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Old 11-03-2009, 12:09 PM   #1
Davenow
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Default "Newbie bashing will not be tolerated here" Lets up the stakes once and for all.

There are no excuses for either of these 2 things.

1. Being too lazy to read the stickies at the top or reading them and feeling that you are the exception to the rule.

2. Being a dick.


I know, coming from ME of all people, but I am tired of it. We seem to have a new cluster of people forming in the newbie forum that seem to feel the need to name call and bash.


I propose this.


ZERO tolerance.

First offense, BAN. Period, no warning, just you come back and find you cant log in because your account is banned. Maybe allow the person to make a new account in 90 days or something.

We need to make this have SEVERE consequences to get rid of these guys.

Like I said, coming from me, this is ironic, and I know I tend to lose my cool at times, but I am willing to put my @ on the line for this.


If the mods are too soft (meaning not harsh enough) to do it, then a 30 day TO first offense, BAN second.

If someone calls someone a moron or idiot over a difference of opinion, then cant post for a month, they will REALLY think twice about doing it again. Or they simply wont come back. Either way, with 200k+ members, we dont need a bunch of new dicks coming in here helping perpetuate NASIOCs reputation for being a rough place.




It really bums me out when I see a post that goes like this


"I know I am going to get flamed for this, but (insert question here)"

When its a simple question. Even if its something that could have easily been found with a simple search.

In the cases where they should have searched, sure, guide them to the search button. If you dont think they should get an answer without searching, guide them to the search feature and DONT ANSWER their question. I am ALL FOR making people try to learn things on their own first if possible. But simply coming back with "do a search" with no explaination of how or maybe helpful suggestions of what search terms to use, is just not cool. The purpose of the newbie forum is TO HELP PEOPLE.
So either help people, or honestly, get out and dont come back. (obviously if you are here to get help, dont go away I just mean if you are going to give 2 word completely non helpful jerk comment answers, we dont need you here.)


Someone needs to handle these people, or just give me the power and I will do it. I have volunteered to moderate the newbie forum a few times since my reform, and the offer still stands. I guarantee I spend more time in here than the current mods do. Not that they dont do a good job, but I have the freedom to be in more places more often than they do. I have an iron fist sitting here on my desk, waiting to rule.


Even without that, if you see someone being a dick, REPORT THEM. Now, DO NOT ABUSE THE REPORT BUTTON. If someone disagrees with you in a BIG seemingly aggressive way, well maybe they feel very passionate about their viewpoint. Dont report things like that.

But when someone calls YOU an idiot, or calls the entire thread a bunch of idiots, or morons, or the like, fire away. IMO we dont need those people here.

If someone trashes a vendor or tuner, that DOESNT APPLY TO YOU. Dont report it. People are free to have their own opinions of a vendor or tuner, and IMO should be allowed to state that they dont like that vendor or tuner.

Obviously there is a line where them stating their thoughts and opinions on the vendor or tuner crosses into harrasment or just out and out "we are tired of hearing you, we all know your opinion, now go away" terratory, and the mods can deal with that as they see fit.



In any case, like I said, I would like to see, and I am sure I am not the only one, a zero tolerance policy, that is ACTUALLY ENFORCED, with very swift and harsh penalties. MINIMUM 30 day TO. I vote 60 or 90 day TO, or better yet, total acct ban.



Who is with me? If enough people step up and call for it, eventually the mods will make changes. They are good like that. We have a good current crop of them. Although Jack is a little old and probably keeps wondering why he cant make moderator changes on the rascal forums.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:10 PM   #2
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My suggestion- use the Post Report clicky thing. We will handle it. I don't allow bashing at ALL in here, be it from Newbies or regulars, and will act accordingly.


An immediate ban is just not realistic.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:14 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiosavvy View Post
My suggestion- use the Post Report clicky thing. We will handle it. I don't allow bashing at ALL in here, be it from Newbies or regulars, and will act accordingly.

Stricter action is what I am looking for. BURY these people. Just hammer them hard. 6 points for flaming does nothing to sway someone, They expire too fast and unless they get 4 sets of that in one shot, doesnt affect their acct at all anyway. I should know, I have had it happen enough in the past or in my head butting with the TXIC "moderators" It does nothing.


TO, on the other hand, will give them pause before they hit "submit reply" the next time.

Or bans, well if people start seeing people going away permanently, they will, again, think twice before calling someone a moron.

Why is it not realistic?

The rule is there. Its the rule, PERIOD. Its not "sometimes its ok", its "its never ok" So lets make it truly, never ok. It says it wont be tolerated, IMO, 6 points, when it takes 21 to TO someone, is entirely tolerating it. Well, almost entirely. Its the difference between a warning for speeding or a $450 speeding ticket. Which one has the most impact on people speeding in that area?


And yes, I am WELL AWARE that over the past few years, there are 2384724789327 times I would have been banned under this policy. If I can follow it, anyone can.






So would an immediate TO be realistic? Even a week long one? I still disagree that this would be harsh enough, and really when you think about it, how many people would actually get banned before the problem was GONE? Not too many. Word would spready REALLY fast that this person or that person got banned for calling someone a moron over something stupid.



The exception to this rule would be that we can still call Jack old.

Last edited by Davenow; 11-03-2009 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:14 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
If the mods are too soft (meaning not harsh enough) to do it, then a 30 day TO first offense, BAN second.
Uh, I am far from soft when it comes to this rule. You talk about seeing all this crap lately, yet I've seen NO reported posts from you on the topic. We can't read everything, but ANYTHING reported WILL be responded to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
The purpose of the newbie forum is TO HELP PEOPLE.
So either help people, or honestly, get out and dont come back.
I know I'm soft and all, but the many many people who have gotten points for flaming here receive a very similar message via PM.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:16 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
Stricter action is what I am looking for. BURY these people. Just hammer them hard. 6 points for flaming does nothing to sway someone, They expire too fast and unless they get 4 sets of that in one shot, doesnt affect their acct at all anyway. I should know, I have had it happen enough in the past or in my head butting with the TXIC "moderators" It does nothing.


TO, on the other hand, will give them pause before they hit "submit reply" the next time.

Or bans, well if people start seeing people going away permanently, they will, again, think twice before calling someone a moron.
If someone gets points and continues their shenanigans, they get TO. If they then continue or get an attitude, it gets worse real fast.

Again, I haven't seen reported posts on dickish behavior (occasionally, but not so many as you seem to make reference to). When I do, I am not nice about flaming/bashing in the Newbies forum. There are many here who can attest to that.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:21 PM   #6
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I have to admit....audio is great about giving me points.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:24 PM   #7
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I know, I have been slacking on reports. But that comes from a "it just wont do any good" apathetic and defeatist attitude on my end. I openly admit that.

Honestly, I feel like a whiner and a tattle tale every time I hit that button. But I have mixed feelings of not wanting to be a rat, and being sick and tired of someone feeling the need to call someone names because they disagree with them.


I know what you are saying, and I understand about "gets points, and continues then they TO" But that still allows for the first offense. I am looking for a way to REALLY make people think before commiting the first offense.


I dont know, maybe I am old and tired and grumpy, but I have just had it to here (imagine me holding my hand sort of level kinda maybe shoulder level) with the crap.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:25 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YourMother'sLover View Post
I have to admit....audio is great about giving me points.

I think you are wrong, I need fresh proof that he is good at giving you points.






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Old 11-03-2009, 12:26 PM   #9
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I'm sorry, but in my experience in multiple forums there are some people that truly are morons or idiots. If we can't let them know what they are then there should also be a no dumbf***ery(not sure about how good the swear filter is on this site yet) allowed rule.

I'm not talking about stupid questions here, because what we may take as common knowledge other people may not have a clue about. I'm talking about people who run around making stupid posts and generally not having a clue about what they are talking about. My favorite saying is, "When in doubt, shut up."
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:27 PM   #10
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You gotta understand, I am not saying you guys arent doing your job, or even not doing good enough at it.

I am saying we need stricter penalties for some things.



But not calling Jack old. For god sake the mans first posts were in hieroglyphics.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEp8ntballer View Post
I'm sorry, but in my experience in multiple forums there are some people that truly are morons or idiots. If we can't let them know what they are then there should also be a no dumbf***ery(not sure about how good the swear filter is on this site yet) allowed rule.

I'm not talking about stupid questions here, because what we may take as common knowledge other people may not have a clue about. I'm talking about people who run around making stupid posts and generally not having a clue about what they are talking about. My favorite saying is, "When in doubt, shut up."


I know what you are saying, there are most definitely a LOT of idiots on any forum with this many people.

But there are better ways of telling someone they are an idiot. Coming right out and saying "you're a moron" is going to do nothing but piss them off, and start a fight. You will never, ever, convince someone they are wrong, by calling them an idiot or moron. If anything, it encourages them to be more of an idiot. Trust me, if I can figure out how to get my point across without slamming someone, anyone can.



BTW the swear filter here is really ****ing good, it doesnt allow any mother****ing bull**** through onto the **** ******* **** posts.
on a related note, can ****ing mods see the ****ing piece of **** ******* words unfiltered? If so, that is some ****ed up bull**** right the **** there.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:29 PM   #12
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wow i didnt know there was a report button lOl..
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:33 PM   #13
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wow i didnt know there was a report button lOl..

SEE!!!!
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
I know, I have been slacking on reports. But that comes from a "it just wont do any good" apathetic and defeatist attitude on my end. I openly admit that.

Honestly, I feel like a whiner and a tattle tale every time I hit that button. But I have mixed feelings of not wanting to be a rat, and being sick and tired of someone feeling the need to call someone names because they disagree with them.
Well, see, now, you gotta quit thinking like that. Every reported post in the forums that I moderate I WILL see. If it's been attended to, then good. If not, I start swinging.

Don't feel like a tattle tale when you report posts. It helps the moderators who can't read every post in every thread. Really you're helping by reporting the posts.

So keep your chin up, you surly bastard you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
I think you are wrong, I need fresh proof that he is good at giving you points.







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Old 11-03-2009, 12:34 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Audiosavvy View Post
Well, see, now, you gotta quit thinking like that. Every reported post in the forums that I moderate I WILL see. If it's been attended to, then good. If not, I start swinging.

Don't feel like a tattle tale when you report posts. It helps the moderators who can't read every post in every thread. Really you're helping by reporting the posts.

So keep your chin up, you surly bastard you!




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Old 11-03-2009, 12:38 PM   #16
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As a newbie I had a couple of questions about a car I was not used to. It was very helpful when someone answered (what to most here was a no brainer) my questions in a clear manner. So if a person asks a basic question when new here I am all for just simply giving the answer and letting them know where it could have been found if that is the case.

There is really no good reason to treat anyone rudely just because you don't like their car or some statement they made. Correcting or giving an opinion is fine, but going on to personally attack a person is out of line. Jerks need disapline, give it to them. That is one thing lacking in our society: Quick consequences for wrong doing. If their mothers didn't teach them perhaps some small lessons can be learned on line.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:40 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Forgiven View Post
As a newbie I had a couple of questions about a car I was not used to. It was very helpful when someone answered (what to most here was a no brainer) my questions in a clear manner. So if a person asks a basic question when new here I am all for just simply giving the answer and letting them know where it could have been found if that is the case.

There is really no good reason to treat anyone rudely just because you don't like their car or some statement they made. Correcting or giving an opinion is fine, but going on to personally attack a person is out of line. Jerks need disapline, give it to them. That is one thing lacking in our society: Quick consequences for wrong doing. If their mothers didn't teach them perhaps some small lessons can be learned on line.

Couldnt have said it better myself. Im sorry man, 6 points for the first offense is not enough.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:41 PM   #18
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**** you newb davenow.

ps when are my brake bits coming in? are you free anytime fri or sat to help me install?

pss, i just ask you all my newbie questions and skip the forums.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:41 PM   #19
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The 6 points is to get their attention. Daiv, yoar assuming that EVERYONE reads the Stickies and rules of the forum, and taint the case!

6 points gets their attention. If they don't play nice after that, it quickly gets worse for them.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:47 PM   #20
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The 6 points is to get their attention. Daiv, yoar assuming that EVERYONE reads the Stickies and rules of the forum, and taint the case!

6 points gets their attention. If they don't play nice after that, it quickly gets worse for them.

First off, leave my taint out of this.







I know a lot of people arent reading them. That sounds like something on the list of things that are not the rest of our problems.


Not reading the sticky is one thing.

Ignoring a big, bold thread title that says it wont be tolerated, is another. I mean come on, that puts it all right there. What part of the title "newbie bashing will not be tolerated" requires you to read the post itself, to get the point?


How about 20 points? We are talking about taking a slap on the wrist that you have to understand, 9 out of 10 people could care less about, and turning it into a gut punch that knocks the wind out of them.

There have been, in the past PLENTY of times where I would just absolutely tear someone apart, knowing full well points would be coming for it. Heck man I went after a moderator like that (glilly, which funny enough, we are friends now, all it took was getting drunk together ). And I know I am not the only person that feels that way. When I have less than 18 points, I could give a flying crap about getting 6 more. Again, I am far from the only person that feels this way.

If I got a hit that took me to ONE point away from a TO, guess what, I am going to rethink posting that.


You gotta make it hit harder to get the point across. Make it harsh enough that people arent willing to just take the points in order to post whatever it is.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:59 PM   #21
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**** you newb davenow.

ps when are my brake bits coming in? are you free anytime fri or sat to help me install?

pss, i just ask you all my newbie questions and skip the forums.
I think they should be here by then, and I should be free Friday or Monday to install them.

I am not sure what time themadscientist is coming in, and I have renfair one of the days next weekend (and celtic festival the next!) so I will have to figure out when I am free. I have my swap to get done as well, but my flywheel wont be here by that time, and its not like your brakes will take long to do.
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Old 11-03-2009, 01:03 PM   #22
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friday it is? hah. beer and food!?
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Old 11-03-2009, 01:46 PM   #23
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This thread is full of...... ehh actually I dont want any points.
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Old 11-03-2009, 01:54 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
BTW the swear filter here is really ****ing good, it doesnt allow any mother****ing bull**** through onto the **** ******* **** posts.
on a related note, can ****ing mods see the ****ing piece of **** ******* words unfiltered? If so, that is some ****ed up bull**** right the **** there.
I lol'd so hard at this.

Now, getting to the point. I definitely agreed with you, as it seems to me, that whenever I post anything on these forums, I'm almost always getting bashed.

DOWN WITH THE BASHERS!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
First off, leave my taint out of this.
I also lol'd at this pretty dang hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
First off, leave my taint out of this.















I know a lot of people arent reading them. That sounds like something on the list of things that are not the rest of our problems.





Not reading the sticky is one thing.



Ignoring a big, bold thread title that says it wont be tolerated, is another. I mean come on, that puts it all right there. What part of the title "newbie bashing will not be tolerated" requires you to read the post itself, to get the point?





How about 20 points? We are talking about taking a slap on the wrist that you have to understand, 9 out of 10 people could care less about, and turning it into a gut punch that knocks the wind out of them.



There have been, in the past PLENTY of times where I would just absolutely tear someone apart, knowing full well points would be coming for it. Heck man I went after a moderator like that (glilly, which funny enough, we are friends now, all it took was getting drunk together ). And I know I am not the only person that feels that way. When I have less than 18 points, I could give a flying crap about getting 6 more. Again, I am far from the only person that feels this way.



If I got a hit that took me to ONE point away from a TO, guess what, I am going to rethink posting that.





You gotta make it hit harder to get the point across. Make it harsh enough that people arent willing to just take the points in order to post whatever it is.
And OMG do you have a point there! If everyone just thought like you, I think a lot more would run smoother (and no, that's NOT exaggeration)
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Old 11-03-2009, 02:07 PM   #25
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Dave,

yoar posts have too many words in them. Pleez limit yourself to 17 words. Oh, and I know it's that time of the month for you, so I do understand.

....and when you comin' back home, man? I'm gonna have snow to shovel pretty soon and I do NOT shovel. The kids will only do so much.



....and....use the report button. We really do respond.....even when we don't follow your instructions.
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