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Old 02-03-2010, 05:42 PM   #1
White out
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Default US military is phasing out HMMWV, March 2010

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Military will only buy enough Humvess to replenish losses

The U.S. military for years has used the Humvee as its “go to” vehicle for numerous tasks from general transportation to combat operations. The problem with using the Humvee in some situations is that the vehicle was not designed from the outset to be an armored vehicle leading to survivability issues in combat situations (i.e., roadside bombings).

In September 2007, word surfaced that the Army was testing Humvee's that used composite body panels to give the vehicle improved survivability on the modern battlefield. These new Humvees never saw deployment though. Rather than try to modify the existing Humvee design the U.S. military is instead abandoning the vehicle for a new design.

Defense Tech reports that in the Pentagon's budget for 2010 only $1 million is allotted to replace vehicles lost to accident and war. There will be no purchases above the number required to replenish stocks. The South Bend Tribune reports that the Army will buy 2,600 additional Humvees that are being built at the AM General plant now and will not be buying more after March. There is over a billion dollars devoted to maintaining the existing Humvee fleet in the Pentagon budget.

The vehicle believed to be replacing the Humvee is called the Joint Light Tactical Vehicle or JLTV. The JLTV is a new vehicle that is being developed by multiple branches of the military including the Army and Marine Corps. The JLTV has been designed from the outset with multiple variants to meet the needs of various missions.

Some of the variants will be armored to help soldiers survive roadside bombings and small arms fire during combat operations. In all five versions are expected including infantry combat vehicles and non-armored versions for use as ambulances, utility vehicles, and general purpose mobility. The JLTV has a higher payload than the Humvee as well. Six soldiers can ride in the JLTV in some versions with other versions carrying less depending on how it is outfitted.
Looks like the trucks will be around for a long time, just not many new ones for the US armed services. They just got the 6.5TD/4speed too.

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Old 02-03-2010, 05:48 PM   #2
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Not too surprised, now that Hummer's owned by China.
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Old 02-03-2010, 06:08 PM   #3
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are the military and civilian brands even related?
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Old 02-03-2010, 06:09 PM   #4
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No worries the next trucks will be automated and our boys will be safe sitting in a comfy secure room running patrol from their lap top.
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Old 02-03-2010, 07:21 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Siper2 View Post
Not too surprised, now that Hummer's owned by China.
Pretty sure the Humvee (military) is manufactured by AM General and has nothing to do with hummer (civilian) other then the name and the H1 (or what every they call them) looking similar.
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Old 02-03-2010, 07:29 PM   #6
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There's a smaller version of the MRAP that will probably replace the hummer, but it's not cheap. Just imagine this but smaller.

http://images.google.com/images?q=mr...N&hl=en&tab=wi

Last edited by jdmimprez; 02-03-2010 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 02-03-2010, 07:51 PM   #7
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the MRAP is the biggest piece the army has wasted its money on. Not maneuverable when trying to assault an objective, easy to roll, and an extremely stiff suspension. When it comes to maintence, its always in the shop, and never enough supplies to fix it. Only plus is the ability to obtain higher speeds than HUMVEE, and tough as nails.

Honestly I chose a HUMVEE over the MRAP all day long!
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Old 02-03-2010, 08:02 PM   #8
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Pretty sure the Humvee (military) is manufactured by AM General and has nothing to do with hummer (civilian) other then the name and the H1 (or what every they call them) looking similar.
Exactly.
'92-'01 Hummers are produced by AM General
'02-'06 H1s are produced by Hummer (GM)

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Old 02-03-2010, 10:36 PM   #9
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the MRAP is the biggest piece the army has wasted its money on. Not maneuverable when trying to assault an objective, easy to roll, and an extremely stiff suspension. When it comes to maintence, its always in the shop, and never enough supplies to fix it. Only plus is the ability to obtain higher speeds than HUMVEE, and tough as nails.

Honestly I chose a HUMVEE over the MRAP all day long!

yea they're easier to roll & a crap load heavier, but a lot of the troops seem to like the MRAP better. Unlike when the hummer (even w/ the armored kits) when the MRAP gets hit w/ something (RPG, road side bomb/IED...etc) the first layer of armor is designed to crack leaving the 2nd layer ok keeping everyone inside ALIVE, unlike the hummer that just blows up. Even the under side is protected the same way, but in the hummer you might as well be driving a Ford F-150.
One of the production managers came out and gave us a 2 day class on them. He said that a lot of navy guys & marines all say they would rather be in the MRAP if they were to get hit w/ something.
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:06 PM   #10
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Let's hope they want some Buffaloes or some Cheetahs - I have stock in Force Protection.
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Old 02-04-2010, 07:14 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by jdmimprez View Post
One of the production managers came out and gave us a 2 day class on them. He said that a lot of navy guys & marines all say they would rather be in the MRAP if they were to get hit w/ something.
Did you see your last point? If I was going to get hit I would like to be in an M1 abrams tank too, but that doesn't make them a good choice necessarily for troop transport. There are significant downsides to changing from a vehicle like the H1 to the MRAP. Though given the way the military operates now at least it may make sense.
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Old 02-04-2010, 07:27 AM   #12
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I cannot believe I am going to say this, but the military should have the first really useful hybrid powertrains. I mean if we can double or triple the mileage of our transports, it makes logistics much easier, and amount of fuel infrastructure could be vastly smaller, as could the support personnel. If there every was a good use for hybrids, it would be troop transport
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Old 02-04-2010, 08:32 AM   #13
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I cannot believe I am going to say this, but the military should have the first really useful hybrid powertrains. I mean if we can double or triple the mileage of our transports, it makes logistics much easier, and amount of fuel infrastructure could be vastly smaller, as could the support personnel. If there every was a good use for hybrids, it would be troop transport

Scrappy that is soo effin true, but the fact that oil is everywhere here (i'm in afghanistan at the moment) it will never happen. I can't tell how awesome it would be to not have to strap 6 fuel cans to the outside of our MRAPs. That space I could use for mortar and Carl G rounds. ( But really I would take an uparmored Chevy Suburban with a V10 if the unit i'm in would stop being pussies and buy them.)

Next let me say I smile when I read threads like this, you civilians really do care about us military folk, But then I cringe because most of you talk sideways out of your bums about things you have no idea about.

The MRAP vs. HMMV, since i've been blown up in both I can tell you the MRAP IS A MUCH NEEDED IMPROVEMENT. Sure the HMMV is smaller a wee bit faster, more nimble (somewhat) and easier to get in and out of, but after fighting from a MRAP and being ka-blamed in one (IED) I can say that the pros out weigh the cons. Both vehicles are loud and are ****ty infil platforms but for that you just get out and walk a few klicks. This war has turned to one thing and that is IEDs, so it serves its purpose well. Plus Its not as easy to roll as you think. Yesterday no **** i had it tilted so that the guy in the passenger seat was pretty much laying on me and i could look out the driver door window and see the ground as i was driving through some pretty hairy terrain. And an M1 tank would get raped by an IED. And for the record an RPG is still one of the most formiddable weapons out there about the only thing that can stop it is reactive armor and some of that good ol chicken wire.

Last edited by Fiddy82; 02-04-2010 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 02-04-2010, 08:49 AM   #14
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MRAP is under powered with the CAT C10 in it they should've used the C12 that is used in all the MTVR's. Newer model HMMWV's that posses the 6.5 turbo is definitly and improvement over the older 6.2's M998 models. My opinion ill take a MRAP any day.
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Old 02-04-2010, 08:50 AM   #15
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No worries the next trucks will be automated and our boys will be safe sitting in a comfy secure room running patrol from their lap top.
Ha thats what they said about the UAV when it came along, then they realized you can't win a conflict from a swivel chair.......Well they still haven't actually realized that.
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Old 02-04-2010, 08:53 AM   #16
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MRAP is under powered with the CAT C10 in it they should've used the C12 that is used in all the MTVR's. Newer model HMMWV's that posses the 6.5 turbo is definitly and improvement over the older 6.2's M998 models. My opinion ill take a MRAP any day.
totally true, but its biggest mechanical downfall is the extra retarded drivetrain. What a load of fail
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:30 AM   #17
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The Hummvee was freakishly large by itself though I guess it doesn't matter so much in open terrain. Is there anything smaller in the pipeline? I can't imagine the entire Army will only be in a position to function as minesweepers.
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Old 02-04-2010, 11:24 AM   #18
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The hmmwv was never designed to be an up-armored vehicle (even in the early 2000's it was rare to see a slantback, let alone an armored unit). But the vehicle had to be adapted to the current situation.

It is great for use in a military setting (think jeep of previous engagements), but it is not good as a vehicle for handling explosives. The design of the truck allows an ied explosion to go up through the center of the hull or the flat bottom under the passenger seats takes the full blow. Because of this design AMG couldn't change the truck to have a V-bottom for the best protection.

Also, the new up-armored turbo trucks weigh 8,000lbs+ over the original trucks. They are more than double the weight of my truck which has the same driveline (I have a lighter frame). My truck's 0-60 is in the 19 second range.

There is also no room under these trucks to add battery packs, etc.

These new vehicles are great (a much needed update), and it's sad to see the end of the HMMWV. However, it will continue to be produced for other countries, spare parts, and as of now $1M/year for the US government. The truck is currently in its 26th year of production (with a civilian run of 14 years) and will probably not wind down until it has passed the 30 year mark, if that.

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Old 02-04-2010, 11:28 AM   #19
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They already have alternative vehicles, but the need for small nimble vehicles is probably diminished given air units.

BTW
Quote:

The Army and Marine Corps are testing research vehicles that combine internal-combustion engines with battery power, a concept becoming popular in civilian cars such as the Toyota Prius.

The interest in hybrid power is part of a broad effort to find new vehicles better suited to fight in wars similar to the conflict in Iraq. In past wars, the military could race ahead and then stop safely behind the front lines to refuel. In Iraq, the war is fought throughout the country, and supply convoys are always at risk. Hybrid vehicles could reduce the number of convoys.

The Army is testing a half-dozen hybrid-electric versions of the Humvee chassis at various testing grounds in the USA.

The Marines are testing a different vehicle called the RST-V (Reconnaissance, Surveillance, Targeting Vehicle), a light truck built by General Dynamics that has an electric motor at each wheel hub.

Though the hub drives have yet to prove they can be durable enough, their design could mean added safety for troops. A motor at each wheel could let the vehicle move even if one wheel is destroyed. Eliminating heavy driveshafts and other components can remove the hazard that occurs when they become projectiles after a vehicle hits a mine or bomb.

General Dynamics' spokesman Pete Keating said the company wants to test the RST-V in Iraq this year, although it hasn't worked out the details with the Marines.

Marine Col. Clarke Lethin, who oversees requirements for future vehicles at the Marine base in Quantico, Va., said hybrids could help the military achieve increased fuel economy. Other potential military advantages include:

•Near-silent operation. The vehicles can operate on battery alone, at least slowly, when troops don't want engine noise giving away their position.

•A source of electricity. Instead of towing generators that provide electricity for field command posts, the rechargeable batteries in hybrid vehicles could generate that power. Hybrid batteries are recharged while the vehicle is running off its fuel source.

•Acceleration. Army testing last year showed the hybrids were faster than standard Humvees for short bursts of speed.
So they are well aware of the hybrid thing
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Old 02-04-2010, 12:16 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White out View Post
The hmmwv was never designed to be an up-armored vehicle (even in the early 2000's it was rare to see a slantback, let alone an armored unit). But the vehicle had to be adapted to the current situation.

It is great for use in a military setting (think jeep of previous engagements), but it is not good as a vehicle for handling explosives. The design of the truck allows an ied explosion to go up through the center of the hull or the flat bottom under the passenger seats takes the full blow. Because of this design AMG couldn't change the truck to have a V-bottom for the best protection.

Also, the new up-armored turbo trucks weigh 8,000lbs+ over the original trucks. They are more than double the weight of my truck which has the same driveline (I have a lighter frame). My truck's 0-60 is in the 19 second range.

There is also no room under these trucks to add battery packs, etc.

These new vehicles are great (a much needed update), and it's sad to see the end of the HMMWV. However, it will continue to be produced for other countries, spare parts, and as of now $1M/year for the US government. The truck is currently in its 26th year of production (with a civilian run of 14 years) and will probably not wind down until it has passed the 30 year mark, if that.

Nick
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:25 PM   #21
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totally true, but its biggest mechanical downfall is the extra retarded drivetrain. What a load of fail
Yea the drivetrain does blow, not to mention we've had alot of front shackles bend or even break due to off road excursions and even managed to bend an axle from time to time..LOL. When we first got'em our unit wanted to give'em a good shake down so we did I thought the Force Protection Tech rep was gonna poop himself...LOL
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Old 02-04-2010, 06:53 PM   #22
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are the military and civilian brands even related?

Kind of but not really, I may be wrong tho.
I think they don't use anything but AM General trucks not H1 by GM

Fail me for not seeing this addressed already
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Old 02-04-2010, 07:09 PM   #23
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whatevr keeps our troops safer I am all for
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Old 02-04-2010, 07:11 PM   #24
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Determination of HMVEE vs MRAP should depend on terrain. Patrollin through cities and on the back roads next to canals is much easier for HUMVEES. The MRAPS are amazing if you are only conducting convoy security. I have had the privlage of using both vehicles in a multitude of operations and I am simply not impressed. I roll over into a canal and you just lost an entire squad.
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Old 02-04-2010, 07:19 PM   #25
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All of the military trucks are AM General. AM General even bought the design for the engines when GM stopped production and moved to the duramax for their own products. When GM bought the Hummer brand they also bought a license to build the H1 since it uses the exact same chassis as the military version.
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