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Old 04-20-2009, 11:02 AM   #1
bushwahkhan
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Default 2009 Impreza 2.5i Conversion wrx engine swap?

Hey all,

I am new to nasioc and a proud new owner of the 2009 impreza. I was actually in the market for a new Wrx but I just did not have the mooolah to afford one :P. I am mostly trying to go for performance and have been reading and looking around about how to do work on my impreza. Some have suggested to wait and trade it in but the only issues I have with that is being able to find a nice in good shape wrx . Also the fact that I drove this car off the lot with 12 miles . Some have also said to drop a wrx engine into it since that engine is already turboed and im sure that mounting that engine into it would be fairly identical? Would that make more sense than just boosting the current engine or are they two different motors? Sorry for all the newbie questions im still reading and learning a little more about them but any help, opinions, suggestions about how to go about it would be greatly appreciated!

also wanted to add it: I could swap like a 08 or 07 motor ?

Thanks,
Alex
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Old 04-20-2009, 07:56 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bushwahkhan View Post
Hey all,

I am new to nasioc and a proud new owner of the 2009 impreza. I was actually in the market for a new Wrx but I just did not have the mooolah to afford one :P. I am mostly trying to go for performance and have been reading and looking around about how to do work on my impreza. Some have suggested to wait and trade it in but the only issues I have with that is being able to find a nice in good shape wrx . Also the fact that I drove this car off the lot with 12 miles . Some have also said to drop a wrx engine into it since that engine is already turboed and im sure that mounting that engine into it would be fairly identical? Would that make more sense than just boosting the current engine or are they two different motors? Sorry for all the newbie questions im still reading and learning a little more about them but any help, opinions, suggestions about how to go about it would be greatly appreciated!

also wanted to add it: I could swap like a 08 or 07 motor ?

Thanks,
Alex
If you mean performance as in speed, then you made the wrong choice. If you mean performance as in handling, then there is some potential. You will be wasting your time and money trying to turbo your n/a motor. And you will spend far more money trying to do a swap than if you had just saved for a little while and bought a WRX instead of jumping into an Impreza. Trade it in if you want performance. Get some handling bits if you want a car that will be fun at auto x events or at other organized events.


ALSO: fill out your profile!
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Old 04-21-2009, 04:21 PM   #3
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If you mean performance as in speed, then you made the wrong choice. If you mean performance as in handling, then there is some potential. You will be wasting your time and money trying to turbo your n/a motor. And you will spend far more money trying to do a swap than if you had just saved for a little while and bought a WRX instead of jumping into an Impreza. Trade it in if you want performance. Get some handling bits if you want a car that will be fun at auto x events or at other organized events.


ALSO: fill out your profile!

Thanks I will. Gotcha :/....well....at first I was trying to find a used wrx from a dealership so I could finance but I could not find anything....Im afraid that im not going to be able to find anything if I do decide to trade it in......any suggestions?
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Old 04-21-2009, 04:46 PM   #4
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Buy an older STI for the same price or less? The problem is you're already locked into this Impreza, if you don't keep it 3 years, you'll lose your shirt. You're probably underwater on it 2-4 grand at this point (meaning it's worth less than you owe on it). If you engine swap it, it'll be worth even less. Hell, just kiss the warranty goodbye and any resale too.

I think a non-turbo impreza could be fun to mod. Wheels/Tires/Brakes and suspension. All the good stuff will fit.
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Old 04-21-2009, 06:19 PM   #5
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Buy an older STI for the same price or less? The problem is you're already locked into this Impreza, if you don't keep it 3 years, you'll lose your shirt. You're probably underwater on it 2-4 grand at this point (meaning it's worth less than you owe on it). If you engine swap it, it'll be worth even less. Hell, just kiss the warranty goodbye and any resale too.

I think a non-turbo impreza could be fun to mod. Wheels/Tires/Brakes and suspension. All the good stuff will fit.
yea the problem was I could not find any used/older sti's or wrx's at any dealership even the dealer that I talked to said they were very hard to find (maybe I got sold on that). After getting several different opinions it seems like only thing that would be worth would be to just save up for a used sti or wrx from and A) trade this in? B) Keep it and do some nice body work and things like that ?. Only problem is would it make sense to trade it in now for a used sti or wrx? or to wait for a few years ? What did you mean by I would lose my shirt?) I know im probably down 3-4 g's now but I would imagine you could get a used sti ( if I could find it) for about 14/15?

Also, just a thought, someone had suggested just going all motor as in no turbo but putting in intake, exhaust, and headers.....but aren't ej motors meant to be turboed?

~Alex
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:22 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by bushwahkhan View Post

Also, just a thought, someone had suggested just going all motor as in no turbo but putting in intake, exhaust, and headers.....but aren't ej motors meant to be turboed?

~Alex
Not neccesarily. Come on over to the Normally Aspirated forum and see what's up. My 2.5RS has WRX power in it with no turbo. Your car can actually be tuned for the mods, so you'll se even better gains than I did.

And fill in your profile before you post again. You keep saying you couldn't find a WRX but we don't even know where the hell you live. If you had shown a little patience people here on NASIOC could help you find a used WRX or STi. They aren't that rare and even if you live somewhere where there are ZERO cars for sale one way airfare is cheap these days. Paying $150-200 on a flight to go somewhere else and buy the right car to drive home is not a major undertaking. That's where NASIOC locals come in. People will inspect cars for you and help you not get ripped off before you buy the plane ticket. There's lot's of ways out of the box you are in...
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:15 AM   #7
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What did you mean by I would lose my shirt?) I know im probably down 3-4 g's now but I would imagine you could get a used sti ( if I could find it) for about 14/15?
Unless you bought the 09 outright, which most people can't afford. You got a loan for 25K or whatever the car costs. The second you drive it off the lot, it probably dropped in value to 21-22K. You still own 25K on it though. You trade it in, you're going to have to come up with 2-4K out of pocket to buy yourself out of your loan. That's "being underwater". It's going to take 3 year normally for the value of the car to match your loan amount so, you can trade it in or sell it for what you owe.

Lets say tomorrow the dealer got a 04 STI on trade. He's paying 12-15K (I didn't look it up) for it and is going to turn it around for 21-22K. Lets say you want to buy it. You can trade in your car and pay the dealer another 4K to cover the loan (Loan amount - what the car is worth = cash you have to pay out), then you have to get a new loan for 21-22K to buy the STI.

You might be able to roll the negative equity into the new loan, but, then you're paying 25K for an STI that's worth 21 and you're in the hole again.

If you bought the car with cash, this is a non-issue. You trade it in, eat the 4K loss in value and buy the STI.
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Old 04-22-2009, 05:49 AM   #8
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Since you are new to Subarus, then it is probably a good thing you got a 2.5i. It is a good car to start off with for learning the handling characteristics of the Impreza platform before stepping up the power. Try checking out your local autocross events and try your hand at it for a while. It will improve your driving skills and give you a better idea as to how you would like to modify your car. Start off with some better tires and go from there. Don't put yourself in major debt by trading your car in right away. Just stick with what you've got for a few years and you will be glad you did.

Also, whomever is giving you advice on modifying your brand new car does not have your best interests in mind. Mod-friendly dealerships are few and far between. Even basics mods can lead to denied waranty claims and leave you stuck with costly repair bills.

Mick
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:59 AM   #9
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Unless you bought the 09 outright, which most people can't afford. You got a loan for 25K or whatever the car costs. The second you drive it off the lot, it probably dropped in value to 21-22K. You still own 25K on it though. You trade it in, you're going to have to come up with 2-4K out of pocket to buy yourself out of your loan. That's "being underwater". It's going to take 3 year normally for the value of the car to match your loan amount so, you can trade it in or sell it for what you owe.

Lets say tomorrow the dealer got a 04 STI on trade. He's paying 12-15K (I didn't look it up) for it and is going to turn it around for 21-22K. Lets say you want to buy it. You can trade in your car and pay the dealer another 4K to cover the loan (Loan amount - what the car is worth = cash you have to pay out), then you have to get a new loan for 21-22K to buy the STI.

You might be able to roll the negative equity into the new loan, but, then you're paying 25K for an STI that's worth 21 and you're in the hole again.

If you bought the car with cash, this is a non-issue. You trade it in, eat the 4K loss in value and buy the STI.
I see what your saying. Yea I didn't buy it with cash im not that much of a baller haha :P. Yea I got it out the door for 19,500. So I guess if I wanted to trade it in it would make sense to wait?
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:06 AM   #10
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Not neccesarily. Come on over to the Normally Aspirated forum and see what's up. My 2.5RS has WRX power in it with no turbo. Your car can actually be tuned for the mods, so you'll se even better gains than I did.

And fill in your profile before you post again. You keep saying you couldn't find a WRX but we don't even know where the hell you live. If you had shown a little patience people here on NASIOC could help you find a used WRX or STi. They aren't that rare and even if you live somewhere where there are ZERO cars for sale one way airfare is cheap these days. Paying $150-200 on a flight to go somewhere else and buy the right car to drive home is not a major undertaking. That's where NASIOC locals come in. People will inspect cars for you and help you not get ripped off before you buy the plane ticket. There's lot's of ways out of the box you are in...
So im not completely off. Good to know thanks! Will do. I will come over there. What did you do to get those types of gains?
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Old 04-22-2009, 11:30 AM   #11
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Do what makes you happy. I wouldn't let $2K stand between me and happiness but, not everyone's that way. I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just explaining why a trade-in right now will be more costly than you might expect.
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:27 PM   #12
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So im not completely off. Good to know thanks! Will do. I will come over there. What did you do to get those types of gains?
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...y+dyno+results
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:39 PM   #13
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Don't bother swapping the car. You'll get even less for it in a year or two when you are tired of it. Stick to bolt on upgrades that you can take off later on down the road. Save your $$$, trade it in and then get a WRX or STi.
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Old 04-28-2009, 03:45 PM   #14
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the dealer that I talked to said they were very hard to find (maybe I got sold on that)
This.
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Old 10-15-2009, 08:52 PM   #15
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I see what your saying. Yea I didn't buy it with cash im not that much of a baller haha :P. Yea I got it out the door for 19,500. So I guess if I wanted to trade it in it would make sense to wait?

? did u get the 2.5i premium? becuase i got mine 17,495 out the door. went thru costco but then the guy just said he'd sale it from the base price instead cuz thru costco it would take a couple days and bout 200bucks for costco..

And HOW does it get wrx power complete engine?!?!?! is the money spent on doing it worth it tho?
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Old 10-15-2009, 11:00 PM   #16
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? did u get the 2.5i premium? becuase i got mine 17,495 out the door. went thru costco but then the guy just said he'd sale it from the base price instead cuz thru costco it would take a couple days and bout 200bucks for costco..

And HOW does it get wrx power complete engine?!?!?! is the money spent on doing it worth it tho?
from what i've been reading, you achieve WRX power going N/A in the 2.5i's by doing all your bolt on mods and throwing engine management into the mix. WRX they should be referring to is POWER:WEIGHT ratio. Because the 2.5i is lighter than the wrx hatch of our current version, it takes less power to make up the difference.

From what i read, a stock WRX will dyno @ roughly 170WHP where the stock 2.5i will dyno @ around 125whp. Taking stock weights in mind they said getting our 2.5i's to roughly 150WHP will net us the same power:weight ratio needed to equal the WRX power:weight.

So from what i read, doing an intake/header/exhaust/pulley and EM will get us close to 150WHP. And please do read more in the N/A sections. If you decide just to buy an intake and slap it on without any tuning, i've read that it can make you run REALLY lean which will lead to pinging and predet which will eat the non-forged pistons we have in the 2.5i. It is said that due to emissions, the engines on the 2.5i's run a little bit on the lean side already so while adding an exhaust won't prove to be detrimental to you, i believe that adding an intake without proper tuning over the long run will have you winding up in tears over a blown motor.

Last edited by shaowQ; 10-15-2009 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 10-16-2009, 12:09 PM   #17
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i applaud you. that was one of the most well put explainations i've heard over all my research since august when i got my 09 impreza.
lol.
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Old 10-16-2009, 01:50 PM   #18
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I don't really know where this question would be posted but how much do any of you think our flywheel weighs? 09 impreza sedan 2.5i.
And if we were to upgrade to a leighter one how much whp would we get?
or where can i post this to get more accurate answer if not here?
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Old 10-16-2009, 07:07 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Subie-Zero View Post
I don't really know where this question would be posted but how much do any of you think our flywheel weighs? 09 impreza sedan 2.5i.
And if we were to upgrade to a leighter one how much whp would we get?
or where can i post this to get more accurate answer if not here?

a lighter flywheel doesn't necessarily net you more WHP. What it allows you to do is go through your RPMs faster. Because a lightwheel flywheel is well...lighter than your OEM flywheel, there is less rotational mass associated with it.

Meaning...because it's lighter, it's easier to turn/push/throw/pull(however you wanna see it) your flywheel.

My example would be(TOTALLY HYPOTHETICAL), lets say you floor it in 3rd gear and it takes you 10 seconds to take you from 30mph in 3rd gear to 90 MPH in 3rd gear. When you install the lightweight flywheel it only takes you 7 seconds. Your power curve should look relatively similar if not identical to your past power curves, but it allows you go through the rpms in a shorter amt of time in order to reach the peak points in yer powerband faster.

Some down sides to having a lighter flywheel, is it won't hold inertia as well due to it's lighter weight, so in the normal time it takes you to shift gears right now, lets say 1.5 seconds for you to shift gears, and in that time your rpms would drop from a 4k rpm shift point to 3k rpm originally, now your rpms will be at 2600 in that same 1.5 seconds instead of 3k which is where engine speed is supposed to be at in that gear at that rpm.

A stock flywheel is figured out and tuned to your average drivers shift speed. They figure that it takes xxxx number of seconds for the average person to shift, so xxxx weight flywheel will hold enough inertia to keep the flywheel going until you re-engage the clutch for a perfect shift. You change that dynamic with a lightweight flywheel and not much else.
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Old 10-16-2009, 08:33 PM   #20
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You obviously want some speed and don't have a budget. Save your money and get a better car down the road.


Pissing away money on N/A builds just don't pay out like a good turbo build on these boxer engines. Sure you can have a great build for a nominal amount of cash, but get the right engine/turbo and you won't be disappointed.

Also have fun with insurance, you're gonna get creamed. you sound young. YOu're gonna get creamed.


Save your money, learn as much as you can, THEN get a car that will suit you and your needs.


::cough:: ::cough::: nissan ::cough:: ::cough::


I would stick with AWD if and only IF:

A) YOu need it in a colder region of America.
B) You stumbled across a CHEAP wrx or RS and had the experience to build it.
C) Had the cash to really tune the suspension.

This is just me.

2cents. good luck.
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Old 10-16-2009, 08:35 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subie-Zero View Post
I don't really know where this question would be posted but how much do any of you think our flywheel weighs? 09 impreza sedan 2.5i.
And if we were to upgrade to a leighter one how much whp would we get?
or where can i post this to get more accurate answer if not here?

If you really want to pick peanuts out of poop:

Any way you can lessen the drivetrain loss on a non-turbo subie is good. As previously stated you won't "gain" HP you'll just loose less.


2cents.
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Old 10-17-2009, 04:46 PM   #22
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look 50cents.

i got my 09 2.5i $17500

+3500 exhuast headers intake tune. with maybe some install labor
$21000 for the speed closer to wrx (without sound or look of exhuast & headers) because of power:weight ratio without paying $25000 Im all for it.

didn't sound too bad to me...so 4000 bux cheaper i can get it MADE to turbo ready. but having a turbo in the car rapes the wallet for insurance, plus the gasoline it would need and mpg. or i can get sways and suspension still and put sum "funky fresh, sick @$$" wheels. lol. ... and i snow track a lot. awd is awesome. and i think if cared for real well, subaru can last pretty far down the road..

but thanx for being a dick about it. and it sounds like u don't get any hp from a lighter flywheel but if its making any part of the drivetrain lighter with the same engine output, i would think it would improve whp? since hp is less when converted to whp?.

Last edited by Subie-Zero; 10-17-2009 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 10-17-2009, 08:16 PM   #23
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if one buys a new WRX one would have to pay the government more money in the form of taxes. How would insurence know if you did a swap and got a turbo?
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Old 10-18-2009, 01:26 AM   #24
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if anything happens they dont cover you. and then some places check... or could've just been i got the main lady (who had a friend with wrx insured) at the insurance place when i went. lol.
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Old 10-18-2009, 03:38 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Subie-Zero View Post
it sounds like u don't get any hp from a lighter flywheel but if its making any part of the drivetrain lighter with the same engine output, i would think it would improve whp? since hp is less when converted to whp?.
your logic makes sense and however small it may be, having a lightweight flywheel should "free up" some hp but the main thing is being able to go through your rpms faster...it revs a lot fasters and the revs drop a lot faster between shifts


For me...we needed a car + i've always wanted AWD...a WRX/STI was never in our budget but we tried, and i found this 08 2.5i premium on special, so i've got the navi, steering wheel controls and such, got it for 18,600, 30 miles on it when it left the lot. I've got a hookup with wholesale pricing @ megan racing and centric/powerslot/stoptech and after i get close to running out the warranty, im gonna go look into the twin scoll turbo from Garage Tuning whom i work 1 block away from.

Until then all bolt on, full suspension and exterior mods only.

Last edited by shaowQ; 10-27-2009 at 04:01 PM.
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