Smoke out that back AFTER Boost

RSblood · 11-02-2009, 12:23 PM

Recently installed a Perrin Turbo inlect because my OEM inlet was broken. Had to do some funky rerouting of the PCV/crank case hose. Did it right according to Perrins instructions. Made sure there were no vacuum leaks, all connections were a tight fit.
*I also didn't get tuned for this, because I figured that this small of an upgrade wouldn't affect it. Perrins charts show that the test car was not tuned when adding this part.

Now whenever I hit boost (EWG opens up fully), a cloud of smoke will pour out the back usually 1-2 seconds after lifting off (deceleration). Sometimes the smoke is grey and white, sometimes blue, sometimes a mix of both.

I've heard similar problems where a catch can could be used to solve this problem. Also found that it could be the turbo seals. I have noticed a little coolant laying around the turbo Center section.

Is it possible that this problem could have been caused by adding the Perrin turbo inlet?
I've noticed small issues with the turbo before, but have never found smoke pouring out the back like this before.

How bad is this? Should I avoid boost at all? I've been driving around like a granny because I'm nervous about this, sometimes I'll open it up and hit boost to see if it's still there, and it usually leaves a cloud behind me, I'm sure the driver behind me isnt too happy about this either.

I'm just confused whether it's just bad timing with the turbo being on it's way out, or if it's caused by the new rerouting of the PCV hose.

MODS:
-Custom short ram intake (its fine)
-Perrin Turbo inlet
-Invidia EL headers/up pipe
-VF22 turbo
-Tial 38mm EWG
-Ebay top mount and y pipe
-Grimmspeed EBCS

Any info/help would be great.
Thanks in advance.

-Matt

RSblood · 11-03-2009, 11:08 AM

Anyone?

It usually only happens at WOT, regardless of RPM I found out this morning.

Aaron'z 2.5RS · 11-03-2009, 01:05 PM

Can you reproduce it in the driveway? revving from under the hood?

If so, what's the cloud smell like?? Oil, coolant or fuel?

I'm having a semi-similar issue with my car... semi-similar set-up... My VF22 is on the way out... I can feel shaft play by hand... not good...

I'm over fueling to the point of fouling plugs, and I can't seem to figure it out... but it gives me some wikkid vapors out the back...

Really, it comes down to what you smell out the pipe, that would be where I would start... if it smells like oil, i'd consider the turbo seals, espically considering what you've said about finding coolant.. sounds all turbo related..

sourcandy · 11-03-2009, 01:13 PM

I was told the other night when I got on it a little I had some white smoke come out my tail pipe. Doesn't happen during driveway revs. I know I have a valve making some noise, figure maybe burning a little oil from that under load?

changed oil yesterday, coolant, new timing belt. (didn't notice any leaks) I'll have to wait for a friend to drive behind me again as I don't notice it from my mirrors.

RSblood · 11-03-2009, 01:34 PM

It really only does it under a load (driving). It might burn a little oil If I rev it a lot standing still, but I havent tried that.

It's mainly oil, but sometimes it's a cloud of white smoke (coolant).
It cam through and into the cabin earlier today, a bit of white smoke that smelled pretty bad, but not like oil.

It's kinda a mix of the two, oil and coolant. I've found that it's mainly oil at lower speeds/revs at WOT, and that its more white smoke at higher rpms, WOT.

I'm going to assume it's the turbo, but I'm also worried about other hidden problems that may have the same symptoms...

crash#2 · 11-03-2009, 10:32 PM

go to the dealer and have them clean out you pcv or take it out and take it to them.

69subaru360 · 11-04-2009, 01:02 AM

FWIW, I have rerouted the breather hoses installing inlets and it has not caused oil burning problems.

RSblood · 11-04-2009, 11:47 AM

Should I just replace the PCV valve?

The part was pretty cheap to replace when I was NA, I can't imagine it being that much more for a turbo model.

Aaron'z 2.5RS · 11-04-2009, 12:56 PM

The PCV shouldn't cause this... you can pull it though, shake it a little, if it rattles/slides smooth, it's fine... it's nothing more than a weight suspended from each end with springs.. under load of vacuum/boost it moves and seals the valve... while not under load the springs out to the "open/center" position, allowing flow past it....

You can clean it with brake cleaner, just let it dry or blow it out before you put it back on the car..

I bet your turbo is going.... I recently dropped my DP and had a look at mine... it's pretty bad..

Nicklz · 11-04-2009, 02:42 PM

I always thought if it smoked AFTER boost (as in boost, off throttle then smoke) it was a ring or ringlands? But that should just be blue smoke....

RSblood · 11-04-2009, 02:47 PM

It's mainly just blue smoke now?

It changes from day to day.

DriftIt · 11-04-2009, 11:09 PM

You might check into the TGV. If that isn't working properly, it's possible to run rich and smoke really bad. Happened to me when I did an up-pipe and accidentally cracked the TGV sensor that sits right in front of the turbo. Does it throw a CEL?

woodys77 · 11-04-2009, 11:13 PM

like this?

YouTube- My STI with FP green dynoing at Gotham Racing

*edit- this isnt my car but i found it on youtube, it seems to be what your talking about.

RSblood · 11-05-2009, 12:08 AM

^^^ Dead on

I've noticed smoke rising from the hood also, not sure why?

What was wrong with your car, and what did you do to fix it?

woodys77 · 11-06-2009, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSblood

^^^ Dead on

I've noticed smoke rising from the hood also, not sure why?

What was wrong with your car, and what did you do to fix it?

HAHA no its not my car i just remembered seeing it on you tube and thought of your situation. it says in the notes that he had bad turbo seals.

Nicklz · 11-06-2009, 02:35 AM

I could be wrong but I'd bet my last buck that the car in the video (and the OP's car) have a bad ring or ringland.
It's never happened to me but I've always heard it described that way.

Compression test and preferably a leakdown is in order.

relliMmoT · 11-06-2009, 05:31 AM

Keep track of your dipstick. Fill it to a certain marked amount PERFECTLY. A week later check it.
Do this the morning after the car sits both times to ensure the oil is at the same settling/temperature to ensure linearity of test conditions.
Do a compression and leakdown test. - If during the leakdown check you lose pressure out of tolerance squirt oil on the piston rings --Your going to have to rig up some way to do this, ensuring you get oil all the way around the ring as your engine is subject to GRAVITY and your piston is a round object on its side (car skewer maybe? haha)- If your leakdown checks better with oil around the piston rings its a bad valve seal.
Open your oil fill cap with the engine running- if its airflow as usual your good.. If you have RAW EXHAUST coming out of the fill tube and oil sputtering up if its baaad then you know your in on some big problems..
Take off your downpipe, is there a lotve oil in it? Turbo seals.
Do you have a catch can- is it full?

Try buying a new gasket for the idle air control value (mounted to the top of the throttle body. Get the gasket (the one thats in there will stretch out as soon as you pull it out). Clean out the idle air control valve while its off.. Gasoline, alcohol, purple power, whatever. Those gasket can easily go bad! They do more often then they should. Its all there is sealing between 1 bar of boiling hot coolant and the constantly changing intake pressures.

Keep searching! I hope you dont have a bad head gasket turbo or ring!

woodys77 · 11-07-2009, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by relliMmoT

Keep track of your dipstick. Fill it to a certain marked amount PERFECTLY. A week later check it.
Do this the morning after the car sits both times to ensure the oil is at the same settling/temperature to ensure linearity of test conditions.
Do a compression and leakdown test. - If during the leakdown check you lose pressure out of tolerance squirt oil on the piston rings --Your going to have to rig up some way to do this, ensuring you get oil all the way around the ring as your engine is subject to GRAVITY and your piston is a round object on its side (car skewer maybe? haha)- If your leakdown checks better with oil around the piston rings then its worn rings.
Open your oil fill cap with the engine running- if its airflow as usual your good.. If you have RAW EXHAUST coming out of the fill tube and oil sputtering up if its baaad then you know your in on some big problems..
Take off your downpipe, is there a lotve oil in it? Turbo seals.
Do you have a catch can- is it full?

Try buying a new gasket for the idle air control value (mounted to the top of the throttle body. Get the gasket (the one thats in there will stretch out as soon as you pull it out). Clean out the idle air control valve while its off.. Gasoline, alcohol, purple power, whatever. Those gasket can easily go bad! They do more often then they should. Its all there is sealing between 1 bar of boiling hot coolant and the constantly changing intake pressures.

Keep searching! I hope you dont have a bad head gasket turbo or ring!

fixed

relliMmoT · 11-07-2009, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodys77

fixed

Brain fart yeeah!
I probably meant to type "if it checks the same with oil around rings its valve seals"

RSblood · 11-09-2009, 02:45 PM

It must be the turbo seals, theres no oil sputtering out of the oil filler neck, just normal suction/breathing? hard to tell. It's fine though.

Tightened the oil return/inlet lines to the turbo, check for all intake leaks, made sure fittings were tight.
There was no sign of oil dripping on the hotside of the turbo, or in the downpipe..? Normal oil in the y-pipe/throttle body, only a little bit, not nearly enough to even make a small cloud of smoke.

Any other ideas? Don't rely have the money to do a full leakdown test/compression test.

Aaron'z 2.5RS · 11-09-2009, 08:44 PM

I doubt you would actually SEE oil inside of the DP... Like I said, I recently dropped mine and while it wasn't "wet" with oil, it did feel "greasy"

I would think any liquid oil would quickly burn up..

11-02-2009, 12:23 PM	#1
RSblood Scooby Specialist Member#: 87778 Join Date: May 2005 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Needham, MA Vehicle: 2000 Impreza "WRSX" Aspen White	Smoke out that back AFTER Boost Recently installed a Perrin Turbo inlect because my OEM inlet was broken. Had to do some funky rerouting of the PCV/crank case hose. Did it right according to Perrins instructions. Made sure there were no vacuum leaks, all connections were a tight fit. *I also didn't get tuned for this, because I figured that this small of an upgrade wouldn't affect it. Perrins charts show that the test car was not tuned when adding this part. Now whenever I hit boost (EWG opens up fully), a cloud of smoke will pour out the back usually 1-2 seconds after lifting off (deceleration). Sometimes the smoke is grey and white, sometimes blue, sometimes a mix of both. I've heard similar problems where a catch can could be used to solve this problem. Also found that it could be the turbo seals. I have noticed a little coolant laying around the turbo Center section. Is it possible that this problem could have been caused by adding the Perrin turbo inlet? I've noticed small issues with the turbo before, but have never found smoke pouring out the back like this before. How bad is this? Should I avoid boost at all? I've been driving around like a granny because I'm nervous about this, sometimes I'll open it up and hit boost to see if it's still there, and it usually leaves a cloud behind me, I'm sure the driver behind me isnt too happy about this either. I'm just confused whether it's just bad timing with the turbo being on it's way out, or if it's caused by the new rerouting of the PCV hose. MODS: -Custom short ram intake (its fine) -Perrin Turbo inlet -Invidia EL headers/up pipe -VF22 turbo -Tial 38mm EWG -Ebay top mount and y pipe -Grimmspeed EBCS Any info/help would be great. Thanks in advance. -Matt

11-06-2009, 02:35 AM	#16
Nicklz Scooby Specialist Member#: 94096 Join Date: Aug 2005 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Columbus & Wheeling Vehicle: 2003 WRX WRB	I could be wrong but I'd bet my last buck that the car in the video (and the OP's car) have a bad ring or ringland. It's never happened to me but I've always heard it described that way. Compression test and preferably a leakdown is in order. Last edited by Nicklz; 11-06-2009 at 02:42 AM.

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11-03-2009, 11:08 AM	#2
RSblood Scooby Specialist Member#: 87778 Join Date: May 2005 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Needham, MA Vehicle: 2000 Impreza "WRSX" Aspen White	Anyone? It usually only happens at WOT, regardless of RPM I found out this morning.

11-03-2009, 01:05 PM	#3
Aaron'z 2.5RS Scooby Guru Member#: 1026 Join Date: Mar 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Hickigan Vehicle: 00' RS/WRX Stg4 Mindless Self Indulgence	Can you reproduce it in the driveway? revving from under the hood? If so, what's the cloud smell like?? Oil, coolant or fuel? I'm having a semi-similar issue with my car... semi-similar set-up... My VF22 is on the way out... I can feel shaft play by hand... not good... I'm over fueling to the point of fouling plugs, and I can't seem to figure it out... but it gives me some wikkid vapors out the back... Really, it comes down to what you smell out the pipe, that would be where I would start... if it smells like oil, i'd consider the turbo seals, espically considering what you've said about finding coolant.. sounds all turbo related..

11-03-2009, 01:13 PM	#4
sourcandy Scooby Newbie Member#: 212410 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Houston, TX	I was told the other night when I got on it a little I had some white smoke come out my tail pipe. Doesn't happen during driveway revs. I know I have a valve making some noise, figure maybe burning a little oil from that under load? changed oil yesterday, coolant, new timing belt. (didn't notice any leaks) I'll have to wait for a friend to drive behind me again as I don't notice it from my mirrors.

11-03-2009, 01:34 PM	#5
RSblood Scooby Specialist Member#: 87778 Join Date: May 2005 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Needham, MA Vehicle: 2000 Impreza "WRSX" Aspen White	It really only does it under a load (driving). It might burn a little oil If I rev it a lot standing still, but I havent tried that. It's mainly oil, but sometimes it's a cloud of white smoke (coolant). It cam through and into the cabin earlier today, a bit of white smoke that smelled pretty bad, but not like oil. It's kinda a mix of the two, oil and coolant. I've found that it's mainly oil at lower speeds/revs at WOT, and that its more white smoke at higher rpms, WOT. I'm going to assume it's the turbo, but I'm also worried about other hidden problems that may have the same symptoms...

11-03-2009, 10:32 PM	#6
crash#2 Scooby Newbie Member#: 112128 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: atl ga Vehicle: 2002 wrx sedona red pearl	go to the dealer and have them clean out you pcv or take it out and take it to them.

11-04-2009, 01:02 AM	#7
69subaru360 Scooby Specialist Member#: 159682 Join Date: Sep 2007 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Fleetwood, PA Vehicle: 2002 WRX wagon 1969 360	FWIW, I have rerouted the breather hoses installing inlets and it has not caused oil burning problems.

11-04-2009, 11:47 AM	#8
RSblood Scooby Specialist Member#: 87778 Join Date: May 2005 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Needham, MA Vehicle: 2000 Impreza "WRSX" Aspen White	Should I just replace the PCV valve? The part was pretty cheap to replace when I was NA, I can't imagine it being that much more for a turbo model.

11-04-2009, 12:56 PM	#9
Aaron'z 2.5RS Scooby Guru Member#: 1026 Join Date: Mar 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Hickigan Vehicle: 00' RS/WRX Stg4 Mindless Self Indulgence	The PCV shouldn't cause this... you can pull it though, shake it a little, if it rattles/slides smooth, it's fine... it's nothing more than a weight suspended from each end with springs.. under load of vacuum/boost it moves and seals the valve... while not under load the springs out to the "open/center" position, allowing flow past it.... You can clean it with brake cleaner, just let it dry or blow it out before you put it back on the car.. I bet your turbo is going.... I recently dropped my DP and had a look at mine... it's pretty bad..

11-04-2009, 02:42 PM	#10
Nicklz Scooby Specialist Member#: 94096 Join Date: Aug 2005 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Columbus & Wheeling Vehicle: 2003 WRX WRB	I always thought if it smoked AFTER boost (as in boost, off throttle then smoke) it was a ring or ringlands? But that should just be blue smoke....

11-04-2009, 02:47 PM	#11
RSblood Scooby Specialist Member#: 87778 Join Date: May 2005 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Needham, MA Vehicle: 2000 Impreza "WRSX" Aspen White	It's mainly just blue smoke now? It changes from day to day.

11-04-2009, 11:09 PM	#12
DriftIt Scooby Newbie Member#: 137388 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: NorCal Vehicle: '05 WRX Cobb AP Stg 2	You might check into the TGV. If that isn't working properly, it's possible to run rich and smoke really bad. Happened to me when I did an up-pipe and accidentally cracked the TGV sensor that sits right in front of the turbo. Does it throw a CEL?

11-05-2009, 12:08 AM	#14
RSblood Scooby Specialist Member#: 87778 Join Date: May 2005 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Needham, MA Vehicle: 2000 Impreza "WRSX" Aspen White	^^^ Dead on I've noticed smoke rising from the hood also, not sure why? What was wrong with your car, and what did you do to fix it?

11-06-2009, 05:31 AM	#17
relliMmoT Scooby Newbie Member#: 206931 Join Date: Mar 2009 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Shreveport, LA Vehicle: 2004 WRX WAGON 5MT Stg4 Java Black Pearl	Keep track of your dipstick. Fill it to a certain marked amount PERFECTLY. A week later check it. Do this the morning after the car sits both times to ensure the oil is at the same settling/temperature to ensure linearity of test conditions. Do a compression and leakdown test. - If during the leakdown check you lose pressure out of tolerance squirt oil on the piston rings --Your going to have to rig up some way to do this, ensuring you get oil all the way around the ring as your engine is subject to GRAVITY and your piston is a round object on its side (car skewer maybe? haha)- If your leakdown checks better with oil around the piston rings its a bad valve seal. Open your oil fill cap with the engine running- if its airflow as usual your good.. If you have RAW EXHAUST coming out of the fill tube and oil sputtering up if its baaad then you know your in on some big problems.. Take off your downpipe, is there a lotve oil in it? Turbo seals. Do you have a catch can- is it full? Try buying a new gasket for the idle air control value (mounted to the top of the throttle body. Get the gasket (the one thats in there will stretch out as soon as you pull it out). Clean out the idle air control valve while its off.. Gasoline, alcohol, purple power, whatever. Those gasket can easily go bad! They do more often then they should. Its all there is sealing between 1 bar of boiling hot coolant and the constantly changing intake pressures. Keep searching! I hope you dont have a bad head gasket turbo or ring!

11-09-2009, 02:45 PM	#20
RSblood Scooby Specialist Member#: 87778 Join Date: May 2005 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Needham, MA Vehicle: 2000 Impreza "WRSX" Aspen White	It must be the turbo seals, theres no oil sputtering out of the oil filler neck, just normal suction/breathing? hard to tell. It's fine though. Tightened the oil return/inlet lines to the turbo, check for all intake leaks, made sure fittings were tight. There was no sign of oil dripping on the hotside of the turbo, or in the downpipe..? Normal oil in the y-pipe/throttle body, only a little bit, not nearly enough to even make a small cloud of smoke. Any other ideas? Don't rely have the money to do a full leakdown test/compression test.

11-09-2009, 08:44 PM	#21
Aaron'z 2.5RS Scooby Guru Member#: 1026 Join Date: Mar 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Hickigan Vehicle: 00' RS/WRX Stg4 Mindless Self Indulgence	I doubt you would actually SEE oil inside of the DP... Like I said, I recently dropped mine and while it wasn't "wet" with oil, it did feel "greasy" I would think any liquid oil would quickly burn up..