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Old 05-11-2009, 12:40 PM   #1
mateospeed
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Default Alignment setting suggestions for track setup

I'm setting up my WRX for HPDE use (stepping up from a spec miata), and wondered about alignment settings (specifically camber) for the car. It's seen a good bit of autocross on street tires, and with camber plates set at ~3 degrees, it still murdered the outside edges of the tires and didn't touch anywhere else.
I can only imagine body roll getting worse with stickies, so I see the problem being exacerbated.

Car mods: Ground Control Coilover kit, stock dampers. 300lb/in springs, F/R. Ground Control Front camber plates in front. Stock wheel bearings, 17" wheels to clear Brembos.
Current alignment settings: 0 toe F/R, 1.5 degrees negative camber all around.

Can anyone tell me what appropriate settings for this type of setup would be? I'm unwilling to purchase a roll bar at this point; I'd like to run the car like it is, then modify further and watch the improvement. In the meantime, I'd rather not destroy tires.

I'm worried that by running enough camber to avoid rolling over the tires, I'll have absolutely no strait-line grip, effectively killing braking zones.

Thanks!!
-Matt McBride
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Old 05-11-2009, 12:46 PM   #2
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you went from spec miata to a wrx? I went just the other way from a STi to a spec miata.

I would try to find some bigger sway bars if you're getting a lot of roll. something in the ball park of 24/24 or 27/24.

for alignment specs I ran ~-3 in the front, -1.5 in the back, max caster, with a touch of toe in in the rear, and a touch out in the front.
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Old 05-11-2009, 12:56 PM   #3
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Will this car be driven on the street at all for daily use?

I suggest -2 f / -1.5 r

What tires will you be running?
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Old 05-11-2009, 01:14 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterwaterfallin View Post
you went from spec miata to a wrx? I went just the other way from a STi to a spec miata.

I would try to find some bigger sway bars if you're getting a lot of roll. something in the ball park of 24/24 or 27/24.

for alignment specs I ran ~-3 in the front, -1.5 in the back, max caster, with a touch of toe in in the rear, and a touch out in the front.
He hit the nail on the head there... although you might want to start with -2.5 up front and see if you like it (and if the tires like it).
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Old 05-11-2009, 01:16 PM   #5
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Just don't run 5w-30 at the track.

I'm at -2.5F -2+ R and I could use more up front.
24mm/24mm bars.

I wouldn't normally run so much in the back but, I need it to get clearance for my tires and wheels. The car's fairly neutral with a touch of understeer. I could probably dial it out by going one stiffer on the rear bar. I'd had a 27mm front bar and didn't like it for the track. The front end tended to skitter over bumps. I think because the bar prevented the suspension from acting independently.
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Old 05-11-2009, 01:50 PM   #6
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^ agree.

Im at -2.5 front with canted front plates with -1.4 in the rear. 24/24 sounds better to me as well then 27/24 ...which i also did not like.

right now im at 22/26.

But this is an sti.. and there's some difference with a wrx setup. Like spazegun said i think starting with -2.5 front is a great start.
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Old 05-11-2009, 03:10 PM   #7
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Also an STi checking in

-3 in front, -2 in rear for me. Caster is almost max in the front. Rear toe 1/16th (total) in, front toe 1/8th (total) out.

I used to run straight up rear toe, and the car felt more stable in a straight line... but definitely was unpredictable under braking. The rear toe helped a lot.

at -2.25 to -2.5 camber in the front I had terrible problems tearing up the outer edges of tires. -3.0 SEEMS to be good.
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Old 05-12-2009, 07:47 AM   #8
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3 degrees of camber... god, that just sounds atrocious.

In terms of tires, I'm planning on running Koni Challenge take-offs. For those that don't know, they're hoosiers, but are essentially an endurance compound, and are harder than your average hoosier.

I know sway bars are a must, and plan on running big ones as soon as I can. I'd also like to get 6gun's balljoint relocation kit, in order to run less static camber.
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:14 AM   #9
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My ST2 car with full STI drivetrain.

-3.5 in front, -2 in back.
750lb spring front, 650 rear.
22 mm front, 24 rear.

1/16 toe in (rear) Zero toe in the front.

-Duncan
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Old 05-12-2009, 12:22 PM   #10
mateospeed
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Dunk,
I've followed your build. With that kind of spring rate, you'll be getting almost no body roll compared to me, and you're STILL using that much camber?? That's impressive that it takes so much. I suppose at that point, you're compensating for tire roll-over more than body roll?
Thanks for the great, quick responses! It's nice to see there's a reasonably strong group of folks who actually put their subies to use!
-Mateo
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:57 PM   #11
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Should i get some toe out in the rear to make the car a little more loose?
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:26 PM   #12
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Sounds like you have a good range of feedback here. Part of the alignment depends on the overall set-up and how much daily driving the car will do. My logic is that my car does not see lots of miles so I could run a more aggressive alignment but still with zero toe.

I am running -2.7F and -2.2R with TiC coil overs (camber plates F, adjustable lower control arms rear, 8k/7k), 22mm WL F/R ways on full stiff, spherical links f/r, some chassis bracing and 275/40R17 tires. I have now done three track days this spring at three different courses and feel with the tire pressure and dampening dialed in this set-up is nice and quick.

But change my tires and would I want different alignment setting and different dampening? Maybe. Suspension tuning all depends on how deep down the rabbit hole you want to go.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:49 PM   #13
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These cars need lots of neg camber and positive caster, I would run -3 at a minimum up front and -1.5 at the rear.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:36 AM   #14
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I try and run as much camber as I can up front, usually -3.9, -4.1 and around -2.5 + in the rear. I was running less in the rear before (the usual -1.5 everyone says) and the car tended to bounce in the rear on tight bumpy tracks, plus you can see on the tires that there was a good inch or more wide line on the inside of the rear tire that wasn't being used at all (looked brand new). This might work fine for autoX but doesn't make the car feel very composed on tracks. Plus it seems the overall grip of the car improved when I upped the rear camber.

24mm front and 27mm rear bar, various braces, bushings, etc RCE T2's 9k/7k 255/40/17 RS3's

I don't run any toe up front, run 0 to very slight toe out in the rear (like 1/32)

If you daily, -4 probably isn't the greatest idea...
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:40 AM   #15
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For any track car setup on a Subaru we keep the front to rear camber difference to no more than 1*. Meaning if running -4 in the front run no less than -3 in the back. We have found that this drastically increases grip and drops time out on track. We used to run much less rear camber on our setups, but not ant more.

On our race car we run -4.5* front and -4* rear.

Tony
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:37 AM   #16
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Tony, what are your spring rates and what sway bars 'settings' are you using? How much caster do you run? Any other top tips? :P

Right now I am running RCE sways and for a very smooth track it's great... but on any bumps it can get crazy, I am hoping to tone it down here soon...
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
For any track car setup on a Subaru we keep the front to rear camber difference to no more than 1*. Meaning if running -4 in the front run no less than -3 in the back. We have found that this drastically increases grip and drops time out on track. We used to run much less rear camber on our setups, but not ant more.

On our race car we run -4.5* front and -4* rear.

Tony
I was going to mention the TiC camber amounts but figured you'd chime in

Interesting about the split. I guess I have that going on already.
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:31 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
For any track car setup on a Subaru we keep the front to rear camber difference to no more than 1*. Meaning if running -4 in the front run no less than -3 in the back. We have found that this drastically increases grip and drops time out on track. We used to run much less rear camber on our setups, but not ant more.

On our race car we run -4.5* front and -4* rear.

Tony
I've a track-only car, but an '08 STi. Running the same tires as you. 18X10.5 Enkei Racing PF 01's with 38 ET wheels. It's lowered at least an inch.
I read what you say you run and wonder if I should run more camber. In the past I ran 17" wheels and 888's. I was planning on setting the fronts at 3.4 and the rears at 1.8. I think I may try .03~.04 degree toe-in on the rear (about 1/32") and at least the same toe-out on the front. What do you recommend for a GR?
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:33 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
For any track car setup on a Subaru we keep the front to rear camber difference to no more than 1*. Meaning if running -4 in the front run no less than -3 in the back. We have found that this drastically increases grip and drops time out on track. We used to run much less rear camber on our setups, but not ant more.

On our race car we run -4.5* front and -4* rear.

Tony
I'm curious, what do your tire temps look like coming off the track? And is this setup for time attack, wheel-to-wheel, or both? I've been running much less camber on my car, but temps are always pretty even across the tire. Wear has also been pretty even.
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