Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday April 17, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Water/Methanol Injection, Nitrous & Intercooler Cooling

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-06-2009, 08:10 PM   #701
Aquamist
NASIOC Manufacturer
 
Member#: 110029
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sussex, England
Vehicle:
2004 Citroen Picasso
Silver

Default

Anytime when you are ready.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Aquamist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2009, 12:00 PM   #702
stu
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 25768
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: CO springs
Vehicle:
35R bugeye
Slowbaru

Default

these were the exact same problems i had. it turned out my board was bad and when Richard sent a new one it worked perfect.
stu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2009, 03:19 PM   #703
kharris4
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46018
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
2003 wrx
silver(mostly stock)

Default

Did you have a dedicated power & ground for your board? I actually have my power tied in with 2 other gages and my EBC. My ground ties in with other stuff too.

And was the new board the same version?

Last edited by kharris4; 05-07-2009 at 03:27 PM.
kharris4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2009, 06:08 PM   #704
kharris4
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46018
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
2003 wrx
silver(mostly stock)

Default

UPDATE:

-I ran the ground from the j-box directly to the chasis.
-I ran the 12v directly to the cigarette lighter.

Car not running.
-enter "50", the pump kicks on, no flow for about 10 seconds, lite bouncing flow, full flow.
-the "B" kept going on and off all random like.
-after a few entrys of "0" and "50" it finally smoothed out at about full bars.

Time for a road test.
-it had some flow the first 1 or 2 times going over 10 lbs, the nothing... Not at 10 lbs, not at 14 lbs.

The back home idle test.
-enter "50", the pump doesn't kick on, enter"0".
-enter "50", the pump comes on but no flow, enter "0".
-enter "50", the pump comes on, few seconds, lite flow, seconds, better flow, seconds high flow.

Also, while at "50", the flow almost seemed to mimic my bumpy idle.

I'm going to take Aquamist up on that new j-box.

Done for the day.
kharris4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2009, 12:54 AM   #705
stu
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 25768
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: CO springs
Vehicle:
35R bugeye
Slowbaru

Default

it was very sperratic like yours i got a v8 j box and it works great.
stu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2009, 03:59 AM   #706
Aquamist
NASIOC Manufacturer
 
Member#: 110029
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sussex, England
Vehicle:
2004 Citroen Picasso
Silver

Default

stu,

It was not a bad board, it was a mis-match on the triggering level threshold input. The v8 board has a lower trigger detection input level compared to the v9. The v8 can be modified to match the hydra but it was easier to just send out the v9 to you.
Aquamist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2009, 09:32 AM   #707
stu
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 25768
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: CO springs
Vehicle:
35R bugeye
Slowbaru

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquamist View Post
stu,

It was not a bad board, it was a mis-match on the triggering level threshold input. The v8 board has a lower trigger detection input level compared to the v9. The v8 can be modified to match the hydra but it was easier to just send out the v9 to you.

I knew it was something like that but i couldent remember. It works great now.
stu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2009, 06:02 PM   #708
kharris4
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46018
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
2003 wrx
silver(mostly stock)

Default

I think it might be working now. I just installed my brand new v9 J-Box, made an attempt at adjusting the trigger screw, and took her for a spin. It registered flow consistantly when I rolled into the throttle.

Notes:
-I think that my Hydra o2 might be bad. It reads 25.5 about 99.9% of the time.

-With the car NOT idling, I adjusted the the trigger knob so that the gage would register about 1 bar at around 30-35 duty cycle. I'm not 100% sure if that's close to what I need or not but it seemed to work for now.

Is the pump supposed to kick on before the HS valve, or is it the other way around?

Thanks for the help so far... Element & Aquamist are pretty handy.
kharris4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2009, 03:44 PM   #709
stu
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 25768
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: CO springs
Vehicle:
35R bugeye
Slowbaru

Default

pump first then hsv
stu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2009, 10:56 AM   #710
Element Tuning
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 54918
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 673 WHP Element ProComp Engine
Default

That's not how you should adjust the gauge so here a quick how to:

Disconnect the jets and put the water line into a container. With the ignition on but the car not running "upload" for Nemesis 2.0-2.5 and "open from ECU" for 2.6 your map from the Hydra. Go to PWM Map 11, which is your water flow map which is tuned via duty cycle % based on Load vs. RPM over 1024 load cells. Clearly you'll see the Element Tuning base map in there.

Go to the highlighted load cell and type in 35% to start and increase as necessary to get two bars to light up. Adjust the "WL" on the gauge until the "B" just illuminates. Your low fault is now set.

To set the high fault increase the value in PWM Map 11 to 55% or higher if needed to so the second to last bar is not light up. Now adjust the "WH" on your gauge so the "B" light just turns off. Now your high fault is set.

In both cases the Hydra will switch to your regular fuel and spark map and also drop your boost (if you have 2.6 Hydra or you've wired your boost control solenoid to do so) when the last two flow bars are illuminated or the first two are not illuminated.

To set the sensitivity on the gauge (default is 12 o'clock) you will need to actually drive the car (with the jets hooked back up of course). Adjust the "SC" so that under full boost the flow bars on your Hydramist gauge are in the middle.

Thanks,
Phil
Element Tuning

Last edited by Element Tuning; 05-29-2009 at 09:31 AM.
Element Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 12:59 PM   #711
Tap
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 21893
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: RPV
Vehicle:
2002 WRX w/STi swap
PSM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
To set the high fault increase the value in PWM Map 11 to 55% or higher if needed to so the second to last bar is not light up. Now adjust the "WL" on your gauge so the "B" light just turns off. Now your high fault is set.
I am assuming this should be "WH"
Tap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2009, 05:42 PM   #712
Aquamist
NASIOC Manufacturer
 
Member#: 110029
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sussex, England
Vehicle:
2004 Citroen Picasso
Silver

Default

The water flow curve you have shown is one of the 12 maps within the micro. Depending on the system we incorporate the sensor into, we select different mapped file. A flow sensor in its natural state is not linear especially at low and high flow. The medium flow is very linear.

As we attempt to utilise one geometric design to cover a wide dynamic range and spiky line pressure (water hammer effect of the HSVs PWM modulation during operation). The easiest way to to null out the non-linear part at low and high flow. As you can see, the center portion of the sensor is very flat.

You will get a better flow curve if you add an inlet restrictor to the HSV, matching the flow of a given nozzle.
Aquamist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2009, 01:37 PM   #713
methaddict
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 159738
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Socal
Vehicle:
2004 WRB STi
Full Race TS, BW 8374 EFR

Default

I've upgraded my Hydra from 2.5 to 2.6 and is currently getting the circuit board upgrade. Will I have a problem using the vers 8 junction box since it has a lower trigger detection than the vers 9 j box?

Last edited by methaddict; 12-11-2010 at 12:32 AM.
methaddict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2009, 09:31 AM   #714
Element Tuning
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 54918
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 673 WHP Element ProComp Engine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tap View Post
I am assuming this should be "WH"
Yes original post corrected.
Element Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2009, 09:38 AM   #715
Element Tuning
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 54918
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 673 WHP Element ProComp Engine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by methaddict View Post
I've upgraded my Hydra from 2.5 to 2.6 and is currently getting the circuit board upgrade. Will I have a problem using the vers 8 junction box since it has a lower trigger detection than the vers 9 j box?
Not necessarily. The low trigger issue, in the grand scheme of how many units were sold, affected a very small percentage of units. It really boils down to the electronic tollerances of both the Hydra and the Hydramist (both favoring the wrong end of the tolerance scale).

For instance I never had an issue with any of the Hydramist versions on my STi and Hydras. If you don't have a problem with the pump turning on then there isn't a trigger detection problem

The Hydramist V9 and V10 have a very low trigger point for the Hydra. The V10 actually is slow low I usually adjust up the trigger turn on point a little.
Element Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 12:58 AM   #716
methaddict
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 159738
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Socal
Vehicle:
2004 WRB STi
Full Race TS, BW 8374 EFR

Default

What are differences/improvements between the v9 and v10 Hydramist kits?
methaddict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2009, 02:51 PM   #717
methaddict
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 159738
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Socal
Vehicle:
2004 WRB STi
Full Race TS, BW 8374 EFR

Default

I'm planning on installing the latest version of Hydramist in a direct port configuration. Do you have a manifold with the push loc connection that will go 1 into 4? I have one from Mcmaster Carr that I used with the Coolingmist kit I believe takes 1/4" tubing which converts to 6.35mm Will this work or I can use three 1 into 2 push loc manifolds you guys have?
methaddict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2009, 04:03 PM   #718
aqmist
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 137265
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NJ
Vehicle:
2004 SRT4
BLACK

Default

methaddict

You can use the 1 x 4 into 1 4mm connector (Aquamist 806-371)
OR
You can use 3 x 4mm Y quick connectors (Aquamist 806-361)

To use the Y quick connectors you would just do a main split with one and then another Y off of each of these to get 4 lines.
aqmist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2009, 04:19 PM   #719
Element Tuning
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 54918
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 673 WHP Element ProComp Engine
Default

Yes we have the 1 into 4 push lock connectors for direct port applications.

There aren't many similarities between the V9 and the V10 circuit boards. The V10 has different internal circuitry, different triggering range, and it also has a RJ45 jack for the display.

The new (in stock) Hydramist 2 uses the latest V10 circuit board, a new 160 psi pump, the new combined HSV and Flow Sensor, plus better wiring harnesses to simplify the installation. This combined with the Hydra EMS 2.6 gives you 1024 load cells for water/meth injection PWM mapping, automatic map switching, and automatic boost increase/decrease based on when the Hydramist is active.

Thanks,
Phil
Element Tuning
Element Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2009, 12:19 AM   #720
methaddict
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 159738
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Socal
Vehicle:
2004 WRB STi
Full Race TS, BW 8374 EFR

Default

Quote:
automatic boost increase/decrease based on when the Hydramist is active.
So using an external electronic boost controller like a dtec wouldn't be optimal for this feature?

Would it be best just to get a better boost solenoid like the Prodrive unit or what other one would do you suggest?
methaddict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2009, 08:52 AM   #721
sean18337
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 135588
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NY NJ PA
Vehicle:
2007 STI *SOLD*

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by methaddict View Post
So using an external electronic boost controller like a dtec wouldn't be optimal for this feature?

Would it be best just to get a better boost solenoid like the Prodrive unit or what other one would do you suggest?


I use a mac Valve to control boost from the hydra. When the hydramist is off my car runs 24psi and when my hydramist is active I run 28psi on a gt65 turbo. I was driving home the other day and ran out of meth and the hydramist automatically lowered the boost and switched to my pump gas map. Its basically the same valve Aem uses but costs a lot less. I will send you. Pm with the details
sean18337 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2009, 09:41 PM   #722
kharris4
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46018
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
2003 wrx
silver(mostly stock)

Default

I've had the Hydramist working since May. I ended up having to switch to a newer j-box for it to trigger correctly.

Yesterday it started malfunctioning again. Sometimes it'll work for a few seconds, sometimes minutes, or not at all. When it does work, the flow might be lacking.

I haven't changed or tampered with anything.

side notes:
-tank has fluid in it.
-float is free of obstructions (although the water level doesn't look like it comes on when I push it down. I'll have someone look for me this weekend.)
-the supply line has fluid in it all the way up to the HSV.
-the temperature has been getting colder around here the past week or so.
kharris4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 10:29 AM   #723
Element Tuning
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 54918
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 673 WHP Element ProComp Engine
Default

You might have a clogged or bad flow sensor. You can pull your line at before the jet, put the hose into a container, go to PWM Map 11 with the ignition on, type in 50 into the highlighted load cell which will turn on the Hydramist. Confirm you have flow out the hose and then check your display for flow bars.

If you have flow but low bars showing on the display you can try flushing the flow sensor by reversing it and doing what I described above. You can also check the filter prior to the pump to make sure it's not clogged. If it still doesn't show flow then you will have to buy another flow sensor.
Element Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 11:35 AM   #724
kharris4
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46018
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
2003 wrx
silver(mostly stock)

Default

Another thing that I noticed is that, even though the bars don't light up, the water injection light seems to get a little brighter when it's supposed to be flowing. Maybe I'm playing mind tricks on myself.

So Phil, it sounds like you're leaning towards maybe it's flowing and not sensing. I'll check it out if the rain holds out for a little while.

Also, I just want to confirm that the low water level light should come on if I push the float lever all the way down.
kharris4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 03:23 PM   #725
Aquamist
NASIOC Manufacturer
 
Member#: 110029
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sussex, England
Vehicle:
2004 Citroen Picasso
Silver

Default

The v8 model junction box will increase the brightness of the WI led after triggering. Can you tell me the serial number of the flow sensor so that I can check spares in case it cannot be cleaned.

If the flow sensor lever is in linline with the body, the low water level led will come on.
Aquamist is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Element Tuning Pro Comp Engine, Hydra EMS, Hydramist, GT75 Kit, 709 WHP, Q16/Methonal Element Tuning Proven Power Bragging 47 05-10-2010 11:17 AM
Element Tuning Pro Comp 2.5 STi Engine, Hydra EMS, GT75, Hydramist 602 WHP Element Tuning Proven Power Bragging 9 11-16-2009 06:43 PM
Aquamist HFS-5 system: Official Q&A... Aquamist Water/Methanol Injection, Nitrous & Intercooler Cooling 92 06-27-2009 05:40 AM
Andrewtech and Element GT52 Hydramist 110 Leaded ejh25 Proven Power Bragging 42 10-28-2007 02:40 PM
7/17-7/24 Phil From Element Tuning Time Schedule!!!! OFFICIAL. WorldOne NWIC Vendor Classifieds 18 07-19-2006 02:09 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.