Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday July 10, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Service & Maintenance

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-10-2009, 11:56 PM   #1
JamesWilson2
ForumWars Winner!
 
Member#: 196948
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Kyle, TX
Vehicle:
2003 Forester
Silver

Question Head Gasket Job Rate/Cost?

I was quoted at my local dealership ~$1500 to do the head gaskets on my 2.5 NA (SOHC) including parts & labor, and they said they send the heads off for machining. They would completely R&R the engine for this, and do the timing belt for cost of parts as it is off anyway.

I was told also that for warranty work (like low-mileage HG failures), they can do it quickly with the engine still on the car and do not do any machine work...I have heard anywhere from $500 to $1000 for this.

Any one have either one done at the dealer, and what was the cost and average turnaround time? Cost at an Independent shop?

My car was sideswiped by a Semi on Thursday, damage not too terrible, and I am debating on keeping it or not, and at 199525 miles I may just do a HG job along with timing belt, but need to look at cost depending on how much they give me for repairs and whether they declare a Total Loss or not.

Thanks!
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
JamesWilson2 is offline  
Old 08-11-2009, 12:08 AM   #2
2001stook
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 44366
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: CT
Vehicle:
'04 STi
JBP

Default

I would not spend that kind of money on a car with that many miles that has significant accident damage that also requires repair.
2001stook is offline  
Old 08-11-2009, 12:28 AM   #3
JamesWilson2
ForumWars Winner!
 
Member#: 196948
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Kyle, TX
Vehicle:
2003 Forester
Silver

Default

Not significant damage...estimate using all SOA parts & high labor was $1800.....actual damage is a wheel cover, some scuffs on the side mirror and fender, and a missing mud flap and fender liner. You can hardly tell. They may Total it because of the repair cost though. I love this car, and it's hard to find a Wagon with a 5-speed. I'd like to keep the car if I can.
JamesWilson2 is offline  
Old 08-11-2009, 10:07 AM   #4
09rexwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 216135
Join Date: Jul 2009
Vehicle:
2011 Civic SI
STX #66, 06 S2000 STR 180

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWilson2 View Post
Not significant damage...estimate using all SOA parts & high labor was $1800.....actual damage is a wheel cover, some scuffs on the side mirror and fender, and a missing mud flap and fender liner. You can hardly tell. They may Total it because of the repair cost though. I love this car, and it's hard to find a Wagon with a 5-speed. I'd like to keep the car if I can.
I tell all my friends, family, coworkers and associates that if you can get a car totaled after an accident, then try to as hard are you can. I have been in many many cars that had even modest accidents (rear ended resulting in a new rear bumper, muffler and trunk lid) and the car never drives or feels the same. My moms 06 CRV feels weird and has a few new buzzes and rattles and the exhaust doesn't hang right. This is after a rear ending where Liberty Mutual paid almost $5k to repair it. I told her to make them total it but she didn't try...now she is regretting it.
09rexwagon is offline  
Old 08-11-2009, 02:11 PM   #5
Uncle Scotty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK Houston
we have an Uncle

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 09rexwagon View Post
I tell all my friends, family, coworkers and associates that if you can get a car totaled after an accident, then try to as hard are you can. I have been in many many cars that had even modest accidents (rear ended resulting in a new rear bumper, muffler and trunk lid) and the car never drives or feels the same. My moms 06 CRV feels weird and has a few new buzzes and rattles and the exhaust doesn't hang right. This is after a rear ending where Liberty Mutual paid almost $5k to repair it. I told her to make them total it but she didn't try...now she is regretting it.


dear god

where DO these guys COME from
Uncle Scotty is offline  
Old 08-11-2009, 03:34 PM   #6
09rexwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 216135
Join Date: Jul 2009
Vehicle:
2011 Civic SI
STX #66, 06 S2000 STR 180

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post


dear god

where DO these guys COME from
Have you ever had a car that was in a relatively significant accident that was 'fixed' via an insurance claim that you were 100% (not 95%, not 98%) satisfied after the repairs were performed. I'm going to answer the question for you....either A) you have never been in a bad enough accident or B) no.

When an insurance company pays a shop to fix a car, you are in the middle and have very little clout to make sure it is done right. If you allow it to get fixed, yes, you may think that if you are dissatisfied, its under warranty but then the shop tells you to contact the insurance company. The insurance company tells you that the claim is close and the monies have been disbursed. Then you start raising hell with the shop and they tell you that they did what they could do with the money that the insurance company sent them and if you want that b-pillar molding to stop rattling then you would have had to have the insurance company send more money from the get go. It turns into such a head ache, that most people give up and live with it. I'm more proactive than that if I were to get into an accident that resulted in myself being in this situation, which hasn't happened. But in every case I have known of where the damage was bordering totaling or not totaling, the person involved was not satisfied with the repairs.

I was just voicing my knowledge based on numerous situations that I personally know of, so someone (the OP) is aware of a small subset of people in this same situation and how their situation materializes.
09rexwagon is offline  
Old 08-11-2009, 05:06 PM   #7
Uncle Scotty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK Houston
we have an Uncle

Default

to the OP...sell the car
Uncle Scotty is offline  
Old 08-11-2009, 05:07 PM   #8
Uncle Scotty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK Houston
we have an Uncle

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 09rexwagon View Post
Have you ever had a car that was in a relatively significant accident that was 'fixed' via an insurance claim that you were 100% (not 95%, not 98%) satisfied after the repairs were performed. I'm going to answer the question for you....either A) you have never been in a bad enough accident or B) no.

When an insurance company pays a shop to fix a car, you are in the middle and have very little clout to make sure it is done right. If you allow it to get fixed, yes, you may think that if you are dissatisfied, its under warranty but then the shop tells you to contact the insurance company. The insurance company tells you that the claim is close and the monies have been disbursed. Then you start raising hell with the shop and they tell you that they did what they could do with the money that the insurance company sent them and if you want that b-pillar molding to stop rattling then you would have had to have the insurance company send more money from the get go. It turns into such a head ache, that most people give up and live with it. I'm more proactive than that if I were to get into an accident that resulted in myself being in this situation, which hasn't happened. But in every case I have known of where the damage was bordering totaling or not totaling, the person involved was not satisfied with the repairs.

I was just voicing my knowledge based on numerous situations that I personally know of, so someone (the OP) is aware of a small subset of people in this same situation and how their situation materializes.


d00000000000d......you are just not in reality

and 'borderline totaled' is totaled

a bent ****ing fender is just that

a competent person can take 5 total wrecks and make 2 cars outa them that you would never be able to tell they were wrecked
Uncle Scotty is offline  
Old 08-11-2009, 08:20 PM   #9
JamesWilson2
ForumWars Winner!
 
Member#: 196948
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Kyle, TX
Vehicle:
2003 Forester
Silver

Default

The fender is not even dented, it just has huge tire rubs on it. The car is dark blue, if I posted a picture (I did in the TXIC forum), you can't even tell it was hit other than more tire rub on the wheel cover.

Anyone have info on the HG rates?
JamesWilson2 is offline  
Old 08-11-2009, 08:40 PM   #10
09rexwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 216135
Join Date: Jul 2009
Vehicle:
2011 Civic SI
STX #66, 06 S2000 STR 180

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
d00000000000d......you are just not in reality

and 'borderline totaled' is totaled

a bent ****ing fender is just that

a competent person can take 5 total wrecks and make 2 cars outa them that you would never be able to tell they were wrecked
You mention 'reality' but you made a comment that is purely concept/theory:

"a competent person can take 5 total wrecks and make 2 cars outa them that you would never be able to tell they were wrecked"

This is true in theory but not true in reality and there is significant empirical evidence to back up said claim.

The point about a bent fender is simply a bent fender doesn't account for the impulse force applied to every sprung item of mass on the vehicle. This will expose itself as trim buzzes and rattles and suspension clunks and pops 5k, 10k, 15k miles down the road.
09rexwagon is offline  
Old 08-11-2009, 08:42 PM   #11
09rexwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 216135
Join Date: Jul 2009
Vehicle:
2011 Civic SI
STX #66, 06 S2000 STR 180

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWilson2 View Post
The fender is not even dented, it just has huge tire rubs on it. The car is dark blue, if I posted a picture (I did in the TXIC forum), you can't even tell it was hit other than more tire rub on the wheel cover.

Anyone have info on the HG rates?
In reference to your original question, if the heads are truely getting machined and rebuilt (what does R&R entail for this case) plus HGs and timing belt job (tensioners and water pump?), 1800 doesn't seem completely out of line.
09rexwagon is offline  
Old 08-11-2009, 09:37 PM   #12
ciper
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 15543
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: san francisco, ca
Vehicle:
90BJ Legacy LS ABS
AWD 946 Rio Red Jpn built

Default

Tell me more about why you need your headgaskets done. The amount of time and parts needed can vary significantly. It could be as simple as a one headgasket needing replaced to requiring new rings/bearings and the cylinder bored out for larger pistons because it was sucking water into the combustion chamber and overheated too badly.

You shouldnt have mentioned the body damage crap because Nastycock is full of nitpickers.
ciper is offline  
Old 08-11-2009, 09:43 PM   #13
FNR32
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 84147
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: South East
Vehicle:
03 WRX
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 09rexwagon View Post
I tell all my friends, family, coworkers and associates that if you can get a car totaled after an accident, then try to as hard are you can. I have been in many many cars that had even modest accidents (rear ended resulting in a new rear bumper, muffler and trunk lid) and the car never drives or feels the same. My moms 06 CRV feels weird and has a few new buzzes and rattles and the exhaust doesn't hang right. This is after a rear ending where Liberty Mutual paid almost $5k to repair it. I told her to make them total it but she didn't try...now she is regretting it.
I am still wondering how you "make" an insurance company declare a car a total. There is a 70-75% threshold industry wide. Either it totals or it wont.
FNR32 is offline  
Old 08-11-2009, 09:52 PM   #14
09rexwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 216135
Join Date: Jul 2009
Vehicle:
2011 Civic SI
STX #66, 06 S2000 STR 180

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FNR32 View Post
I am still wondering how you "make" an insurance company declare a car a total. There is a 70-75% threshold industry wide. Either it totals or it wont.
It was a poor choice of words. What I meant by 'make' was convincing the insurance company that the car is worth less than what they think it is worth or that the damage is going to be more costly due to a, b, and c that the body/repair shop did not take into account in their estimate.
09rexwagon is offline  
Old 08-11-2009, 10:05 PM   #15
JamesWilson2
ForumWars Winner!
 
Member#: 196948
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Kyle, TX
Vehicle:
2003 Forester
Silver

Default

It's a '00 and is known for external HG weeps, mine started weeping (scent of coolant on the header) at about 185K miles, but no coolant loss or internal mixing, no overheating, and no phosphorous/sodium in the oil analysis. BUT if I want to keep the car for a long time, I was planning on HG around 200K anyway, and this may be a way to (partially) fund it before I have to via catastrophic failure.

I always thought I might do a junkyard Turbo setup and go with lower CR pistons if I ever had to take the motor apart...shrug....
JamesWilson2 is offline  
Old 08-12-2009, 12:20 PM   #16
ciper
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 15543
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: san francisco, ca
Vehicle:
90BJ Legacy LS ABS
AWD 946 Rio Red Jpn built

Default

The standard labor time for both headgaskets is 9 hours...

Most mechanics can do it faster and if you replace everything you should I'd guess it would cost closer to 1300. You said 500-1000 so should I assume you are only going to do one? If you are doing it as "preventative maintenance" then I'd strongly suggest you replace both headgaskets, both crank/rod seals, the tensioner and all pulleys, water pump, valve cover gaskets, intake/exhaust gaskets etc

If you are considering to do lower compression pistons then you should grab some new bearings and rings while you are at it.
ciper is offline  
Old 08-12-2009, 12:56 PM   #17
carnz-pj-410
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 110994
Join Date: Mar 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Atlantic
Vehicle:
1993 Legacy Turbo

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ciper View Post
The standard labor time for both headgaskets is 9 hours...
Seems really low, maybe its your area we get 16 hours to do headgaskets, and I know of 2 dealers in VA that get 20...
carnz-pj-410 is offline  
Old 08-12-2009, 03:25 PM   #18
K Dub
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 210438
Join Date: May 2009
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Come at me, bro
Vehicle:
2012 Jeep
Wrangler Rubicon 4D

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post


dear god

where DO these guys COME from

Actually, he is pretty much right from my experiences.

The paint almost never matches exactly, the car is never the same, and the resale takes a huge hit.

My family has been through this on several vehicles over the last 30 years and all had to be dumped after several visits back to the dealer's collision center or wherever the car was repaired still leading to a sub par repair. $10K of damage on a $30K vehicle is nowhere near totalled but will almost always leave you with a car that has serious issues down the road.

There is one place around here (non dealer) that can get the paint perfect, but if the car was hit hard it will never be the same again.

Edit: Now if it's just a dented fender as you later say, then as long as you have a GREAT paint guy you will be OK.

Last edited by K Dub; 08-12-2009 at 03:32 PM.
K Dub is online now  
Old 08-12-2009, 05:53 PM   #19
AliBenn
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 487
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Greatwood/Sgrlnd
Vehicle:
1998 /2005 STunIcorn
Acadia Green RS-T

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FNR32 View Post
I am still wondering how you "make" an insurance company declare a car a total. There is a 70-75% threshold industry wide. Either it totals or it wont.
ding ding we have a winner!



09rex===> sounds like your bodyshops are just plain bad in your area
$5k is nothing for a CRV estimate(not to minimize you mom's axx)

if the bodyshop didnt fix it right, dont bitch about the insurance comapany,
bitch about the shop that did not rpr the damage correctly. or did not give proper customer service to your family.


insurance companies PAY for the damage to be REPAIRED
not
REPAIR the DAMAGE caused by they're at fault insured

signed
insurance dmg appraiser for 12years
AliBenn is offline  
Old 08-12-2009, 07:45 PM   #20
ciper
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 15543
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: san francisco, ca
Vehicle:
90BJ Legacy LS ABS
AWD 946 Rio Red Jpn built

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carnz-pj-410 View Post
Seems really low, maybe its your area we get 16 hours to do headgaskets, and I know of 2 dealers in VA that get 20...
I don't know how to say this without sounding rude but that is way too much, especially for warranty work which is often less than the standard labor.

My times are from Mitchel OnDemand which is the defacto standard. It is the most popular (by far) software for estimations,,, among other things.

ciper is offline  
Old 08-12-2009, 08:04 PM   #21
09rexwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 216135
Join Date: Jul 2009
Vehicle:
2011 Civic SI
STX #66, 06 S2000 STR 180

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliBenn View Post
ding ding we have a winner!



09rex===> sounds like your bodyshops are just plain bad in your area
$5k is nothing for a CRV estimate(not to minimize you mom's axx)

if the bodyshop didnt fix it right, dont bitch about the insurance comapany,
bitch about the shop that did not rpr the damage correctly. or did not give proper customer service to your family.


insurance companies PAY for the damage to be REPAIRED
not
REPAIR the DAMAGE caused by they're at fault insured

signed
insurance dmg appraiser for 12years
Those are valid points that actually reinforce my point. I thought there was 8-9k in damage to my Mom's car, but the quote came back for 5k and therefore the insurance company is well, lets fix because it is within our fixable threshold (car is probably only worth 10k right now...that's besides the point). So what the shop did was repair 5k worth of work since that's what the insurance company gave them. There are body panels that don't go together right, the rear fold out 'door/hitch' kind of sags and when you close it, it has to 'jump' up a bit at the end on top of the fact that the color doesn't match the rest of the car perfectly even though the whole door was ordered from Honda prepainted. The exhaust isn't hung right. The 'well' where the spare tire and that dumb picnic table is still dented. I'm sure the sub frame did not get straightened correctly. The HVAC system now has a slight buzz/hum when it is on. The B pillar rattles over bumps. The rear fold down seats creak as the body flexes on unsmooth roads or speed bumps. So there is still 3-4k of repairs that need to be done.

Pre accident, the car was probably only worth 16-17k. How is it that they didn't total it since even 5k is more than 20-25%? This is regardless of the fact that the repairs probably required even more repairs than the quote.

So what power does the person not at fault in the accident have over a crappy situation like this? Next to none.

I'm glad my wife got me grandfathered into USAA. I know this wouldn't happen to me. My brother an law totaled an e36 M3 that he paid 14k for, USAA gave him 17k for it and then he bought a one year older e36 M3 and his parents premium end up going DOWN!
09rexwagon is offline  
Old 08-12-2009, 09:39 PM   #22
carnz-pj-410
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 110994
Join Date: Mar 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Atlantic
Vehicle:
1993 Legacy Turbo

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ciper View Post
I don't know how to say this without sounding rude but that is way too much, especially for warranty work which is often less than the standard labor.

My times are from Mitchel OnDemand which is the defacto standard. It is the most popular (by far) software for estimations,,, among other things.

Warranty we get 8.4hrs. I didn't set the time, that's what it is in our shop and the shops in the area, we're actually a lower priced shop than the others in the area.
carnz-pj-410 is offline  
Old 08-12-2009, 10:22 PM   #23
JamesWilson2
ForumWars Winner!
 
Member#: 196948
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Kyle, TX
Vehicle:
2003 Forester
Silver

Default

PERFECT, Mitchell numbers and actual experience is what I was looking for.

Hofle-- I was trying to get Richard to put your GC engine in my Legacy when it was last there for paint, but no dice I didn't know you were in insurance, we need to talk, maybe you can assist with the negotiations...It's been one week, and I JUST got a claim # and they are waiting on statement from the other driver to "determine liability" before they even come out to look at the car. Gillman Subaru SW estimated $1800 in external damage not including any bent suspension components.

I would not consider doing only one HG, it's both or nothing. I am not planning on doing a full engine rebuild, just enough to get it running another 100K reliably. The turbo comments were only a far-off dream, this is a daily driver and I autocross plenty faster vehicles at a National level.
JamesWilson2 is offline  
Old 08-12-2009, 10:22 PM   #24
JamesWilson2
ForumWars Winner!
 
Member#: 196948
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Kyle, TX
Vehicle:
2003 Forester
Silver

Default

double post

Last edited by JamesWilson2; 08-12-2009 at 10:29 PM. Reason: double post
JamesWilson2 is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS : STi intake manifold and throttle body jcovey2.5 Engine/Power/Exhaust 173 12-05-2011 09:38 PM
New head gasket costs? mmmprza Service & Maintenance 11 12-11-2003 07:28 PM
head gasket cost teaguespeed Service & Maintenance 1 11-11-2003 11:01 AM
Going head gasket rate?? SDEWYZ Normally Aspirated Powertrain 6 10-26-2003 09:33 AM
2.5RS DOHC Head Gasket Job Parts List Chuck Normally Aspirated Powertrain 28 12-15-2002 05:06 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.