Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday October 21, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
Click here to visit TireRack
Brakes & Suspension Forum sponsored by The Tire Rack

Losing traction? Need new tires?
Click here to visit the NASIOC Upgrade Garage...
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Brakes, Steering & Suspension

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-14-2010, 03:35 PM   #251
Daishi00
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 78952
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: BSG junkie
Vehicle:
2005 WRX
CGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JVD View Post
Ugh...

So many members are now going to have nightmares of nerds laughing at a computer monitor because they don't have enough droop on their cheap coils to get the fastest lap time driving to get groceries.
Nice job proving his point
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Daishi00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 05:22 PM   #252
sigurd
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 128721
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: TN
Vehicle:
2002 impreza WRX
psm

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daishi00 View Post
Nice job proving his point
Im guessing you attended nerd fest 2010?
sigurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 05:31 PM   #253
JMS Landshark
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 48773
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
Vehicle:
2004 TiC WRX
also '99 BMW M Roadster

Default

Its funny how everyone equates that it has to save a fraction of a second to be a legitimate point about a street driven suspension. That's not the point. The original post was a simple point about the benefits of a properly designed suspension. The point WAS NOT that everyone should buy $3k coilovers. For the price of the cheaper coilovers, a nice spring/shock combo can be had to give the same performance and more travel.

Many in here are still just closed minded and only bringing up arguments that make them feel better about what they bought.
JMS Landshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 05:34 PM   #254
sigurd
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 128721
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: TN
Vehicle:
2002 impreza WRX
psm

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMS Landshark View Post
Its funny how everyone equates that it has to save a fraction of a second to be a legitimate point about a street driven suspension. That's not the point. The original post was a simple point about the benefits of a properly designed suspension. The point WAS NOT that everyone should buy $3k coilovers. For the price of the cheaper coilovers, a nice spring/shock combo can be had to give the same performance and more travel.

Many in here are still just closed minded and only bringing up arguments that make them feel better about what they bought.
we get the point, but everytime someone throws out a reason that said point its retarded theyj ust come up with another tangent explaining it further and proving said fact more tardfull.
sigurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 06:31 PM   #255
Daishi00
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 78952
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: BSG junkie
Vehicle:
2005 WRX
CGM

Default

No, you don't get the point. If you did we wouldn't be having this discussion.

BTW Didn't realize to use one's brain was still considered something bad. You must be right out of highschool huh?
Daishi00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 06:40 PM   #256
williaty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 71092
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Delaware County, Ohio
Vehicle:
2005 2.5RS Wagon
Regal Blue Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daishi00 View Post
BTW Didn't realize to use one's brain was still considered something bad. You must be right out of highschool huh?
America=Idiocracy. Thought=Terrorism.


Didn't you know?
williaty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 06:43 PM   #257
Daishi00
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 78952
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: BSG junkie
Vehicle:
2005 WRX
CGM

Default

Truth!
Daishi00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 07:38 PM   #258
Turn in Concepts
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 93646
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
Many Track Records
Let us help you go fast!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjrutzky View Post
He does sell the improved ones. Ask me how I know

The following photos by Kyle Crawford:

High dollar AMS droop (stock pickup points)


My no budget droop (Element custom valving, does not add droop that I know of)


I guess you could say Ryan Gates is doing it wrong, but his trophies say that he's doing enough.
I wish I had saved the pic of our car hitting the same spot.

Even on a race car stiff is not always good. You guys should have seen all the cars at Englishtown this past year at the redline time attack. The stiff suspended cars (on really expensive "good" setups and cheap setups) that had little travel were litterally bouncing across the track in a couple of the turns.

Just pointing out that even on race cars, some travel is still good.

Tony
Turn in Concepts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 07:44 PM   #259
PleiadesSTi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 194132
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Indiana
Vehicle:
2009 WRX Sedan
SSM

Default

What I have learned.

1. Nothing about suspensions.
2. Opinions are like ********, everyone has one.
PleiadesSTi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 07:45 PM   #260
sigurd
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 128721
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: TN
Vehicle:
2002 impreza WRX
psm

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daishi00 View Post
No, you don't get the point. If you did we wouldn't be having this discussion.

BTW Didn't realize to use one's brain was still considered something bad. You must be right out of highschool huh?
Oh I use my brain for things that matter.

And no im in middle school. I am such an awesome driver that TN gave me my license early. I could have got it a year earlier but they said I needed more droop.
sigurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 07:51 PM   #261
antonch
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 170384
Join Date: Jan 2008
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: SF, CA
Vehicle:
2006 Sti
Black

Default

Does anyone know what the travel range of a stock STI strut is? It would be interesting to compare the travel of BC.
antonch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 07:52 PM   #262
Daishi00
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 78952
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: BSG junkie
Vehicle:
2005 WRX
CGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PleiadesSTi View Post
What I have learned.

1. Nothing about suspensions.
2. Opinions are like ********, everyone has one.
So you didn't actually bother to read this thread at all then huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sigurd View Post
Oh I use my brain for things that matter.

And no im in middle school. I am such an awesome driver that TN gave me my license early. I could have got it a year earlier but they said I needed more droop.
Proving my point as well. You're doing a great job of it!
Daishi00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 07:55 PM   #263
PleiadesSTi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 194132
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Indiana
Vehicle:
2009 WRX Sedan
SSM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daishi00 View Post
So you didn't actually bother to read this thread at all then huh?
I wouldn't know where to start believing who or what. I feel lost now.
PleiadesSTi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 08:02 PM   #264
Daishi00
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 78952
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: BSG junkie
Vehicle:
2005 WRX
CGM

Default

read the material presented and read up on suspension. You'll figure it out, but you gotta apply yourself. It's that using the brain part that throws many people off
Daishi00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 09:01 PM   #265
rjrutzky
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 30367
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: nashville, tn
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT
NASA SE PTB Champ

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daishi00 View Post
read the material presented and read up on suspension. You'll figure it out, but you gotta apply yourself. It's that using the brain part that throws many people off
It's not about figuring it out, it's about is the expensive stuff really worth it. We all GET how droop is beneficial, especially on rough surfaces like englishtown and potholed streets. It's the elitist tone that turn discussions like this into crap. This whole crapstorm started when you had to post your opinion of BC coilovers. Sure your coilovers may be better than mine. But at the end of the day, does it warrant the expense? How much prize money have you won on your droop a doop suspension. Let me answer that, same as the rest of us racing classes less than F1, zero. It's fine if you want to make posts explaining suspension, just don't belittle others for their choices which are probably made by factoring budget first and performance second.
rjrutzky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 09:08 PM   #266
williaty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 71092
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Delaware County, Ohio
Vehicle:
2005 2.5RS Wagon
Regal Blue Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjrutzky View Post
It's not about figuring it out, it's about is the expensive stuff really worth it. We all GET how droop is beneficial, especially on rough surfaces like englishtown and potholed streets. ... But at the end of the day, does it warrant the expense? It's fine if you want to make posts explaining suspension, just don't belittle others for their choices which are probably made by factoring budget first and performance second.
No, no, no, you're misunderstanding all of us! We're not giving you crap for spending less money, we're giving you crap for not getting the best stuff for your money that you can. In other words, it's cool that you only want to spend a grand on your springs and dampers. Hell, I didn't even spend that much on mine! The issue is that, if you're going to spend a grand, there's better ways to spend a grand than on cheap crap coilovers. The whole point of the many, many threads explaining why cheap crap coilovers are bad is that, to get the coilovers down to the sub-grand level, the designers had to cut a lot of corners to save money. For the same money, you can buy a spring and strut combo that cuts fewer corners and you'll be faster, and likely happier, with it.

Again, we're not trying to say that you have to spend more money (though I can see how the side-discussion in this thread about how much you'd have to spend if you wanted COs would muddy the waters), we're trying to say that, regardless of how much you're going to spend, you should get the best for your money that you can.
williaty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 09:44 PM   #267
rjrutzky
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 30367
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: nashville, tn
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT
NASA SE PTB Champ

Default

what do you have for less than a grand? All the spring and strut combos I looked at first were well over a grand and could not be valved for the spring rates I wanted
rjrutzky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 10:05 PM   #268
williaty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 71092
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Delaware County, Ohio
Vehicle:
2005 2.5RS Wagon
Regal Blue Pearl

Default

I spent $605 on my D-Specs and STi springs, got the rates and damping I wanted. I spent another $300 on camber plates. Came out to basically the same cost as cheap crap coilovers only with better quality and performance.
williaty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 11:10 PM   #269
sigurd
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 128721
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: TN
Vehicle:
2002 impreza WRX
psm

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
I spent $605 on my D-Specs and STi springs, got the rates and damping I wanted. I spent another $300 on camber plates. Came out to basically the same cost as cheap crap coilovers only with better quality and performance.
no you think you did.
sigurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 11:12 PM   #270
williaty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 71092
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Delaware County, Ohio
Vehicle:
2005 2.5RS Wagon
Regal Blue Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sigurd View Post
no you think you did.
I can prove both via suspension theory+calculus and via real world results that I did. That's enough to take it out of the realm of "think"
williaty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 11:27 PM   #271
rjrutzky
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 30367
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: nashville, tn
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT
NASA SE PTB Champ

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
I spent $605 on my D-Specs and STi springs, got the rates and damping I wanted. I spent another $300 on camber plates. Came out to basically the same cost as cheap crap coilovers only with better quality and performance.
yeah, um we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. you can go ahead and ease up on the crap comments too until you've driven my setup.
rjrutzky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 11:28 PM   #272
rjrutzky
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 30367
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: nashville, tn
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT
NASA SE PTB Champ

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
I can prove both via suspension theory+calculus and via real world results that I did. That's enough to take it out of the realm of "think"
make it so, skipper
rjrutzky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 11:28 PM   #273
williaty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 71092
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Delaware County, Ohio
Vehicle:
2005 2.5RS Wagon
Regal Blue Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjrutzky View Post
yeah, um we'll just have to agree to disagree on that. you can go ahead and ease up on the crap comments too until you've driven my setup.
What's your setup? There's a fair chance I've actually driven it.

You guys keep thinking I'm speaking just from theory. You keep forgetting I've ridden on just about everything and helped more people build suspensions than most shops have.
williaty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 11:45 PM   #274
rjrutzky
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 30367
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: nashville, tn
Vehicle:
2005 Legacy GT
NASA SE PTB Champ

Default

element bc 10k/10k
18 clicks from soft f 18 r iirc
whiteline sways
whiteline bjes
3300 lbs w/ driver
2.75 camber f 2 camber r

Do you need tire pyrometer test results or are ya good? they're in my car, but it's cold outside
rjrutzky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 12:00 AM   #275
williaty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 71092
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Delaware County, Ohio
Vehicle:
2005 2.5RS Wagon
Regal Blue Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjrutzky View Post
element bc 10k/10k
18 clicks from soft f 18 r iirc
whiteline sways
whiteline bjes
3300 lbs w/ driver
2.75 camber f 2 camber r
What diameter sways? Not that it really matters because I've driven both small and large with BCs on them. I've driven a number of cars with BC's on them and even experimented with them on mine for 2 days last summer (before they were installed into their real home) because I wanted to know what I was talking about.

So, anyway, in a direct apples-to-apples comparison on Bridgestone Potenza RE-01Rs, my setup was substantially more capable. Specifically, the BCs were significantly easier to upset mid-corner by bumps, divots, or changes in surface condition. There were many corners on my 50mi "shakedown" circuit where I couldn't brake as deep or carry as much speed into the corners because the BCs were causing the chassis to become upset and lose adhesion to the road.
williaty is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GC Kit and droop jeisen Brakes, Steering & Suspension 7 02-15-2010 08:18 AM
back to stock sale coilovers and other parts cheap mrguppy MAIC Private Classifieds 14 10-13-2008 02:46 PM
Springing options for coilovers - attacking stroke and droop travel Scooby921 Brakes, Steering & Suspension 7 05-10-2007 11:41 AM
FS: Brand New Coilovers and Shocks Cheap! wildchild Private 'For Sale' Classifieds 2 08-01-2004 07:46 PM
Cheap coilover kits on eBay B-Kerr Brakes, Steering & Suspension 11 05-31-2003 12:40 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.