Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday August 29, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > NASIOC Official News, Articles and Polls

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-15-2010, 12:03 PM   #1
ricochet
Driving Sports TV Staff
 
Member#: 15542
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Kirkland, WA
Vehicle:
1991 Legacy Sedan

Default An Education on Ice

An Education on Ice
Ryan Douthit vs. John Haugland in head-to-head Impreza action.
By Ryan Douthit, Driving Sports TV



Watch the video at drivingsports.com

There’s been some debate on the "YouTubes" regarding my ability to handle a car on ice. Recently, Subaru gave me an opportunity to put these critics to rest by reviewing my techniques with a bona-fide expert in the field.

My mentor would be none other than John Haugland, an instructor at the Norwegian Winter Rally School in Norway, where he has had such star pupils as Petter Solberg and Richard Burns, among others. Our classroom would be a custom-built ice-racing circuit, along with a set of various Subaru Impreza models.

Now, keep in mind, the techniques we’re covering today are specifically for competitive driving only. You really shouldn’t be yanking the handbrake as you enter the local school driveway. Not cool.

Let's get right to it. According to Haugland, the number one problem for drivers is braking. Too early, to late, too soft, too hard, these are all bad. Entering each corner with the correct speed is critical unlocking each corner’s ideal exit speed.

On cars like the Subaru STI, all cornering should be performed under power, where the front-wheels pull the car in-and-around the turn. This is done by dialing the DCCD to a manual, front-bias and disabling the VDC. Dial it back with too much rear-bias and the tail is going to come around too aggressively and send the car into a snow bank.

Of course, just entering a corner too hot can also result in a similar predicament as most cars will simply keep sliding forward: a situation I find myself in quite often while testing on snow and ice. For this, John suggested tapping the handbrake to assist in rotating the vehicle-- this has always been my personal favorite. (Note: unless you’re driving an STI, you will need to depress the clutch when pulling the handbrake, or you could damage your center differential.) Getting the car repositioned, I could then move back to power.

A more advanced technique is left-foot braking.

Though tricky in practice, it’s pretty simple to explain how it works: simply keep the throttle engaged and gently apply the left foot to the brake. This shifts weight to the front of the car, which gives the tires more bite while steering. As Haugland points out, most drivers don’t have enough sensitivity in their left feet to put this to good use without a lot of practice.
With the instruction portion out of the way, it was time to test what I had learned, to see if I was ready to graduate. For my final exam Subaru provided a pair of Impreza 2.5i’s. Me in the blue hatch, and Haugland in the white.

Off the line I ceded the first chicane, there was no way both our cars could fit side-by-side going through it. And, considering the man’s experience, I figured he’d be quicker off the line. He was, but he didn’t get too far ahead.
Through the first lap I was running a couple car-lengths behind when Haugland either made an error—which I consider unlikely—or he just let me pass on a wide corner to keep the race more entertaining.

I took this advantage and ran with it, I maintained my lead for the rest of lap two and the first half of the final lap, refusing to give him a passing opportunity. Then, in the penultimate corner, I entered too hot and pushed the corner wide. Haugland took advantage of my error—only we didn’t have quite enough space for both cars to fit. But what does that matter to an ex-WRC driver?

He made the car fit. And, coincidentally, took out my side-mirror and crumpled a few panels in the process. Maybe it was his way to remind me that I should have applied the brakes sooner in that corner?

We both charged to the finish, swapping paint as we entered the final turn.

I was victorious, but just barely. I’m pretty sure Haugland was being nice and giving me an advantage. But, I’ll take this win, thank-you-very-much.

With both of us laughing uncontrollably and surveying the damage to the Impreza, I asked Haugland he was just waiting for me to make a big mistake to make the pass? He replied, “I was pushing with everything I could. I saw the gap on the inside and just went for it.”

So does this mean I have potential to drive in the WRC? To this Haugland laughed and replied, “Oh, absolutely!”

Regarding the Imprezas damaged in the making of this film: they were water damaged cars that had a date with a crusher shortly after our adventure.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by ricochet; 03-15-2010 at 12:08 PM.
ricochet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 12:03 PM   #2
ricochet
Driving Sports TV Staff
 
Member#: 15542
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Kirkland, WA
Vehicle:
1991 Legacy Sedan

Default

ricochet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 12:23 PM   #3
02fastWRBLUE
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 52590
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: CO
Default

pretty cool!
02fastWRBLUE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 12:38 PM   #4
08GRSTi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 179806
Join Date: May 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
2008 Impreza STi
Lightning Red

Default

STi grille @ 5:20?
08GRSTi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 12:51 PM   #5
ricochet
Driving Sports TV Staff
 
Member#: 15542
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Kirkland, WA
Vehicle:
1991 Legacy Sedan

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 08GRSTi View Post
STi grille @ 5:20?
Good eye.
ricochet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 01:50 PM   #6
AtomicFrawg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 197739
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Lafayette,La
Vehicle:
2009 WRX
Obsidian black pearl

Default

OK wait. Did he start in a STI? And all the clips are of the WRX sedan? The last part is clear on the cars but the first part, what did he use the sedan wrx or the STI? Good video just confused.
AtomicFrawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 02:10 PM   #7
ricochet
Driving Sports TV Staff
 
Member#: 15542
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Kirkland, WA
Vehicle:
1991 Legacy Sedan

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicFrawg View Post
OK wait. Did he start in a STI? And all the clips are of the WRX sedan? The last part is clear on the cars but the first part, what did he use the sedan wrx or the STI? Good video just confused.
Thought about going into that, but figured it wasn't really necessary for the narrative (and only NASIOC guys would notice, anyhow.)

We actually started the instruction portion of the day in a WRX then moved into the STI.
ricochet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 02:22 PM   #8
AtomicFrawg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 197739
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Lafayette,La
Vehicle:
2009 WRX
Obsidian black pearl

Default

hehe OK =)
AtomicFrawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 03:01 PM   #9
801_STi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 200756
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: UT
Vehicle:
07 yellow clearbra
swp sti "Pearl"

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricochet View Post

On cars like the Subaru STI, all cornering should be performed under power, where the front-wheels pull the car in-and-around the turn. This is done by dialing the DCCD to a manual, front-bias and disabling the VDC. Dial it back with too much rear-bias and the tail is going to come around too aggressively and send the car into a snow bank.
everyone seems to think this is what the DCCD does. this is incorrect.

the DCCD determines the amount of lock in the differential between the front and rear wheels. when the DCCD is in full lock the front and rear wheels must all spin at the same speed. when the DCCD is fully unlocked all the wheels can spin at different speeds.

just thought id clear that up. but that is still awesome none the less.
801_STi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 04:34 PM   #10
Deuce Cam
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 130444
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Chandler
Vehicle:
'85 AE86 GTS

Default

^^That's pretty much how it works, but the dccd can never be 100% locked or unlocked (open), at least on '06+ STI's. However, I'm almost certain that the dccd in the 04-05 models allow a fully open diff in manual mode - due to the fact that it's 100% electromagnetically controlled (i.e. no mechanical helper lsd to intervene like on the late models).
Deuce Cam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 09:08 PM   #11
801_STi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 200756
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: UT
Vehicle:
07 yellow clearbra
swp sti "Pearl"

Default

yeah i think its 90/10 on 04/05 and 60/40 06 07 not sure though
801_STi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 10:24 PM   #12
Back Road Runner
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 60082
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minnesota
Vehicle:
2004 Forester STI
Silver

Default

Must have missed the debate.

Anywho, it looked like fun. I like the body panel nomming snow banks. I enjoy that kind of surface, good mix to where you need to read the surface but also enough grip so you're still having fun and not putting around at 5mph-10mph. It's hard for me to consider it ice driving unless it's on a lake though. Maybe they should have hosed the whole course down before hand. Then again, pure ice is easier to drive on then that type of surface as ice alone is very consistent and predictable. It just would have been an insanely slow race unless you guys were running studs or WS60s or something.

What tires were used for the exhibition?
Back Road Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 11:16 PM   #13
R L Newb
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 185318
Join Date: Jul 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Detroit-ish
Vehicle:
06 AW STi
13 LR BRZ

Default

looks like a blast!
Cheers on the PA t-shirt, don't mess with the cardboard tube samurai
R L Newb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 11:45 PM   #14
Deuce Cam
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 130444
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Chandler
Vehicle:
'85 AE86 GTS

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 801_STi View Post
yeah i think its 90/10 on 04/05 and 60/40 06 07 not sure though
Are you referring to the torque split? If so it's 35/65 on 04/05 models and 41/59 on 06+ models.

It gets kind of iffy - as in "I'm not really sure" - from there. I believe in AUTO mode, all model STI's might have the ability to transer 50% of the power to the front wheels if needed (maybe, I apologize if I'm incorrect).

In manual mode the torque split stays fixed (35/65 or 41/59) regardless of the setting (even lock), it's just the amount of initial lsd torque applied to DCCD that changes (more lsd torque keeps the front/rear wheels moving at similar speeds while less lsd torque allows wheel speed to vary more front/rear).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Back Road Runner View Post
Must have missed the debate.

Anywho, it looked like fun. I like the body panel nomming snow banks. I enjoy that kind of surface, good mix to where you need to read the surface but also enough grip so you're still having fun and not putting around at 5mph-10mph. It's hard for me to consider it ice driving unless it's on a lake though. Maybe they should have hosed the whole course down before hand. Then again, pure ice is easier to drive on then that type of surface as ice alone is very consistent and predictable. It just would have been an insanely slow race unless you guys were running studs or WS60s or something.

What tires were used for the exhibition?
This is a very good point. It looked more like mud/slush driving - I didn't really see any ice.
Deuce Cam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 02:59 AM   #15
ricochet
Driving Sports TV Staff
 
Member#: 15542
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Kirkland, WA
Vehicle:
1991 Legacy Sedan

Default

When we started the day, it was mostly ice. However, as the sun warmed things up (it was unseasonably warm that day), it got pretty muddy. By the time we did the versus battle the course was about 60% mud, with still a good amount ice on the far end (outside camera view.)

Tires were studded, with the expectation that we would be driving on ice all day.
ricochet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2010, 05:00 PM   #16
2005wrxowner
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 217455
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: south east usa
Vehicle:
2005 wrx
blue wrc

Default ice

I did donuts on the ice last time we had snow here. The neighbors kids came out and cheered loudly afterwards.It was fun..The kids across the way, had just learned to drive.Maybe a 2.2 is in their future.
2005wrxowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2010, 10:21 PM   #17
boost4life
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 75129
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Marquette,mi area
Vehicle:
09 WRX stg 2+
Lost the boxer rumble

Default

I love winter driving When can I get a job like that?
boost4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2005 Studs on Ice time trial / track day on ice Ice racer Motorsports 71 10-24-2005 01:02 PM
From an educational standpoint, why do universities harp on groupwork? Fach Off-Topic 41 10-21-2005 05:14 AM
2005 Studs on Ice time trial / track day on ice Who is going? feropont Tri-State Area Forum 37 02-11-2005 08:01 PM
What to choose - my wrx or an education burnout555 Off-Topic 32 04-06-2004 04:07 AM
Looking for an education jpmarotta New England Impreza Club Forum -- NESIC 9 09-03-2003 07:58 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.