Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday July 25, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Built Motor Discussion

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-15-2009, 09:25 PM   #1
69subaru360
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159682
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
1995 WRX
1998 2.5 RS

Default My EJ22/EJ205 hybrid

This recently happened to my EJ205. A rod bolt broke at the dragstrip and exited out the top of the block. It was just one of those things, I was running a lot of power on the stock engine.




So I thought about it some and decided I really want a V7 or V8 EJ207. I found a few engines I could afford. But then I got to thinking about it and what I really want is a complete swap with 6 speed, brembos, maybe even rhd if I get a halfcut. So I need to save up for a while longer.

I decided to try something I have been thinking about for a while on a temporary basis. A phase 1 EJ22 shortblock with EJ205 wrx heads. When you think about it, the EJ205 shortblock isn't really any better than an old EJ22. It has the same crank, just with #3 thrust, same rods, and cast pistons. The pistons have 14.5 cc dish to them. I'm using 3 layer mls headgaskets for a 99 phase 2 EJ22. The older graphite gaskets are thicker and would lower compression but I am nervous using them with a turbo. I calculate roughly 8.8 to 1 compression with the 49cc EJ205 heads these gaskets.

I got a shortblock from a 93 legacy wagon at a u-pull junkyard for $40. I gave it a good cleaning and started putting it together. Here's where I am at, the head go on tomorrow. If anyone has any reasons why this won't work let me know, it seem like a good plan so far.


* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
69subaru360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2009, 09:44 AM   #2
FuJi K
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 3687
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: St. Paul, MN
Vehicle:
MY99 GF4 JDM 6spd
NF Performance

Default

You don't have to be afraid of the compression much. The phase1 motors of that year you pulled has a compression ratio of 9.5:1. The EJ22E heads of that motor is 40cc. Your WRX heads being 49cc drops the compression a good bunch. The JDM WRX's run 9.0:1CR.

You would just need a retune because of the higher compression. Run your same timing curve, but maybe lower boost 2-3psi. Only thing I worry about is the engine bearing's condition of that old of a motor. I replaced my 170K mile EJ22T bearings with new ones.
FuJi K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2009, 05:18 PM   #3
69subaru360
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159682
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
1995 WRX
1998 2.5 RS

Default

I'm going to drop a little timing out of it to start with and less boost. I'll put a little back in at a time and see if it likes it. I'm not too worried about the higher compression. I was worried about using the older graphite head gaskets, but I ended up using the newer 2.2 MLS ones. I'm not so worried about the bearings. I don't plan to drive this another 100,000 miles, it's just a temporary thing until I get the engine swap I really want.

It's all assembled now and ready to go in the car tomorrow.

69subaru360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2009, 05:26 PM   #4
jason miller
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 158313
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: W Laf, In
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
PSM

Default

So you're running a completely stock ej22(not "t") shortblock with wrx heads and your old 20g? This should be interesting.

That block isn't closed deck, is it?

What kind of header is that?
jason miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2009, 05:42 PM   #5
69subaru360
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159682
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
1995 WRX
1998 2.5 RS

Default

Yes, it's a stock EJ22 shortblock with EJ205 heads. It's an open deck block with cast pistons, just like the EJ205. It's no stronger or weaker than an EJ205, just .2 liter bigger.

It's still a 20G and that is an old gruppe-s header.
69subaru360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2009, 10:30 PM   #6
907Bum
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 183634
Join Date: Jul 2008
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: At the "B"
Vehicle:
02 wrx/ 92 ss
Booze fueled :)

Default

this is interesting, you could have gone with a phase 2 ej22e block, but non the less i'm interested on how this turns out...
907Bum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2009, 10:56 PM   #7
jason miller
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 158313
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: W Laf, In
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
PSM

Default

I think the $40 part had more to do with his choice than what phase it was. I don't blame him...
jason miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2009, 06:07 PM   #8
69subaru360
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159682
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
1995 WRX
1998 2.5 RS

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason miller View Post
I think the $40 part had more to do with his choice than what phase it was. I don't blame him...
Exactly, plus phase 2 EJ22 is no better than phase 1. Just #5 thrust and some minor differences.
69subaru360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2009, 06:11 PM   #9
69subaru360
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159682
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
1995 WRX
1998 2.5 RS

Default

Engine is in the car and running. No problems to report it runs fine. It has a little more torque off boost. I haven't run it hard yet, I backed the boost controller all the way off. It's fine at 1 bar boost though. I think I will drive it around for a few weeks on low boost to see how it holds up. If it does break, I'll post back on this thread.




69subaru360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 06:42 AM   #10
FuJi K
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 3687
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: St. Paul, MN
Vehicle:
MY99 GF4 JDM 6spd
NF Performance

Default

do give us your complete impression of this setup.
FuJi K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2009, 11:33 PM   #11
69subaru360
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159682
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
1995 WRX
1998 2.5 RS

Default

I like it so far. Around town off boost it drives better. It seems to spool the turbo quicker. I did a little logging and tuning. It likes about 3-5 degrees less timing than the 2.0 in the higher loads.
69subaru360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2009, 10:50 PM   #12
thorne
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 130063
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ohio
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
Silb

Default Hows it going?

Hows this holding up?
thorne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2009, 11:02 PM   #13
69subaru360
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159682
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
1995 WRX
1998 2.5 RS

Default

No problems.
69subaru360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2009, 11:12 PM   #14
eg33GC
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 206851
Join Date: Mar 2009
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
99 V4
EJ20K RS

Default

how is the powerband compared to the 2.0?
Noticeable tq gain?
eg33GC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2009, 11:13 PM   #15
69subaru360
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159682
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
1995 WRX
1998 2.5 RS

Default

It spools the turbo faster and has more torque lower in the rpm range.
69subaru360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2009, 12:57 AM   #16
thorne
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 130063
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ohio
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
Silb

Default

how much boost are you running ?

Any dyno or track times ? Have you raced on it?

Last edited by thorne; 12-02-2009 at 02:12 AM.
thorne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 10:59 AM   #17
FuJi K
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 3687
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: St. Paul, MN
Vehicle:
MY99 GF4 JDM 6spd
NF Performance

Default

what's the recent update? I know it's fast.... lolz
FuJi K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 11:41 AM   #18
69subaru360
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159682
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
1995 WRX
1998 2.5 RS

Default

I sold the car. It was still running great when I sold it. No issues at all.

I get bored with stuff fast. I'm building a 95 coupe with an EJ20G swap now.
69subaru360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 12:30 PM   #19
soobaviator
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 115070
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Northern VA
Vehicle:
2009 DGM LGT Spec.B
08 Audi Q7 4.2 PRM

Default

Very interesting indeed, would have liked to have seen a photo of the open deck in that motor...

-soobaviator
soobaviator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 05:08 PM   #20
69subaru360
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159682
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
1995 WRX
1998 2.5 RS

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by soobaviator View Post
Very interesting indeed, would have liked to have seen a photo of the open deck in that motor...

-soobaviator
It looked like every other EJ22. The deck looks the same as an EJ20 as well. It's the same bore as an EJ20 and the sleeves are about the same thickness.
69subaru360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 09:11 PM   #21
soobaviator
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 115070
Join Date: May 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Northern VA
Vehicle:
2009 DGM LGT Spec.B
08 Audi Q7 4.2 PRM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69subaru360 View Post
It looked like every other EJ22. The deck looks the same as an EJ20 as well. It's the same bore as an EJ20 and the sleeves are about the same thickness.
Perhaps I should have been more specific...

Wondering how the cylinder wall thickness stacks up to various EJ20X blocks. Is the block simply an earlier S20C block or does it have the beefy walls of some of the later T and W series blocks. Probably not since the EJ22T went closed deck but I'm still curious to see some measurements...



-soobaviator
soobaviator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2010, 11:25 PM   #22
FuJi K
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 3687
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: St. Paul, MN
Vehicle:
MY99 GF4 JDM 6spd
NF Performance

Default

I have... an '03 EJ205, '99 EJ22E, and '06 EJ255. My EJ22T has the heads on them so no measurement.
FuJi K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2010, 12:13 AM   #23
reddevil
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 64673
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: portland
Vehicle:
1990 Legacy wagon
goes 12.387 @ 116.5

Default

Waiiiiiiiiit.......

This is an NA high() compression block with the WRX heads thats is/was making big power?
reddevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 05:45 AM   #24
Audioexcels
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 104824
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Here and There
Vehicle:
2001 Saab 9-3
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddevil View Post
Waiiiiiiiiit.......

This is an NA high() compression block with the WRX heads thats is/was making big power?
It was a complete USDM EJ205 longblock. The rod tossed and blew that hole into the open deck (See top photo and left side where it is marked EJ20 on it). I dunno how the heads were even salvageable. Then he found a $40 2.2NA engine and put it into the car and sold the car (I don't want to even ask if the block was mentioned as being part of the sale since I'm sure the new owner wouldn't be too happy knowing a 2.2NA was in place of a regular WRX block).

Interesting what was said about the cylinders of the USDM EJ205 vs. the NA 2.2L. I thought the 2.2L's had better/thicker walls than the EJ20's.

Last edited by Audioexcels; 02-04-2010 at 06:01 AM.
Audioexcels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 02:12 PM   #25
69subaru360
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159682
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Maine
Vehicle:
1995 WRX
1998 2.5 RS

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audioexcels View Post
It was a complete USDM EJ205 longblock. The rod tossed and blew that hole into the open deck (See top photo and left side where it is marked EJ20 on it). I dunno how the heads were even salvageable. Then he found a $40 2.2NA engine and put it into the car and sold the car (I don't want to even ask if the block was mentioned as being part of the sale since I'm sure the new owner wouldn't be too happy knowing a 2.2NA was in place of a regular WRX block).

Interesting what was said about the cylinders of the USDM EJ205 vs. the NA 2.2L. I thought the 2.2L's had better/thicker walls than the EJ20's.
Wow, so quick to jump to conclusions.

The person who bought my car knew what they were getting. If you really want, search on here, craigslist and ebay for my old for sale ads. All of them said it was a 2.2 shortblock. I only sold it a few weeks ago. There was nothing to be unhappy about, it was a good running car. I drove it around 4 months after putting the engine together and had no issues at all. I went to the dragstrip twice with the 2.2. The first time I got a bad tank of gas and it was a wasted trip. The next time it was in the low 30's and I had RE01R summer tires that were like rocks in the cold and just spun. It ran a few mid 12's spinning bad. I did a big burnout to heat them, got it to hook and the exedy stage 1 clutch slipped. I put a 3 puck exedy stage 2 in it but didn't run the car at a track again before I sold it. It think it could have went high 11's. It went a 12.2 with the original 2.0 on a 90 degree day in the summer.

The usdm ej205 isn't some special "turbo" engine. It's an open deck block with the same crank and rods as a 2.2 and cast pistons just like the non turbo engines. Like I wrote above, the 2.2 is no stronger or weaker, just a little bigger.
69subaru360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
my ej22e hybrid, NEED INPUT borgey Subaru Conversions 3 06-16-2010 11:00 AM
18G + EJ22e + EJ205 + E85 - MAF = 364awhp thorne Proven Power Bragging 10 05-08-2010 08:30 PM
Timing belt For my ej22/ej25 hybrid subarumafia700 Pre-2002 Factory Turbo Powertrain 3 03-23-2010 10:16 PM
Hybrid EJ22/EJ205 build idea Chi_San Built Motor Discussion 3 08-01-2009 01:27 AM
Any WI ej205 hybrids? stevepius Mid West Subaru Owners Club Forum -- MWSOC 4 06-09-2005 11:20 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.