Buffing; Pro vs. Self

[subaru_steve]

So I've never buffed a car before. I was wondering how hard it is vs. gettin it professionally done. Is it worth the cost of gettin it professionally done? I am aware there are numerous posts on how to buff, but sometimes following a forum post just isn't the same as actually gettin to it.

[schred86]

i wasnt too hard for me, and it was my first time doing it....i rather do things myself as long as its withion reason.check out my thread
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1842217

[TexSurfer]

Originally Posted by subaru_steve

So I've never buffed a car before. I was wondering how hard it is vs. gettin it professionally done. Is it worth the cost of gettin it professionally done? I am aware there are numerous posts on how to buff, but sometimes following a forum post just isn't the same as actually gettin to it.

Steve, it's hard to answer this one in brief, so follow this link and see if this helps: http://www.autopia.org/forum/guide-d...erfection.html
My .02 is that if you aren't willing to really dig in and learn how to do it, and then in turn willing to purchase the proper equipment and products...I say hire a professional and get it done right the first time and then learn how to keep it that way.

[wantsti]

I would rather spend the money on the tools to do the job, rather then spending the money on a detailer to do it. It might cost about the same but you will always have to tools to do it after the first time.

[MT_Pockets]

If you want it done once before you sell it, just pay to have it done.
If you want the tools and knowledge to be able to maintain your and other cars get the stuff. A few hundred dollars should get you a decent setup. (orbital, not rotary)

* Took me several attempts to get the finish I was after. Might be worth paying someone if you have more money than time.

[subaru_steve]

Well what is the general price of a trip to get it polished professionally?

[Kean]

....prices are going to vary based on several factors. I would suggest browsing the regional forums here or (better yet) on Autopia.org. See what detailers are in your area and who fellow members recommend. .....then go shopping. I would also suggest doing at least some reading to get familiar with the processes involved (start with the link Tex provided). Also, you're going to want to know how to properly maintain the vehicle afterward (spend more time on those articles). ....otherwise it will all just be a waste of money.

By the way, here is another link you may find helpful. Some of the info is reduntant so just browse and choose those that are applicable:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-det...s-newbies.html

[JackTheMetalHead]

Originally Posted by wantsti

I would rather spend the money on the tools to do the job, rather then spending the money on a detailer to do it. It might cost about the same but you will always have to tools to do it after the first time.

AMEN sir. I made the mistake of having "professionals" do it for me, and they fuxed it up big time. They glazed the car to hide all the scratches they didn't remove and after a couple washes i was pissssssssseeeeedddddddddddd. Learned my lesson, bought a PC7424, and now it looks awesome.

C/N: Never pay people to detail your car.

[Kean]

....anyone can call themselves a "detailer" or whatever fancy title they want. What's really revealing is when you see some of these people post in the community forums.

It's disappointing that you had a bad experience but it doesn't reflect the quality of work from all detailers. This is why it is important to shop around, check referrals, etc. Do a little research yourself on the subject and ask questions. There are a lot of reputable folks out there that turn out quality work.

[Jay89]

Originally Posted by JackTheMetalHead

AMEN sir. I made the mistake of having "professionals" do it for me, and they fuxed it up big time. They glazed the car to hide all the scratches they didn't remove and after a couple washes i was pissssssssseeeeedddddddddddd. Learned my lesson, bought a PC7424, and now it looks awesome.

C/N: Never pay people to detail your car.

sorry you had a bad experience, but i can assure you that not all detailers are equal. i used to do my own polish and wax, but i met a buddy who is a detailer at BMW. he agreed to detail my car for me and what a difference it made. i read up on a lot of forums, i did my research on how, and what not to do. still, the car was beautiful after he was done with it. all the cars he details comes out almost perfect.

another thing is, from the information ive gathered, glazes, and polishes are designed to hide and remove light scratches. most deep scratches are fixed using paint and fillers. its hard to completely remove all scratches. if the glaze is not cured properly, it wont be able to protect your car as well. please do correct me if i am wrong. because if i am, i would like to know. you all know how the internet is these days, its not always accurate.

i know what i say wont be able to change your mind, but there are prolly many people who have had bad experiences with some detailers, while others have had extremely good relationships with their detailers. we dont mind if you share your experiences whether they are good or bad, just please dont group all detailers in the same catagory. maybe just point out the particular location where you had that bad experience, or experiences if you went to several and had the same result.

[STi22B]

Originally Posted by TexSurfer

My .02 is that if you aren't willing to really dig in and learn how to do it, and then in turn willing to purchase the proper equipment and products...I say hire a professional and get it done right the first time and then learn how to keep it that way.

This has been the best answer by far.

If you aren't willing to learn the massive loads of information about how to do it right, it's better to pay someone else to do it.

A good detail will cost you anywhere between 250-400 in today's world.

Supplies to "do it right" will cost you over 400 for sure. You can earn it back if you really want to, but the question is still "Do you want to do it?"

[Candor]

Originally Posted by STi22B

Supplies to "do it right" will cost you over 400 for sure. You can earn it back if you really want to, but the question is still "Do you want to do it?"

Don't know where you got 400+ from BUT its more so around 200 for a PC 7424 Kit with pads from Lake Country. Sometimes it is hard to justify something you will maybe use 2x a year on a car. The second you start thinking about doing someone else's car it's worth it. The paint seems to just "melt" with the right wax and polishing

[mhorn0817]

its alwasys nice to do it yourself but also you must know where and how much you can buff on certain parts. you cant buff on plastic as long as you can on metal...meaning you can buff doors,fenders,hoods twice as long as you can buff on bumpers,moldings. plastic heats up way faster then metal does and will burn or rip the paint off. just be careful

[JackTheMetalHead]

Originally Posted by Jay89

another thing is, from the information ive gathered, glazes, and polishes are designed to hide and remove light scratches. most deep scratches are fixed using paint and fillers. its hard to completely remove all scratches. if the glaze is not cured properly, it wont be able to protect your car as well. please do correct me if i am wrong. because if i am, i would like to know. you all know how the internet is these days, its not always accurate.

i know what i say wont be able to change your mind, but there are prolly many people who have had bad experiences with some detailers, while others have had extremely good relationships with their detailers. we dont mind if you share your experiences whether they are good or bad, just please dont group all detailers in the same catagory. maybe just point out the particular location where you had that bad experience, or experiences if you went to several and had the same result.

The thing is, the scratches aren't deep, there a lot of really fine ones, and they didn't remove any of them. All they did is leave me with holograms everywhere, and with all my scratches still there . I am aware that there are very talented detailers out there, and unless I have seen their work (like detailersdomain) and their process I won't let them touch my car.

[badmeat]

I didn't read any of the above posts...but I've worked at a dealership detailing and my father had his own body shop back in the day. As far as buffing paint goes, here's my crash course:

The more coarse of a compound/pad combo you use...i.e. a 'cutting' compound, the easier it is to mess it up. Polishes have finer grit in them and are harder to swirl paint and duff it up. Keep the buffer moving and on a lower rpm if your a noob. If you hold it in the same spot too long, it will heat up the paint and **** it up. So....

Get a polish or finer grit compound w/ a polishing pad
Run the buffer on lower rpm's
Don't keep on the same spot for a long time

If the scratches are still there, you feel more comfortable and are confident in your abilities, go with a coarser compound.

Good luck!

[SurfGuruJeff]

Just remember if you are high speed buffing, you're taking a very thin layer of clear coat away every time. Especially if you've never done it before.

The only time you should use a high speed is for correcting imperfections, like scratches, wetsanding marks, and oxidation. Try doing your whole car and say hello to corn rows when the wax fades away. Oh, and bye bye to your clear coat... watch those edges!

You're very VERY safe using a Random Orbit Polisher... buy a Porter Cable and all the pads for cutting/polishing. You'll need to use a strong car wash, then clay bar the car (use Meguiar's Quick Detailer as a lubricant), and THEN you can polish your car. But, please don't use a high speed polisher, and don't take it somewhere where they will use a high speed.... chances are, they will fuxor your paint, too.

[Kean]

Originally Posted by Jay89

another thing is, from the information ive gathered, glazes, and polishes are designed to hide and remove light scratches. most deep scratches are fixed using paint and fillers. its hard to completely remove all scratches. if the glaze is not cured properly, it wont be able to protect your car as well. please do correct me if i am wrong. because if i am, i would like to know. you all know how the internet is these days, its not always accurate.

....there are a lot of good pre-LSP examples posted showing blemish free correction by enthusiasts and good detailers alike. However, that is not to say glazes are necessarily a bad thing, that they are all created equal (i.e. different characteristics) or that some folks use them to hide something. Also, individual situations will vary. There is no "one size fits all" solution. A good detailer will have an arsenal and the experience to determine what will work best to fit the customers needs/expectations (based on what they are willing to pay for of course). ....the condition of the paint plays a big part in the game plan as well. ...etc., etc.

My point is that there is not always a simple answer to these types of things.

[Kean]

Originally Posted by SurfGuruJeff

Just remember if you are high speed buffing, you're taking a very thin layer of clear coat away every time. Especially if you've never done it before.

The only time you should use a high speed is for correcting imperfections, like scratches, wetsanding marks, and oxidation. Try doing your whole car and say hello to corn rows when the wax fades away. Oh, and bye bye to your clear coat... watch those edges!

You're very VERY safe using a Random Orbit Polisher... buy a Porter Cable and all the pads for cutting/polishing. You'll need to use a strong car wash, then clay bar the car (use Meguiar's Quick Detailer as a lubricant), and THEN you can polish your car. But, please don't use a high speed polisher, and don't take it somewhere where they will use a high speed.... chances are, they will fuxor your paint, too.

....misinformation and general comments like these are why folks get confused.

Anytime you use an abrasive tool/product to remove blemishes you are removing clear coat. ...and there is nothing wrong with using a rotary (which is well within it's intended purpose) if you know what you are doing. Many professionals have them in their arsenal. DA's and rotaries both have the ability to remove clearcoat/paint. ....in simplistic terms (all things being equal), the DA will simply take longer to achieve similar/same results. ....which is why it is safer for novices and preferred for finishing by some.

Problems like holograms, burn-through, over-correction, etc. are the result of the user not the tool.

[STi22B]

Originally Posted by Candor

Don't know where you got 400+ from BUT its more so around 200 for a PC 7424 Kit with pads from Lake Country. Sometimes it is hard to justify something you will maybe use 2x a year on a car. The second you start thinking about doing someone else's car it's worth it. The paint seems to just "melt" with the right wax and polishing

I am saying it'd cost 400+ to pay for every little thing such as towels, polish, and even some quality wash equipment.

[STi22B]

Originally Posted by Kean

....there are a lot of good pre-LSP examples posted showing blemish free correction by enthusiasts and good detailers alike. However, that is not to say glazes are necessarily a bad thing, that they are all created equal (i.e. different characteristics) or that some folks use them to hide something. Also, individual situations will vary. There is no "one size fits all" solution. A good detailer will have an arsenal and the experience to determine what will work best to fit the customers needs/expectations (based on what they are willing to pay for of course). ....the condition of the paint plays a big part in the game plan as well. ...etc., etc.

My point is that there is not always a simple answer to these types of things.

Very well said. If its intended purpose was primarily to fill, then real detailers would not even use it. Glazes give off a very wet look. They don't last too long though. Some people use it before car shows.

Detailers will have preference on what works for them, but there is no such thing as a "one for all" combination.

[Hines]

Originally Posted by subaru_steve

So I've never buffed a car before. I was wondering how hard it is vs. gettin it professionally done. Is it worth the cost of gettin it professionally done? I am aware there are numerous posts on how to buff, but sometimes following a forum post just isn't the same as actually gettin to it.

Steve, where abouts in PA are you located?. Id be willing to teach you if you want to learn.

Let me know.

Kris

[vinxH]

Originally Posted by JackTheMetalHead

The thing is, the scratches aren't deep, there a lot of really fine ones, and they didn't remove any of them. All they did is leave me with holograms everywhere, and with all my scratches still there . I am aware that there are very talented detailers out there, and unless I have seen their work (like detailersdomain) and their process I won't let them touch my car.

By "holograms" ... are you talking about those really small fine scratch marks left after trying to wax? If so, that may be a result of choosing the wrong brand of wax which leaves behind a small film of what seems to be like holograms, or improper waxing technique. Waxing shouldn't leave any "holograms" behind.

Either way, there isn't any one wax that I know of, that will fill in every scratch making it look flawless.

[subaru_steve]

Well currently I'm going to Pennsylvania College of Technology in Williamsport, Pa. But live in Lebanon/Lancaster area (yeah, Amish country)

[krzemienr]

this thread got's basics on using a polisher:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1846138

the post regarding holograms: holograms are left by inexperienced users on a rotary polishers, can be fixed. look at the pics of detailerssomain's thread on the makeover of the VW in the section, the thick lines reflecting light are holograms, claybarring and improper washing may leave marring (which is what you might be seeing as well). A good wax isn't designed to "fill" any imperfections (although a lot of the cleaner waxes out there do just that). A good wax job, will actually highlight all of your swirls and scratches of they are not removed properly.

Rafal

[JackTheMetalHead]

Originally Posted by vinxH

By "holograms" ... are you talking about those really small fine scratch marks left after trying to wax? If so, that may be a result of choosing the wrong brand of wax which leaves behind a small film of what seems to be like holograms, or improper waxing technique. Waxing shouldn't leave any "holograms" behind.

Either way, there isn't any one wax that I know of, that will fill in every scratch making it look flawless.

Holograms: (vertical lines)


They are left after machine polishing, not waxing...