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Old 02-03-2010, 02:58 PM   #26
sigurd
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I disagree.

I was unhappy with my moton's and I got some bc's now my lap times are 14 seconds faster. Plus the girls like me more now.
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Old 02-03-2010, 03:03 PM   #27
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ok i'm gonna show my newbness here...

so it's bad for the suspension to not drop when the car is raised up?

i thought this was inevitable with a sportier suspension?
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Old 02-03-2010, 03:12 PM   #28
MyOtherCarIsAMudkip
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If you guys need pictures, my wagon's completely stock suspension-wise... unless you guys gifted me a new set of coilovers? Just get the rest of the staff to sit in the engine bay and simulate the missing weight.
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Old 02-03-2010, 03:27 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper1rfa View Post
Holy red neck body work!! nicely done... hey chicks dig scars right!... right?
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Old 02-03-2010, 04:03 PM   #30
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the front is worse.


Quote:
so it's bad for the suspension to not drop when the car is raised up?
It just shows a lack of travel. Travel is good. It's not a problem on buttery smooth roads, but those don't actually exist. Even tracks are generally pretty bumpy.

Also, without travel the bumpstops are going to be doing most of the work, and that's harder to control. Uncontrolled suspension motion leads to an unpredictable car.

If you watch the video posted above, you'll see just how much travel is used just cruising down a regular road. Basically, the suspension is there for a reason.

Last edited by sniper1rfa; 02-03-2010 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 02-03-2010, 04:05 PM   #31
ProdriveDreams
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post it! I wanna see it in all it's shade-tree glory
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Old 02-03-2010, 04:23 PM   #32
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My car has a goofy smile.
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:16 PM   #33
subaru3169
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Oh My God
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Old 02-03-2010, 08:59 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by sniper1rfa View Post



My car has a goofy smile.
Hahaha love it.
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Old 02-03-2010, 10:06 PM   #35
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no way, your a hater! LOL!
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Old 02-03-2010, 10:53 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
I don't think we have any here rolling on stock dampers. We MIGHT have one in the back, but I'll have to check
We should shoot mine tomorrow. The droop limit on mine comes from the D-Specs so that'll be a pretty good example of what a stock-like setup would do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daishi00 View Post
Guys, post the video in this thread of the suspension travel on Ty's car when he was driving. Those were relatively smooth roads so it will be very easy to see why both bump and droop are needed.
Clint reposted it already, I'm thinking of another video clip I have that might be even more fun. I'll go try to find it shortly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heider View Post
so it's bad for the suspension to not drop when the car is raised up?
Right, the ability of the suspension to droop when the car is jacked up is also the ability of the suspension to keep the tire on the road when you run over a dip in the road. If you can't keep the tire on the road, you're slow no matter how cool you think the ride height looks.

Quote:
i thought this was inevitable with a sportier suspension?
Nope. It's just easier to design and build a suspension with little to no travel. You have to work harder to maintain good travel.

Look at the Lotus Evora. Every single review has been a cargasm of wonder over how awesome it drives in the real world since it has sooooo much suspension travel.
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Old 02-04-2010, 09:36 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
Nope. It's just easier to design and build a suspension with little to no travel. You have to work harder to maintain good travel.
what's an example of coilovers available for the wrx which maintain good travel? there are so many different choices; it's hard to sort through the BS.
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:00 AM   #38
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AST, KW. Those are the only two I know of as those are the only two that actually post the specs. Most coilover manfacturers keep all information hidden...wonder why.

Tony
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:05 AM   #39
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The Ground Control Koni setup has good travel.

-Duncan
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:38 AM   #40
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TIC, Is there any chance you could get a video of a car being driven with cheap coilovers on the same road as williaty's car? I think it would be interesting to see.
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:43 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cueball89 View Post
TIC, Is there any chance you could get a video of a car being driven with cheap coilovers on the same road as williaty's car? I think it would be interesting to see.
The road is up at my house, which is 2 hours from TiC. It's a little hard to get a customer car that far away
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Old 02-04-2010, 11:30 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
The road is up at my house, which is 2 hours from TiC. It's a little hard to get a customer car that far away
Damn, I guess I can settle for a video of cheap coilovers on any road then.
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Old 02-04-2010, 11:41 AM   #43
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I'm just curious... how much does droop actually matter? Obviously driving on a normal road you're not using the full travel of stock suspension. Yet, those cheap coils clearly don't droop enough.
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Old 02-04-2010, 11:49 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JVD View Post
I'm just curious... how much does droop actually matter? Obviously driving on a normal road you're not using the full travel of stock suspension. Yet, those cheap coils clearly don't droop enough.
Did you look at that video of mine? It's a normal road, it's got as much travel as stock, and it's using all of it. Obviously, all the stock travel is actually needed.
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Old 02-04-2010, 12:14 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cueball89 View Post
Damn, I guess I can settle for a video of cheap coilovers on any road then.
What would be more interesting is a video showing a long travel damper vs. a short travel damper.

I know of one such video where you can see one car bouncing and the other not so much. There are two problems with this though. 1) they are difference chassis, and 2) they have different spring rates and even brands.

Therefore it's not an apples to apples comparison.
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:11 PM   #46
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But with stiff spring rates, how would you get that much droop? Wouldn't the car just be raised up high? I can understand to use a soft helper spring, but if the spring rates are stiff, wouldn't the long travel not be used anyways?

The other way is to have a spring that is short and flops around if the suspension is fully extended right? But that doesn't help the situation since there is no spring rate...

So how do you get long travel with stiff rates? And how would you make all that travel happen anyways?
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:35 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by littlewhitewagon View Post
But with stiff spring rates, how would you get that much droop? Wouldn't the car just be raised up high? I can understand to use a soft helper spring, but if the spring rates are stiff, wouldn't the long travel not be used anyways?
You're assuming a stiffer spring is actually better. That's not always true. You want to run as stiff a spring as your tires require and no stiffer.

Quote:
The other way is to have a spring that is short and flops around if the suspension is fully extended right? But that doesn't help the situation since there is no spring rate...
That's actually really dangerous. If the suspension goes to full droop in a situation like that, there's no way to be sure you'll actually seat the spring properly as it re-compresses. Baaaad news.

Quote:
So how do you get long travel with stiff rates? And how would you make all that travel happen anyways?
Long travel with stiffer springs just means you can soak up bigger bumps.
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:38 PM   #48
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Even running 10k 9k springs on our race car we still get 2"+ of compression during turns. Don't think that this is bad though.

Tony
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:42 PM   #49
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I run 245/40R17 or 245/35R17 Toyo R888 or Toyo R1R on my wagon. They are fitted on some 17x9 +45 Rays wheels. I'm currently on 8kg/6kg spring rates and I have a bit more droop than the pictures, but not lots more. I like the way the car turns, feels confident, and easy to control for me. I don't know if the ultimate grip is there, but it feels ok so far.

How stiff do I need? Am I too stiff already? I have a Cusco adjustable rear bar on full stiffness.

Long travel plus stiff springs means higher ride height right? I have to admit that appearance is important to me since the car is also a DD.

I am on JIC FLT-A2 now and although people always complain about their ride quality, I think they are decent on the track. Yes, they are a bit bumpy just driving around.
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:42 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlewhitewagon View Post
But with stiff spring rates, how would you get that much droop? Wouldn't the car just be raised up high? I can understand to use a soft helper spring, but if the spring rates are stiff, wouldn't the long travel not be used anyways?

The other way is to have a spring that is short and flops around if the suspension is fully extended right? But that doesn't help the situation since there is no spring rate...

So how do you get long travel with stiff rates? And how would you make all that travel happen anyways?
A shorter stiff spring with a helper spring will keep the main spring seated at full droop.

But speaking generally for a track car, you don't need really super long bump travel with stiff rates anyway. Droop is nice. It's still an issue that must be considered though, and more travel is better than too little travel IMO.

- andrew

Last edited by AndyRoo; 02-04-2010 at 02:48 PM.
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