Riddle me this, too far gone or salvagable?

Niku-Sama · 08-30-2009, 11:47 PM

ok so i have a non subaru car thats about 31 years old now and i am pretty sure in its whole life has never seen a rotary buffer.

the car is clean the paint is as old as the car and has a few stains in it and of course chips on the front from being painted with acryllic enamle paint (supah hard). but thats not the big deal.

there are a bunch of scratches, minor but lots, that scratch down into the paint but dont hit the metal or primer, still in the color coat and some of them have been there a while.

some of the scratches kinda have tapered edges as it goes down into the paint, i tried to get a pic but i wasnt able to so you'd kinda have to imagine the valley a scratch can make in the paint and when its first made its kinda got shap edges where it goes down and over time it errodes and rounds those edges.

most of these are small but there are some that are pretty big and i was wondering with a good buff with a rotary and some rubbing to polishing to wax if it would get rid of them at all.

el_guapo · 08-31-2009, 09:00 AM

I have seen some amazing results with bringing paint back, it mostly all depends on how stubborn you are because it takes tons of time.

Kean · 08-31-2009, 12:31 PM

Hi Niku,

The following is a good, relatively short article I think would be perfect in this case. It will help give you a better understanding of the topic:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/guide-d...erfection.html

While I don't agree with every little detail in that article, it is still solid advice. In a nutshell, there is a point that you need to determine whether correcting those RIDS (random isolated deep scratches) is worth leveling the rest of the surrounding paint. Removing too much will leave less paint that you will have to work with in the future (creating thin spots that you might inadvertently burn through during future sessions). In many cases you will find that simply improving the scratch (as the edges round-out during polishing) is sufficient. ....both aesthetically and from a practical standpoint.

Below is another link to more articles, threads, etc. you may be interested in (for further research on this and other detailing subjects):

http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-det...s-newbies.html

Ultimately, the type of products, tools and techniques you will want to use will be dependent on your unique situation. Hopefully the above links will help steer you in the right direction though. Arm-chair detailing is all well and good but in many cases you don’t know what actually will work best until the car is in front of you and you able to work a test panel to see the results (using varying pads, products, etc. until you find the right combo). It also sounds like some parts of the car have been re-painted? If so, this may alter the way you attack each panel depending on the characteristics of the paint in those areas.

tdekany · 09-01-2009, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niku-Sama

ok so i have a non subaru car thats about 31 years old now and i am pretty sure in its whole life has never seen a rotary buffer.

the car is clean the paint is as old as the car and has a few stains in it and of course chips on the front from being painted with acryllic enamle paint (supah hard). but thats not the big deal.

there are a bunch of scratches, minor but lots, that scratch down into the paint but dont hit the metal or primer, still in the color coat and some of them have been there a while.

some of the scratches kinda have tapered edges as it goes down into the paint, i tried to get a pic but i wasnt able to so you'd kinda have to imagine the valley a scratch can make in the paint and when its first made its kinda got shap edges where it goes down and over time it errodes and rounds those edges.

most of these are small but there are some that are pretty big and i was wondering with a good buff with a rotary and some rubbing to polishing to wax if it would get rid of them at all.

What kind of car is it and what color?

Niku-Sama · 09-01-2009, 05:39 AM

1979 Datsun 280zx and the color is a coppery/orangish color, lemme see if i have a decent pic of the color in my web space....

edit:
heres one as a whole car, the color isnt really popping because of the lighting in this one but it goves you an idea

this one is a better example of the paint in the light:

the paint looks fantastic in pics but there are chips along the front end and the scratches arent noticable untill you get close up
i had to paint the mirrors and instead of trying to match the color i went with something different, all the factory paint had come off of them

mhorn0817 · 09-01-2009, 07:30 AM

rule of thumb is , if you can feel a scratch with you finger nail it wont be able to be wet sand and buffed out, but you may be able to do some buffing to hide it better, hard to say without seeing the scartchs

tdekany · 09-01-2009, 04:04 PM

I could measure the the paint for you to see what you can do with it.

Let me know if interested. I am in Hillsboro.

PS: nice car!

Niku-Sama · 09-01-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhorn0817

rule of thumb is , if you can feel a scratch with you finger nail it wont be able to be wet sand and buffed out, but you may be able to do some buffing to hide it better, hard to say without seeing the scartchs

hmm ok i forgot about this, i'll go freak the neighbors out by scratching the car like a cat with my nails, mabe i'll throw in some sounds for effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdekany

I could measure the the paint for you to see what you can do with it.

Let me know if interested. I am in Hillsboro.

PS: nice car!

thats cool but its probally goint to be a long time before i am able to go up north again. thanks though

WrxRcr · 09-01-2009, 06:12 PM

Damn you,

been looking for a nice 280z for a while now, every time i find one that appears to be in decent shape the frame is rusted through.

littlewhitewagon · 09-02-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WrxRcr

Damn you,

been looking for a nice 280z for a while now, every time i find one that appears to be in decent shape the frame is rusted through.

You want one without any rust? I have a yellow 77 that you would love. The paint is cracked from being in the AZ sun, but there is not rust and it's straight. All it needs is a fuel tank since it's current one has rust in it and keeps clogging the fuel filter.

ctrent86 · 09-02-2009, 07:52 PM

In the right hands the level over correction you can achieve will surprise you:
http://www.autopia.org/forum/pro-det...l-details.html

Kean · 09-02-2009, 08:35 PM

^^^^^ I remember seeing that one. There have been a few nice saves posted over there that really impressed me.

Niku-Sama · 09-02-2009, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WrxRcr

Damn you,

been looking for a nice 280z for a while now, every time i find one that appears to be in decent shape the frame is rusted through.

lemme guess, right under the battery tray and down the sub frame on the passenger side?
common problem spot, pay SUPER close attention to that spot in piticular, it can give way while driving, my tray is rusted but the underside and the sub frame are solid still so i mista saved it because the first thing i did was scrub the rust off the under side of the tray and it was all surface, self etching primer, a quick spray of random paint and then a whole can of undercoat under the tray and i have another leaking battery and its not eating through any thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlewhitewagon

You want one without any rust? I have a yellow 77 that you would love. The paint is cracked from being in the AZ sun, but there is not rust and it's straight. All it needs is a fuel tank since it's current one has rust in it and keeps clogging the fuel filter.

dropping the tank and taking it some place to clean it out isnt a problem on these, you sure its rust in there?
bwing rust free and rust in the tank doesent make much sence to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctrent86

In the right hands the level over correction you can achieve will surprise you:
http://www.autopia.org/forum/pro-det...l-details.html

that CANT be the same car can it?

ctrent86 · 09-03-2009, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niku-Sama

that CANT be the same car can it?

Well this is another one of his saves, so I would venture to say yes.

http://www.autopia.org/forum/pro-det...l-details.html

littlewhitewagon · 09-04-2009, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niku-Sama

dropping the tank and taking it some place to clean it out isnt a problem on these, you sure its rust in there?
bwing rust free and rust in the tank doesent make much sence to me.

Yeah, the car was in AZ so there isn't any rust on it. The rust in the tank is strange, most likely from the car sitting too long and not having any gas in the tank. Hot days, cold nights... condensation, not moving around...

The fuel filter keeps getting clogged with what looks to be rust particles. The previous owner says that if he cleans the tank really good (don't know how), it will be good for a few months. Then the rust will come back, clog the filter and need a cleaning or a new filter. New filter without cleaning the tank yields about a week of driving according to him. I never drove the car anywhere, only cranked it up to drive up and down the street.

sittinsideways · 09-04-2009, 09:52 AM

what a nice car you have taken great care of it. i dont see why that cant be buffed up at all to restore that show room shine!

Niku-Sama · 09-06-2009, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlewhitewagon

Yeah, the car was in AZ so there isn't any rust on it. The rust in the tank is strange, most likely from the car sitting too long and not having any gas in the tank. Hot days, cold nights... condensation, not moving around...

The fuel filter keeps getting clogged with what looks to be rust particles. The previous owner says that if he cleans the tank really good (don't know how), it will be good for a few months. Then the rust will come back, clog the filter and need a cleaning or a new filter. New filter without cleaning the tank yields about a week of driving according to him. I never drove the car anywhere, only cranked it up to drive up and down the street.

hmm werid
my pop and i rebulit a 65 chevy c-10 short wide that had been sitting and had a buncha junk in the tank. we pulled it and hosed it out and popped it back in and it was fine. gasoline not having any water in it for once helped of course but it wasnt too bad because it did run for a bit on the old stuff on the rebulit engine. we were hoping but we had to pull any way and then magic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sittinsideways

what a nice car you have taken great care of it. i dont see why that cant be buffed up at all to restore that show room shine!

thanks, there are a few things i am going to have to get touched up that arent pictured and i dont want to try it my self.

2 spots on the bottom rear corner of the rear wheel wells were rusted out from collecting stuff, fixed the rust problem there, sealed and sanded and filled (small holes) and "chipsealed" with undercoat spraying at a distance, rear hatch edge has a scrape from PO not taking snow off the car and breaking the rear wiper arm and gouging a huge chunk off the leading edge of the back hatch and the other common problem, rust above the windsheild from the chrome strip rubbing away the paint and letting water in.

and general chips across the front from 88,000 miles

flea market is tommorow, hopefully i can find a rotary....its been a while, if not...harbor freight it!

08-30-2009, 11:47 PM	#1
Niku-Sama Scooby Newbie Member#: 212426 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Deadford, OR/Arlington, WA Vehicle: 1990 Loyale AWD Turb White	Riddle me this, too far gone or salvagable? ok so i have a non subaru car thats about 31 years old now and i am pretty sure in its whole life has never seen a rotary buffer. the car is clean the paint is as old as the car and has a few stains in it and of course chips on the front from being painted with acryllic enamle paint (supah hard). but thats not the big deal. there are a bunch of scratches, minor but lots, that scratch down into the paint but dont hit the metal or primer, still in the color coat and some of them have been there a while. some of the scratches kinda have tapered edges as it goes down into the paint, i tried to get a pic but i wasnt able to so you'd kinda have to imagine the valley a scratch can make in the paint and when its first made its kinda got shap edges where it goes down and over time it errodes and rounds those edges. most of these are small but there are some that are pretty big and i was wondering with a good buff with a rotary and some rubbing to polishing to wax if it would get rid of them at all.

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08-31-2009, 09:00 AM	#2
el_guapo Scooby Specialist Member#: 132038 Join Date: Nov 2006 Chapter/Region: South East Location: shade tree Vehicle: funk er chicks serious bidness	I have seen some amazing results with bringing paint back, it mostly all depends on how stubborn you are because it takes tons of time.

08-31-2009, 12:31 PM	#3
Kean Scooby Guru Member#: 25187 Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: So. CA Vehicle: '03 WRX Sedan MBP '08 Forester Prem TGM	Hi Niku, The following is a good, relatively short article I think would be perfect in this case. It will help give you a better understanding of the topic: http://www.autopia.org/forum/guide-d...erfection.html While I don't agree with every little detail in that article, it is still solid advice. In a nutshell, there is a point that you need to determine whether correcting those RIDS (random isolated deep scratches) is worth leveling the rest of the surrounding paint. Removing too much will leave less paint that you will have to work with in the future (creating thin spots that you might inadvertently burn through during future sessions). In many cases you will find that simply improving the scratch (as the edges round-out during polishing) is sufficient. ....both aesthetically and from a practical standpoint. Below is another link to more articles, threads, etc. you may be interested in (for further research on this and other detailing subjects): http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-det...s-newbies.html Ultimately, the type of products, tools and techniques you will want to use will be dependent on your unique situation. Hopefully the above links will help steer you in the right direction though. Arm-chair detailing is all well and good but in many cases you don’t know what actually will work best until the car is in front of you and you able to work a test panel to see the results (using varying pads, products, etc. until you find the right combo). It also sounds like some parts of the car have been re-painted? If so, this may alter the way you attack each panel depending on the characteristics of the paint in those areas.

09-01-2009, 05:39 AM	#5
Niku-Sama Scooby Newbie Member#: 212426 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Deadford, OR/Arlington, WA Vehicle: 1990 Loyale AWD Turb White	1979 Datsun 280zx and the color is a coppery/orangish color, lemme see if i have a decent pic of the color in my web space.... edit: heres one as a whole car, the color isnt really popping because of the lighting in this one but it goves you an idea this one is a better example of the paint in the light: the paint looks fantastic in pics but there are chips along the front end and the scratches arent noticable untill you get close up i had to paint the mirrors and instead of trying to match the color i went with something different, all the factory paint had come off of them

09-01-2009, 07:30 AM	#6
mhorn0817 Scooby Newbie Member#: 207903 Join Date: Apr 2009 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Baltimore, MD Vehicle: 2004 WRX Wagon WRB	rule of thumb is , if you can feel a scratch with you finger nail it wont be able to be wet sand and buffed out, but you may be able to do some buffing to hide it better, hard to say without seeing the scartchs

09-01-2009, 04:04 PM	#7
tdekany Scooby Newbie Member#: 144035 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Portland Oregon	I could measure the the paint for you to see what you can do with it. Let me know if interested. I am in Hillsboro. PS: nice car!

09-01-2009, 06:12 PM	#9
WrxRcr Scooby Newbie Member#: 218050 Join Date: Jul 2009 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Columbus ohio Vehicle: 2009 Wrx sedan White	Damn you, been looking for a nice 280z for a while now, every time i find one that appears to be in decent shape the frame is rusted through.

09-02-2009, 07:52 PM	#11
ctrent86 Scooby Specialist Member#: 129199 Join Date: Oct 2006 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Jax Beach, FL Vehicle: 2004 WRX PSM Stage 2	In the right hands the level over correction you can achieve will surprise you: http://www.autopia.org/forum/pro-det...l-details.html

09-02-2009, 08:35 PM	#12
Kean Scooby Guru Member#: 25187 Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: So. CA Vehicle: '03 WRX Sedan MBP '08 Forester Prem TGM	^^^^^ I remember seeing that one. There have been a few nice saves posted over there that really impressed me.

09-04-2009, 09:52 AM	#16
sittinsideways Scooby Newbie Member#: 194823 Join Date: Nov 2008 Chapter/Region: South East Location: lake mary florida Vehicle: 2007 impreza 2.5i cgm	what a nice car you have taken great care of it. i dont see why that cant be buffed up at all to restore that show room shine!