump resevoir any other suggestions. I am strapped for cash but I don't want to have to replace this block again next year either, apart from keeping the rpms under 6500, what is the best solution. definate answer not speculations as stated in the past agonizing 11 pages, would be appreciated. cheap and relaible.
maybe your attention is best spent trying to figure out what went wrong with your first two failures?

i mean, i've got 70k modded miles on my car, and i don't baby it rpm-wise. i use the devil's own mobil1, only change it 3 times a year, and i've got no issues. i've been running 25psi on a vf23 for 4 years, and the only person to tune my car is me. using electronic det cans, i programmed custom knock sensitivity settings in my utec that i know for a fact pick up knock the oem ecu does not.

imho and ime the vast majority of bottom end failures are VERY likely due to detonation.. det that puts shock loads on the bearings at LEAST 10x higher than they see in normal service.

are there oiling issues with the h4? sure, you can see there would be just by looking at the return paths... but don't automatically assume bearing issues can be solved via the lubrication system.
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