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Old 09-11-2009, 03:10 PM   #1
azn2nr
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Default for those of you who are really good at looking up laws

can someone point to where it is outlined as to how laws that govern speeding are to be enforced? laser, radar, pacing, looking, camera ect?
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:17 PM   #2
Not-EWRX
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Someone got a ticket. Bitter are we?
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:17 PM   #3
ashergrey
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Utah State Code Title 41.

41-6a-212. Emergency vehicles -- Policy regarding vehicle pursuits -- Applicability of traffic law to highway work vehicles -- Exemptions.
(1) Subject to Subsections (2) through (5), the operator of an authorized emergency vehicle may exercise the privileges granted under this section when:
(a) responding to an emergency call;
(b) in the pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law; or
(c) responding to but not upon returning from a fire alarm.
(2) The operator of an authorized emergency vehicle may:
(a) park or stand, irrespective of the provisions of this chapter;
(b) proceed past a red or stop signal or stop sign, but only after slowing down as may be necessary for safe operation;
(c) exceed the maximum speed limits, unless prohibited by a local highway authority under Section 41-6a-208; or
(d) disregard regulations governing direction of movement or turning in specified directions.
(3) (a) Except as provided in Subsection (3)(b), privileges granted under this section to the operator of an authorized emergency vehicle, who is not involved in a vehicle pursuit, apply only when:
(i) the operator of the vehicle sounds an audible signal under Section 41-6a-1625; or
(ii) uses a visual signal with emergency lights in accordance with rules made under Section 41-6a-1601, which is visible from in front of the vehicle.
(b) An operator of an authorized emergency vehicle may exceed the maximum speed limit when engaged in normal patrolling activities with the purpose of identifying and apprehending violators.
(4) Privileges granted under this section to the operator of an authorized emergency vehicle involved in any vehicle pursuit apply only when:
(a) the operator of the vehicle:
(i) sounds an audible signal under Section 41-6a-1625; and
(ii) uses a visual signal with emergency lights in accordance with rules made under Section 41-6a-1601, which is visible from in front of the vehicle;
(b) the public agency employing the operator of the vehicle has, in effect, a written policy which describes the manner and circumstances in which any vehicle pursuit should be conducted and terminated;
(c) the operator of the vehicle has been trained in accordance with the written policy described in Subsection (4)(b); and
(d) the pursuit policy of the public agency is in conformance with standards established under Subsection (5).
(5) In accordance with Title 63G, Chapter 3, Utah Administrative Rulemaking Act, the Department of Public Safety shall make rules providing minimum standards for all emergency pursuit policies that are adopted by public agencies authorized to operate emergency pursuit vehicles.
(6) The privileges granted under this section do not relieve the operator of an authorized emergency vehicle of the duty to act as a reasonably prudent emergency vehicle operator in like circumstances.
(7) Except for Sections 41-6a-210, 41-6a-502, and 41-6a-528, this chapter does not apply to persons, motor vehicles, and other equipment while actually engaged in work on the surface of a highway.

Last edited by ashergrey; 09-11-2009 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:37 PM   #4
Jncominco2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azn2nr View Post
can someone point to where it is outlined as to how laws that govern speeding are to be enforced? laser, radar, pacing, looking, camera ect?
heres how they are inforced:

1. they radar/laser you going above the speed limit
2. pull you over
3. issue you a ticket
4. ????
5. PROFIT!!
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:26 PM   #5
UT_Evo
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Leave it to asher to pull em up. I saw the thread and was like "I wonder if asher posted yet..."
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Old 09-12-2009, 06:46 AM   #6
azn2nr
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not quite what i was looking for. the above sates that it is legal to pursue and disregard normal law to 'catch the bad guy"


what im looking for is where, if avaiable, it says that the law must be enforced. the above indicates the extent to which the law can be enforced but not that it is to be enforced in the first place.

and no i didnt get a ticket. the last ticket i got wasnt even for not yeilding to the right and that was last winter.
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Old 09-12-2009, 05:27 PM   #7
ashergrey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azn2nr View Post
what im looking for is where, if avaiable, it says that the law must be enforced. the above indicates the extent to which the law can be enforced but not that it is to be enforced in the first place.
I don't think what you're looking for would be part of the law as it's contained in the state code. It's going to be departmental policy and that will differ from agency to agency.

For example... this is what the Utah Highway Patrol has to say about it:

"Each law enforcement officer is given discretion in their enforcement of the law. Therefore, the speed limit enforcement tolerance varies between troopers and circumstances."
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Old 09-12-2009, 08:20 PM   #8
bhhamblin
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well whats the difference between state law and state code? there has to be somewhere that says something to the effect of "x law must be enforced in Y fashion" before there can be what was posed above which in the continuation of "x law must be enforced in Y fashion" which would be "x law must be enforced in Y fashion to the extent that the folowing should be allowed in the enforcement of X law.

your example from the UHP is kinda what im looking for which is a statement that lets you know that the law was written to be enforced and that there are no or very few laws which spesfically say within the law that it must be enforced. it will typically give an outline for consequences but will not say that every car must be checked for speed at all times in order to maintain adherence to the law, is that not correct?

-jason (azn2nr)
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Old 09-13-2009, 02:18 AM   #9
ashergrey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhhamblin View Post
well whats the difference between state law and state code? there has to be somewhere that says something to the effect of "x law must be enforced in Y fashion" before there can be what was posed above which in the continuation of "x law must be enforced in Y fashion" which would be "x law must be enforced in Y fashion to the extent that the folowing should be allowed in the enforcement of X law.

your example from the UHP is kinda what im looking for which is a statement that lets you know that the law was written to be enforced and that there are no or very few laws which spesfically say within the law that it must be enforced. it will typically give an outline for consequences but will not say that every car must be checked for speed at all times in order to maintain adherence to the law, is that not correct?

-jason (azn2nr)
The state code IS the state law. They're the same thing.

The state code is the result of bills being passed into law by the state legislature, so the language of the law is always going to be based on the way in which the individual bills are drafted. You're right that it's atypical for the state code to dictate how law enforcement should go about checking compliance.


The code says what you can and can't do and what the basic range of punishments are for violating those rules. But actual enforcement of the law is the job of the executive branch of government. That means most of the rules regarding what's appropriate or necessary for code compliance comes down to a question of policy and not law. If you have specific questions about the methods of a particular agency, you're pretty much going to have to contact the agency or its parent municipality in order to figure that out, as it's going to change from chief to chief, mayor to mayor and governor to governor.
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Old 09-13-2009, 02:52 AM   #10
azn2nr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashergrey View Post
The state code IS the state law. They're the same thing.

The state code is the result of bills being passed into law by the state legislature, so the language of the law is always going to be based on the way in which the individual bills are drafted. You're right that it's atypical for the state code to dictate how law enforcement should go about checking compliance.


The code says what you can and can't do and what the basic range of punishments are for violating those rules. But actual enforcement of the law is the job of the executive branch of government. That means most of the rules regarding what's appropriate or necessary for code compliance comes down to a question of policy and not law. If you have specific questions about the methods of a particular agency, you're pretty much going to have to contact the agency or its parent municipality in order to figure that out, as it's going to change from chief to chief, mayor to mayor and governor to governor.
when you say that it is atypical for state code to dictate compliance enforcement you leave room to say that there are such laws and codes out there that do dictate compliance enforcement. can you provide an example in which the law dictates compliance enforcement (it doesnt matter which law only that it is a law)? perhaps identification checks at bars and clubs?

would federal law be the same in regards to dictation of compliance enforcement? and can you give a single example of a federal law that has compliance enforcement written into it?
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Old 09-13-2009, 03:24 AM   #11
ashergrey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azn2nr View Post
when you say that it is atypical for state code to dictate compliance enforcement you leave room to say that there are such laws and codes out there that do dictate compliance enforcement. can you provide an example in which the law dictates compliance enforcement (it doesnt matter which law only that it is a law)? perhaps identification checks at bars and clubs?

would federal law be the same in regards to dictation of compliance enforcement? and can you give a single example of a federal law that has compliance enforcement written into it?
Off the top of my head I don't... I'm sure I could find something if I went looking, but I'm no lawyer and my interest in sifting through that stuff at 1:30 a.m. is pretty much non-existant.

The U.S. Code is huuuuge and tends to be much more difficult to read and interpret, given that it's full of, well, everything that's been passed into law by Congress over the last 200+ years. You can find examples of pretty much anything you'd like in it... but you can expect to spend a good amount of time going through book after book at a law library doing so.
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Old 09-13-2009, 08:42 PM   #12
yellow_snow
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the only law they ever pointed out in academy that states a WILL/MUST law of enforcement is in cohabitant abuse domestic violence.

Basically EVERYTHING else is up to the discretion of the officer/department in good trust that they will act as a rational and sane person would to protect people and enforce the law. It leaves HUGE grey areas to work with
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Old 09-13-2009, 08:59 PM   #13
azn2nr
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so to be perfectly clear it is up to the discression of those empowered by the law to enforce the law to infact enforce the law?
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:29 AM   #14
yellow_snow
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haha yes. thats why the hiring process to get on with a department is impossibly long and annoying, it takes forever to get hired, because I guess they have a lot of leeway out thereand they want to know you are making good decisions.

We have had encounters with police where they tried to tell us they had to pull us over for having no front license plate rather than the guy going 18 over next to us because he said he saw us first so he was obligated to. We called his total BS and he felt stupid, he is supposed to go after the thing that is most important
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