Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday October 24, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-21-2009, 09:22 PM   #1
chrisarella
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 35584
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: www.chrisarella.com
Vehicle:
1965 FFR Roadster
Coyote + TR-6060

Default New MFactory Plated LSD for R160 (99+ Impreza/Forrester/Legacy)

Hi everyone. I recently stepped up and did a 6spd swap. Up until recently, when doing a swap you only had two choices when dealing with the rear end:
1. Upgrade to the stronger r180
2. stick with the weaker r160

The r160 diff allows you to keep everything as it is (axles, hubs, brakes, wheels, etc.) but is now the weak link in your drivetrain.

The r180 upgrade meant you needed to go with one of the following set-ups:
A. keep you 5x100 hubs (allowing you to kep your brakes and wheels) and have the drive shaft shop make custom axles to mate up to the r180.
B. swap out the entire read end, including STI rear axles, STI hubs (5x114.5) and new wheels, and Brembo brakes.

Those of us on a budget will naturally pick the r160 and a prayer nothing happens to the diff when pushing the ponies.

I personally didn't upgrade the rear diff to the r180 because I love my wheels and tires (5x100) and have $3k worth of brake upgrades. Going with the r180 would mean having to get new wheels/tires, brakes, hubs, and the whole sha-bing, totally upwards of $4k when all is said and done.

Well, we have a new option available... the new MFactory Plated LSD for R160.
- The plated units will be a direct drop in unit for all R160's from 99'+
- These are fully rebuildable and feature forged casings.
- Fits 99+ Imprezas, Forresters, and Legacys
- 1/1.5 way differential
- Options to replace the cam with a 1.0/1.5 or 1.5/2.0 (both fixed ramp angles).
- Pre-load springs are part of the design to smooth the transition of torque and eliminate chatter. This gives a far more precise feel and much easier to control.
- Lock % can be adjusted by re-stacking the plates (60-100%)

In case you do not know what 1/1.5/2 way means...

1 way L.S.D.- Specially suited for front wheel drive cars and 4WD car front axles. Activates under acceleration, and acts as a true LSD when the throttle is off.

1.5 way LSD- Activates under acceleration while the understeer is less than on the 2 way LSD. Recommended for drivers having difficulty with 2 way LSD understeer and one way LSD braking.

Two way LSD- Activates on both acceleration and deceleration.

Check out this thread... there is a group buy going on right now if you are interested. I for one hopped on. Only a few more spots.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1753618

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
chrisarella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2009, 09:36 PM   #2
Bad Noodle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 174442
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NNJ
Vehicle:
2007 SuperWagon
I don't spell well

Default

I though the weak link in the r160 was the smaller ring and pinion... wouldn't a LSD put more pressure on them?
Bad Noodle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2009, 09:49 PM   #3
chrisarella
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 35584
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: www.chrisarella.com
Vehicle:
1965 FFR Roadster
Coyote + TR-6060

Default

As far as I know it was the spider assembly, but I could be wrong.
Feel free to ask Dylan at DS1 Motorsports or MFactory directly. <--- click to send them a PM
chrisarella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2009, 06:49 PM   #4
chrisarella
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 35584
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: www.chrisarella.com
Vehicle:
1965 FFR Roadster
Coyote + TR-6060

Default

bumpity bump bump.
chrisarella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2009, 01:32 AM   #5
byroll01
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 611
Join Date: Dec 1999
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Saratoga Springs NY
Vehicle:
'05 E55 AMG
GetADomTune.com

Default

need pics to satisfy my cravings!!!

I just installed a one way cusco that I got used today...yeah, took me all day, it was my first time. My axles aren't right and I'm running with no circlips. I guess from what I can find I need old JDM axles...

The buy in price on this LSD is barely more than I paid for the used cusco!
byroll01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2009, 06:16 PM   #6
Patrick Olsen
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 120
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Where the Navy sends me...
Vehicle:
1997 Legacy 2.5GT
QuickSilver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisarella View Post
B. swap out the entire read end, including STI rear axles, STI hubs (5x114.5) and new wheels, and Brembo brakes.

I personally didn't upgrade the rear diff to the r180 because I love my wheels and tires (5x100) and have $3k worth of brake upgrades. Going with the r180 would mean having to get new wheels/tires, brakes, hubs, and the whole sha-bing, totally upwards of $4k when all is said and done.
You could have just stuck with '04 STI bits and not have to worry about swapping wheels and tires.

I just don't see how a new differential itself is really going to make that big a difference in the strength of the R160. The fact remains that it's a smaller diff using smaller gears that are more highly stressed than those in the R180.

Pat Olsen
Patrick Olsen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2009, 06:54 PM   #7
chrisarella
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 35584
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: www.chrisarella.com
Vehicle:
1965 FFR Roadster
Coyote + TR-6060

Default

^^^ the 04 STI axles are still different than my WRX axles and would require custom ones made by the Driveshaft Shop.
chrisarella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 06:53 AM   #8
Bad Noodle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 174442
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NNJ
Vehicle:
2007 SuperWagon
I don't spell well

Default

I'd really like to hear what DS1 or MFactory have to say about the weak points of the r160...
Bad Noodle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 07:30 AM   #9
FuJi K
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 3687
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: St. Paul, MN
Vehicle:
MY99 GF4 JDM 6spd
NF Performance

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Noodle View Post
I'd really like to hear what DS1 or MFactory have to say about the weak points of the r160...
The weak points are the spider gears. The R160 has 2 side gears, and 2 spider gears. If we had 4 spider gears, that would have been a different story. If you ever taken apart the rear diff, you'll know what I mean. Those spider gears are tiny. I've broke my fair share. I weld them up and I have a lot more fun doing donuts and such.

After putting in a good LSD, if it holds up, your pinion/ring gear are next to go out. If not that, then it'll be your little R160 axles. Overtime with and LSD you do look at bearing wear on the pinion gear if the LSD has a strong initial bite/lockup.
FuJi K is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 07:38 AM   #10
Bad Noodle
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 174442
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NNJ
Vehicle:
2007 SuperWagon
I don't spell well

Default

^ that's some good info

I was considering the lsd, but didn't know if it would put more stress on the ring and pinion and cause an earlier failure. The r160 I have now is an open diff, so the rear wheels break free much quicker since torque gets delivered to the wheel with the least resistance.
With and LSD, this wouldn't happen since the locking would distribute the torque to the other wheel as well minimizing wheel slipping and thus putting more stress on the r&p
Bad Noodle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 08:28 AM   #11
mccanixx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 60566
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, Ca.
Vehicle:
2005 XT 5sp, 02 WRX
01 Legacy 95 Impreza L

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Noodle View Post
^ that's some good info

I was considering the lsd, but didn't know if it would put more stress on the ring and pinion and cause an earlier failure. The r160 I have now is an open diff, so the rear wheels break free much quicker since torque gets delivered to the wheel with the least resistance.
With and LSD, this wouldn't happen since the locking would distribute the torque to the other wheel as well minimizing wheel slipping and thus putting more stress on the r&p
The upside is you have a good performing vehicle. I will take the potential side-effects to have good diffs in the car.

As some one who's chewed up spiders in stock rears. I'll take my chances with the putting more load through the bigger R&P, then suffer the horrible performance of stock wrx diffs.

my .02 and good price on the plated diff. I run the m-factory helical in the front and I would say it's been stellar, quality wise, thus far.
mccanixx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 09:15 AM   #12
Turn in Concepts
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 93646
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
Many Track Records
Let us help you go fast!

Default

We cracked the root of every tooth on an R160 pinion gear, at even a moderate power level.

We actually kept it at R160 though, but I worked some magic on the R&P and it has been working quite well ever since.
Turn in Concepts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 02:56 PM   #13
aboothman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 127745
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Humboldt County
Vehicle:
06 WRX 30r 6 speed
99L EJ255 6 Speed

Default

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Cusco and a couple other manufacturers have been making R160 diffs for a while.
aboothman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 09:31 PM   #14
byroll01
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 611
Join Date: Dec 1999
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Saratoga Springs NY
Vehicle:
'05 E55 AMG
GetADomTune.com

Default

they're more than 675 (the the normal price of 800) though...
byroll01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 09:38 PM   #15
mccanixx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 60566
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, Ca.
Vehicle:
2005 XT 5sp, 02 WRX
01 Legacy 95 Impreza L

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aboothman View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Cusco and a couple other manufacturers have been making R160 diffs for a while.
~ 1200.00 for the cusco 1.5
mccanixx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2009, 04:33 PM   #16
aboothman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 127745
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Humboldt County
Vehicle:
06 WRX 30r 6 speed
99L EJ255 6 Speed

Default

But they are proven...

...and when I was researching a 6 speed with an R160, I priced a 1.5 way for about $950 shipped.
aboothman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2009, 01:53 AM   #17
CPC
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 123085
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Vehicle:
2006 WRX

Default

chrisarella,

The group buy thread for these died a couple of weeks ago. Are these things available to buy or were they waiting on numbers from the group buy before they started to make them? Thanks.

Chris.
CPC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2009, 09:35 PM   #18
chrisarella
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 35584
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: www.chrisarella.com
Vehicle:
1965 FFR Roadster
Coyote + TR-6060

Default

I believe these were going to be made regardless, but want to generate some initial interest and momentum to get some of the up-front costs covered.
chrisarella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2009, 02:23 AM   #19
RonJitsu
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132301
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Central NJ
Vehicle:
07 WRX Limited 6MT
20G - SWP - SOLD

Default

I would probably go this route if there was a QUALITY set of axle's available for the R160(I see them as the weak point along with the R160).
I have a spare R160 in the garage for when I break mine.
RonJitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2009, 08:56 AM   #20
chrisarella
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 35584
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: www.chrisarella.com
Vehicle:
1965 FFR Roadster
Coyote + TR-6060

Default

The driveshaft shop makes axles and hubs for our cars rated from 750-1000hp, 5-spd or 6-spd, r160 or r180 applications. They are REAL pricey though, but if you feel you need axles they're the ones to go with.

http://www.driveshaftshop.com
chrisarella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2009, 12:45 PM   #21
RonJitsu
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132301
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Central NJ
Vehicle:
07 WRX Limited 6MT
20G - SWP - SOLD

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisarella View Post
The driveshaft shop makes axles and hubs for our cars rated from 750-1000hp, 5-spd or 6-spd, r160 or r180 applications. They are REAL pricey though, but if you feel you need axles they're the ones to go with.

http://www.driveshaftshop.com
Yea I know about the DSS ones. Thats why I mentioned "quality". The DSS axles are strong, but are reportedly clunky and fitment leaves alot to be desired.
DS1 has mentioned that they'd like to offer a quality set of axles, but I havent heard anything as of yet...
RonJitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2009, 12:54 PM   #22
jstalford
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 175819
Join Date: Mar 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Charlotte
Vehicle:
2006 Rav4
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
We cracked the root of every tooth on an R160 pinion gear, at even a moderate power level.

We actually kept it at R160 though, but I worked some magic on the R&P and it has been working quite well ever since.
Are we allowed details? Is that something that would ever be available to customers?
jstalford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2009, 11:13 AM   #23
jonpark
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 141449
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Glen Mills, PA
Vehicle:
2007 EvoIII16g WRX
UGM EJ257+05/6speed

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
We cracked the root of every tooth on an R160 pinion gear, at even a moderate power level.

We actually kept it at R160 though, but I worked some magic on the R&P and it has been working quite well ever since.
So what exactly did you do on that R&P to make it stronger? Can you let us know please?
jonpark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 06:43 AM   #24
CPC
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 123085
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Vehicle:
2006 WRX

Default

Again, does anyone know if these things exist yet? There is nothing on their website about them being available.

Also, TiC please tell us about this magic on the R&P you guys did

Chris.
CPC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 09:18 PM   #25
ljaviation
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 42270
Join Date: Aug 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Asheboro, NC
Vehicle:
2003 A&P IA
ww.flyingleafaviation.com

Default

I run a 03 WRX with the 5x100. and ran the Cusco 2 wayMZ. Loved the diff. Unfortunately, I have tore ring and pinion teeth out of 2 R160's since last Oct at VIR. 430 WHP, 18 PSI.
Bought a stock R180. I had DSS axles in the car, called them and told them I was upgrading to the R180, and they "hybrided" (if that's a word) my axles to the R180, and keep all my existing hubs, brakes, ect.
I talked to Lee, and it was a $500 upgrade. I have too much invested in the 5x100 setup and will stick with it.
I do hate te factory rear diff and will be getting another aftermarket.
Posted for relation of axle possibilities.
L J
ljaviation is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MFactory Plated LSD for R160 Group Buy DS1 Vendor 'Group Buy' Classifieds 99 09-16-2009 11:06 PM
Need Aftermarket Lsd For R160!! cquirki Private 'Wanted' Classifieds 0 06-08-2008 08:47 PM
NIB Cusco 1.5 RS LSD for R160 raamaudio Drivetrain 6 08-04-2007 10:47 AM
Strongest aftermarket LSD for R160? WRXINTX Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline 9 10-07-2005 10:16 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.