2010 Legacy News, Rumors and Requests *Merged*

[rsholland]

Originally Posted by only1agam

the tribeca's dash IS hard plastic and yes i will agree with phoenix here the BL/BP legacy's interior is FAR superior to most any other subaru dash made to date... i will hold judgement until i sit in one.. but did everyone ever notice the side armrest in the legacy doors is not very comfortable?it sounds as though subaru put the right materials in the right places.. a good example is the civic.. it has a hard dash BUT the armrests, steering wheel, buttons, shifter, and e-brake have a nice soft squishy quality feel to them.. and that is what you tend to touch most.

No question about it. Subaru went to great lengths to make sure that areas in the interior that get "touched" frequently, are soft. Most people don't touch the dash that often, hence the hard plastic.

Still, when you compare it to other cars in the Legacy class—that do offer a padded dash—it just makes the Subaru feel cheap in comparison.

Bob

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[Fireball1]

Does the 2010 Legacy GT gain weight over the 2009 Legacy GT? If I'm correct, it seems to have gained nearly 200 pounds. This would offset the power gain, and make the car about as fast as the 2009 Legacy GT.

Now I'm not sure since Subaru claims the new Legacy is faster and more efficient than the current one. If anyone has an online brochure or offical Subaru data for the new Legacy GT, please post. Thanks.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by Fireball1

Does the 2010 Legacy GT gain weight over the 2009 Legacy GT? If I'm correct, it seems to have gained nearly 200 pounds. This would offset the power gain, and make the car about as fast as the 2009 Legacy GT.

Now I'm not sure since Subaru claims the new Legacy is faster and more efficient than the current one. If anyone has an online brochure or offical Subaru data for the new Legacy GT, please post. Thanks.

The 09 2.5i is 50lbs less than the 2010 2.5 CVT

[SoDealer]

Originally Posted by rsholland

Says you... The dash is hard and comes across as being CHEAP because of that. The Accord's dash is padded, as is the the Camry's, Mazda6's and Passat's. So should the new Legacy's dashboard.

As to the Tribeca's dash:

1) I've never been a huge fan of it, regardless of what awards it has won.

2) I did not know that dash was hard, but now that I do, I'm even less of a fan of it.

SoDealer. I usually agree with you, but not on this one. You're dead wrong here.

Bob

You didn't even know it had a hard dash. It really is not the end of the world. Everything else in the interior is uprated considerably over the BL.

[dusty]

Originally Posted by SoDealer

You didn't even know it had a hard dash. It really is not the end of the world. Everything else in the interior is uprated considerably over the BL.

Fully agreed. Too many people focus only on the looks and the negatives stuffs on the 2010. If you look at the whole picture, you will suddenly realize those negative stuffs are not even importnat anymore. Wait until you drive one yourself... Enough said.

[rsholland]

Originally Posted by SoDealer

You didn't even know it had a hard dash. It really is not the end of the world. Everything else in the interior is uprated considerably over the BL.

I was speaking of the Tribeca. I certainly knew the new Legacy had a hard dash. No, it's not the end of the world, just a disappointment, one of several...

Bob

[Snow Drift]

I'm just worried that the use of hard plastics will lead to more rattles. My WRX's have rattles that drive be crazy and its due to hard plastic hitting hard plastic.

[iambuddylee]

So, anyone know why the fuel economy numbers seem so low for the GT? 17/23 for a 6 speed manual? I read that they're estimating the same mileage for the GT and the 3.6, I thought turbos were supposed to be more efficient engines?

Thats the same/ slightly worse than a BMW 335xi (awd 300hp v6)... Why so low mileage numbers?

[Superorb]

Originally Posted by iambuddylee

So, anyone know why the fuel economy numbers seem so low for the GT? 17/23 for a 6 speed manual? I read that they're estimating the same mileage for the GT and the 3.6, I thought turbos were supposed to be more efficient engines?

Thats the same/ slightly worse than a BMW 335xi (awd 300hp v6)... Why so low mileage numbers?

The 335 is a twin turbo inline 6

The STi has similar numbers on the 6sp as well.

[iambuddylee]

Originally Posted by Superorb

The 335 is a twin turbo inline 6

The STi has similar numbers on the 6sp as well.

I forget, I always have to watch you guys and saying inline 6 vs v6. I grew up on american cars, and if it had 6 cylinders, it was a v6. ha.

I just checked the jp website, and it looks like the GT they're selling over there (if I did my conversions and translation from japanese to english correctly) and it came out to ~26mpg, but who know, the way they rate mileage on cars may be vastly different than here.

I guess another way to ask this would be, why would the 3.6 be estimated to get the same mileage as the 2.5? Seems odd to me.

[Calamity Jesus]

Originally Posted by iambuddylee

So, anyone know why the fuel economy numbers seem so low for the GT? 17/23 for a 6 speed manual? I read that they're estimating the same mileage for the GT and the 3.6, I thought turbos were supposed to be more efficient engines?

Thats the same/ slightly worse than a BMW 335xi (awd 300hp v6)... Why so low mileage numbers?

It probably has something to do with it having the frontal area of a tool shed.

[SoDealer]

Originally Posted by rsholland

I was speaking of the Tribeca. I certainly knew the new Legacy had a hard dash. No, it's not the end of the world, just a disappointment, one of several...

Bob

I was referring to the Tribeca. The 2010 Legacy is a lot less plasticky than the Tribeca and looks it as well.

[eps105]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

I'm just worried that the use of hard plastics will lead to more rattles. My WRX's have rattles that drive be crazy and its due to hard plastic hitting hard plastic.

My '03 Forester has a (nicely textured) hard plastic dashboard and console, and seven years/85,000 miles later it doesn't have one single squeak or rattle.

Soft-touch dashboards are still hard plastic on the bottom, where they contact other surfaces.

Squeaks and rattles are a factor of engineering robustness with regard to body rigidity and assembly robustness (like strategically placed adhesive-backed felt), not the softness of the top-side of the material.

[S14guy]

Originally Posted by rsholland

I was speaking of the Tribeca. I certainly knew the new Legacy had a hard dash. No, it's not the end of the world, just a disappointment, one of several...

Bob

Let's review the disappointments:

4-5" more rear leg room
.29 co-efficient of drag
a smaller better spooling turbo that hits peak boost at 2000rpm
only a 49lb weight gain
available blue tooth stereo integration and voice command controls
larger sunroof
18" wheels
265HP

Gosh Subaru did a horrid job.








Oh wait its RSHOLLAND speaking. Shoulda known.
Hey do you ever like any cars ?

[Sub!eDr!ver]

I don't think it's a smaller turbo - it's the location that makes it spool quicker.

[S14guy]

Originally Posted by Sub!eDr!ver

I don't think it's a smaller turbo - it's the location that makes it spool quicker.

Its is not the WRX turbo, it is a WRX front half with a slightly smaller back half. It pushes 18psi in the new Legacy GT.

I have the dyno chart of it from SoA, and have seen the car and turbo in person.

I will not post the dyno as SoA told me not to if I like my job...

Mike

[Jarvis]

Originally Posted by iambuddylee

I forget, I always have to watch you guys and saying inline 6 vs v6. I grew up on american cars, and if it had 6 cylinders, it was a v6. ha.

Except for the 4.0 liter straight 6 in the Jeep Wrangler, and many others...

[Sub!eDr!ver]

Originally Posted by Jarvis

Except for the 4.0 liter straight 6 in the Jeep Wrangler, and many others...

... and the good old Dodge slant 6...

I think almost all American engines were inline before the V-engines came around. Even the early American cars had straight-8 engines.

[Sub!eDr!ver]

Originally Posted by S14guy

Its is not the WRX turbo, it is a WRX front half with a slightly smaller back half. It pushes 18psi in the new Legacy GT.

I have the dyno chart of it from SoA, and have seen the car and turbo in person.

I will not post the dyno as SoA told me not to if I like my job...

Mike

Thanks for the info. Didn't know that. So you're saying the new Legacy's turbo back half is different from the '09 WRX's turbo back half?

Slightly quicker spool, but lower ultimate potential, in a heavier car. Not what I was hoping to hear. Well I suppose that makes it a little more driveable during daily use.

[rsholland]

Originally Posted by S14guy

Let's review the disappointments:

4-5" more rear leg room
.29 co-efficient of drag
a smaller better spooling turbo that hits peak boost at 2000rpm
only a 49lb weight gain
available blue tooth stereo integration and voice command controls
larger sunroof
18" wheels
265HP

Gosh Subaru did a horrid job.








Oh wait its RSHOLLAND speaking. Shoulda known.
Hey do you ever like any cars ?

You obviously have not been following anything I've said about this car. I'm one of the few here who has consistently said good things about this new Legacy and Outback. I've also made a point of what I don't like about it, the hard dashboard and non-folding mirrors being two items—and those are items I really don't like.

Bob

[keepclam]

Larger sunroof? Hadn't heard that... that must be Legacy only, since Outback's snazzy dual-pane roof shrunk - disappointingly - into a standard roof.

[soldonsubie]

Originally Posted by iambuddylee

So, anyone know why the fuel economy numbers seem so low for the GT? 17/23 for a 6 speed manual? I read that they're estimating the same mileage for the GT and the 3.6, I thought turbos were supposed to be more efficient engines?

Thats the same/ slightly worse than a BMW 335xi (awd 300hp v6)... Why so low mileage numbers?

Gearing.

The 10 LGT will weigh 300 + lbs less than the more powerful 335xi which also has a larger engine.

The LGT will almost definitely have short gearing and a high final drive ratio. That will equal better acceleration but the downside is higher revs at speed and (much) more gas consumption. The 335xi 6MT is rated at 16/25 vs. the LGT’s 17/23.

A more striking comparison is the MT a4, 2.0t quattro. Sure it has a smaller engine but the torge #'s are the same as the new LGT. It weighs MORE than the LGT at 3600 lbs +, goes 0-60 in 6.5 seconds (mfgr). But epa is 22/30! It utilizes longer gearing including TWO (5th and 6th) overdrive gears.

[Syndicate]

Originally Posted by soldonsubie

A more striking comparison is the MT a4, 2.0t quattro. Sure it has a smaller engine but the torque #'s are the same as the new LGT. It weighs MORE than the LGT at 3600 lbs +, goes 0-60 in 6.5 seconds (mfgr). But epa is 22/30! It utilizes longer gearing including TWO (5th and 6th) overdrive gears.

...not only longer gearing but a much smaller motor w/direct injection. The 4-cyl turbo Audi/VW cars (even more so w/the new 2.0T models) from what I've seen (in my daily driving) are easily capable of 30mpg even when playing w/the cars moderately.

[merlot]

Who gives a crap about a stupid, hard dash?! I mean, who gets in their car every morning and feels the damn dash? Effen ridiculous that this stupid complaint is still going on. Some of you people are so damn critical.


I'll give you the folding mirrors though, that commission was stupid the more I think about it.

[Hondaslayer]

Originally Posted by MSD

Who gives a crap about a stupid, hard dash?! I mean, who gets in their car every morning and feels the damn dash? Effen ridiculous that this stupid complaint is still going on. Some of you people are so damn critical.


I'll give you the folding mirrors though, that commission was stupid the more I think about it.

When was the last time you folded your mirrors? Most people don't even know that the mirrors fold. Eliminate that big noise producing space by deleting a feature that most people do not use / even know about and all you have is a bunch of "enthusiasts" whining about something that barely even affects them.