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Old 05-27-2009, 12:15 PM   #26
charliew
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The guys at outfront motorsports have been hotrodding subies forever and they sell shortened pans that are just cut off for ground clearance. They say to run the oil higher in the pan no problems with sand buggies and street cars don't do near the stuff buggies do. Also I never had a problem jacking the car up more on one side to completely drain the oil if thats what it takes. For a bigger oil filter you can use a honda s2000 filter, it is a lot bigger. When my sons sti was stock it would need oil added at about 2500 miles, mobil 1 5w30. On changes I wanted to put the whole 5qts in but he didn't want to do that. So it would need oil sooner.
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Old 05-27-2009, 12:23 PM   #27
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Can't find it right now, but I've seen it before in this manual, it speaks to engine replacement and shows the total capacity is 5 quarts.

If you've ever torn down one of these EJ motors you'll find the other 3/4 quarts.
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Old 05-27-2009, 12:32 PM   #28
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<----spent an hour with the parts cleaner machine getting the rod bearing shards out of my oil pan.
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Old 05-27-2009, 01:12 PM   #29
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I had a Master Lube Preoiler (2 quart capacity) put on my car and just seemed to remember when I was checking the oil level that it was 4.8 US qts. I just looked in the owners manual capacity and also under maintainence.

I only put a picture of a turbo bolt on the site and got a official warning about CLASSIFIED material. That big picture above is scary. I would be given lethal injection by "THEM". You knowwho "THEY" are............................
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Old 05-27-2009, 02:05 PM   #30
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Is that right? a turbo bolt? ...as in the stud that threads into the exhaust housing? or rather was it the banjo bolt? haha they must have been giving you a hard time?
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:46 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJavaPearl04 View Post
Is that right? a turbo bolt? ...as in the stud that threads into the exhaust housing? or rather was it the banjo bolt? haha they must have been giving you a hard time?
Yeah it was a banjo bolt BUT it was a top secret bolt "CLASSIFIED" with both standard AND metric specifications. Nobody else is able to read these messages except you and I? Correct?
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:17 AM   #32
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no everyone can. I wouldn't worry about it. Perhaps at the time it might have been an issue if a vendor was selling them or something. I'm just a bit perturbed at the matter though, Moving right along though....
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Old 07-10-2009, 01:24 PM   #33
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you guys have any photos of the actual pans so we can compare?
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Old 07-10-2009, 02:59 PM   #34
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I've got every pan here. Yes, every one. What pictures do you want specifically, and I'll see what I can get for you.
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Old 07-10-2009, 03:27 PM   #35
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I'm most interested in seeing the WRX (2004) vs the STI (2006)
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Old 07-10-2009, 05:32 PM   #36
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OK guys I could go on for pages and pages on why the STi pans are better, but I'll try to keep the rambling to a minimum.

Here are the 3 pans. OK, 4 pans, had to give myself a shameless plug

Obviously the WRX pan is flat bottomed and not as deep, vs the STi pans that form a closer fitting 'tub around the pickup. This gives the oil less pleces to slosh around to, and keeps the oil level higher on the pickup during operation.

Top Left: Killer B Motorsport Oil Pan

Top Right: OEM 2002-2005 EJ20 WRX Oil Pan Subaru number 11109AA053

Bottom Right: OEM 06+ EJ25 Impreza WRX/STi (STi, Legacy GT & Forester XT) Subaru number 11109AA151

Bottom Left: OEM 04-05 EJ25 Impreza STi (Legacy GT & Forester XT) Subaru number 11109AA131





As most of us know, the STi pan can be used mith many more header setups do to the kicked-in feature.





The dipstick location and angle, shape, length etc. is the same on all pans. This is the little tube ON the pan. The only difference is the length of the tube that the dipstick sits in. It's different on the EJ20 vs EJ25. That's why if you just change the dipstick when swapping to an STi pan your readings are off. I'm not entirely certain if the brackets on the dipstick tubes are the same (I'd think they would be), but swapping dipstick AND pan should give proper readings.





On to the baffling... You can see the WRX baffles have fewer passages and 2 levels of baffles. The STi pan has a much more clear flow path. Keep in mind one of the achilies to the Suby lubrication system isn't oil control IN the pan, it's GETTIN the oil to the pan quickly as it flows back from the heads. It doesn't do you much good to have good oil control in the bottom of the pan if the oil isn't getting there.

A lot of the perimiter of the WRX top baffle is sealed to the sides. On the STi pan almost the whole perimiter of the top baffle has a flow through gap. Also tough to see in this picture is that the lip around the baffles (upper and lower) pickup hole is curled up. This forces the oil to one of the hols in the baffle instead of going right down the middle.





Here's another shot of the EJ20 double level baffle. It's tough to tell by this picture but it's mostly sealed around the edges. The flow through path takes many direction. I'd be willing to bet, because most of the sides are sealed on the lower level, that under hard accel, decel, & corners that you can pool oil in some locations between the 2 baffles.





In case anyone cares, the weights go something like this: EJ20-heaviest, 04-05 EJ25 next, 06+ EJ25 a little lighter and the killer B Oil pan a little lighter than the 06+. This picture shows the 04-05 & 06+ EJ25 pans. IMO the 06+ is a better choice, because it leaves half as much oil in the pan when you do an oil change, it's lighter, and the baffling is slightly better (although I'm probably splitting hairs here). Just an FYI on the 04-05 pan there is 1/4 quart that doesn't come out during an oil change and a baffle around the inside of the drain plug so you can't pump it out.



Something else to note is that the baffle tray (sheetmetal piece that bolts to the bottom fo the block) should also be changed when doing an oil pan swap. They are cheap, and specifically designed to work with each pan.



Hope this helps

Last edited by KillerBMotorsport; 08-19-2009 at 08:25 PM.
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:40 AM   #37
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This is the first I've heard the 06+ EJ25 pan is different than the 04/05. Is it part 11109AA131?
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Old 07-11-2009, 11:19 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixxer1K View Post
This is the first I've heard the 06+ EJ25 pan is different than the 04/05. Is it part 11109AA131?
11109AA131 is for the 04-05 STi. It's also used on early Legacy GT and Forester XT models too, since it's the same short block.

11109AA151 is for 06+ EJ25s (STi, Legacy GT & Forester XT).

From what I've seen the 06+ pan is a wee bit deeper (1/8" at best), and there are VERY slight diferences as stated above.

Something else to note is that the baffle tray (sheetmetal piece that bolts to the bottom fo the block) should also be changed when doing an oil pan swap. They are cheap, and specifically designed to work with each pan.
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Old 07-12-2009, 02:25 PM   #39
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KillerB, question for you. Being a wrx owner, with a fully built motor etc, should I worry about my wrx oil pickup? Or did they not have issues of cracking like the 06 stis? If so, do you sell a oil pickup for the wrx pan?

Also, it seems you're saying the sti pan is better for oiling, is that correct?
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Old 07-12-2009, 03:47 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Money View Post
KillerB, question for you. Being a wrx owner, with a fully built motor etc, should I worry about my wrx oil pickup? Or did they not have issues of cracking like the 06 stis? If so, do you sell a oil pickup for the wrx pan?

Also, it seems you're saying the sti pan is better for oiling, is that correct?
From the data I've collected, there have been failures with Subaru pickups since 1996. It became more evident to us Subaru owners when the WRX was released and forums like this took off with a younger demographic buying up WRXs and the STi. So there are failures on the EJ20s (older WRXs) the older STi (04-05), and the worst has been the 06+ WRX AND Sti pickups.

These parts leave the factory with a manufacturing process defect, so if you search around enough you'll find both stock and modified cars are affected. Engine vibration plays a minimal role in these failures.

I don't have any aftermarket EJ20 pickups just yet. And the STi pan IS a better pan.
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Old 07-12-2009, 08:28 PM   #41
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How long until you DO make a wrx pan oil pickup? And just why is the sti pan better?
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Old 07-12-2009, 09:00 PM   #42
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Read post #36
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Old 07-12-2009, 09:08 PM   #43
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It's difficult to make an ultimate pickup because of the way the older EJ20 upper baffle really crowds the pickup. I'm making some "Rugedized" units for a couple of Cosworth applications, since they provide an OEM pickup with thier reworked OEM pan. And we all know by now how the OEM pickups fail.

You can find info on the Rugedized pickups HERE.

Read post 36, the one with all the pictures in it, to see why the STi pan is better.
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:18 PM   #44
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thread has every thing except the part numbers for the 06+
pan/pickup/baffle tray and dipstick

learned something new today ..
different pan, different dip stick ..


i would add as a side note the the oil pans are slightly different on the older ej20s and there are a variety of different pans for N/A applications too
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Old 07-13-2009, 12:46 PM   #45
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"The dipstick location and angle, shape, length etc. is the same on all pans. "

Jaxx where are you getting the info about the dipstick being different?
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Old 07-13-2009, 01:26 PM   #46
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How about the Subaru Part numbers:

04-05 EJ25 Dipstick: 11140AA120

06-07 EJ25 Dipstick: 11140AA150

WRX EJ20 Dipstick: 11140AA046

If you do a search you'll find a post somewhere on here (or another forum?) where there's pictures of all the dipsticks and gude tubes. There are differences.

On the pans though, the tubes (the part welded to the pans) are the same.

Last edited by KillerBMotorsport; 07-13-2009 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:06 PM   #47
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Interesting comparisons here. Much of this however is just theoretical comparisons and in the real world it's going to be tough to tell which one of the OEM pans is best.
Our "Unlimited" class 06 STi has been working well with the OEM oil pan but we also had an older 04 setup on our other car that worked perfectly also. We did notice the 06 oil pickup tube was too short and we either used one from the 04 or we just ordered another 06 pickup and it was much better.

I'm going to test the 2.0 WRX pan, pickup, etc on my current engine and I think it's going to work better than the 06 STi pan. Why? On an engine that belches out more than 600 whp it won't let you run the oil level at the full mark. It just pushes that oil out through the crankcase breathers and settles between the low and high mark on the dip stick. I would say it needs to be 1/4-1/2 quart lower than full. At this level we have never had an oil starvation issue. Now the difference between this ideal level and the low mark is about 1/2 quart and we have seen oil starvation occur at this level. If you do the math this works out to be about a 1/2 quart safety margin . I think the 2.0 WRX oil pan with the extra 1 quart capacity is going to allow us to run the oil level so that we'll have about 1/2 quart more oil in reserve allowing a full quart buffer before oil starvation occurs.

This is my theory at least in regards to the OEM pans. I have no proof it will work better, I'm just hopeful it will be. I'm sure there are better aftermarket designs and I may run one some day.

Thanks,
Phil
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Old 07-13-2009, 08:23 PM   #48
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I've got the best of both worlds right here for you (pickup & pan)....



The information I've collected is mostly from track dedicated cars and engine builders that I consult with. Lots of the guys I know that track also run the oil level high to compensate for the increased consumption seen during a race. 5 - 5 1/4 quarts, which is almost a quart over the 'full' mark (on the EJ25 pans). This is especially important on circuits with aggressive corners that also crest a hill. I can't tell you squat about mega hp drag cars because that's just not my world. I do work with a team in Germany that runs the Nurburgring weekly, and a couple of the guys on the team run older 2.0 cars and they've switched to the EJ25 pans (long ago) because of oiling issues. Now this is a big track with a B to G (about 1/3 of the track) is quick at 8 minutes. During a single race on a fresh motor they consume 1 to 1 1/2 quarts on average. By the end of the race (even with the STi pan, although to a much less extent), they see pressure drops on the hill crested corners.

Your correct on the 06+ pickups, on average they are 1/2" shorter than the 04-05 pickup and the tolerances are horrible (the 06+ pans are also a wee bit deeper too)! Beware, the 04-05 length tolerances are just as bad an are know to occasionally interfere and rub on the bottom of the pan, VERY bad!

With all this said, in a street car, with even moderate modifications, I think any pan will do.
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Old 07-13-2009, 11:21 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
IYour correct on the 06+ pickups, on average they are 1/2" shorter than the 04-05 pickup and the tolerances are horrible (the 06+ pans are also a wee bit deeper too)! Beware, the 04-05 length tolerances are just as bad an are know to occasionally interfere and rub on the bottom of the pan, VERY bad!

With all this said, in a street car, with even moderate modifications, I think any pan will do.
so then run a '04-'05 pick up on an '06 pan!!!!
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Old 07-13-2009, 11:35 PM   #50
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If you care about your motor not blowing up from a broken OEM pickup, and ESPECIALLY if you have money invested in a built motor, get this pickup!! It's got .31 clearance on the OEM pan (the sweet spot), with height tolerances much better than the OEM pickups, and will NEVER break!




and I think the guy who makes them is having a group buy right now

If memory serves me correctly, I once tried and 04-05 pickup with an 06+ pan and it didn't work. I seem to remember the kick-in feature (where all the aftermarket headers crowd the pan) was just different enough to interfere. The pan depth of the 04-05 and 06+ is only a tiny bit. The 06+ is about .06" deeper. With the tolerances of the pans and pickups you might as well run an 04-05 pan and pickup.

And in case anyone cares the 06+ pickup is a hair over 5/8" from the bottom of the pan.

Last edited by KillerBMotorsport; 07-14-2009 at 12:03 AM.
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