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Old 06-02-2010, 06:48 PM   #51
FlatironsTuning.com
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i_c_the_light View Post
True, having rotors made of carbon does change the game a bit, but when you see how much grip the tyres alone give and how easy they can flatspot them, especially with the loads they are subjected to...then it does show that bigger isn't always better.
Formula 1 is so technologically removed from a street car that there really is no relevance to this discussion.

And FWIW, they are 13" wheels this year. They are talking about going up to 18" or 20" wheels next year and the teams aren't liking that much.
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Old 06-02-2010, 07:08 PM   #52
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I'm sorry, but there are several blatant errors in both the original and followup arguments. I don't care enough to get into an internet battle, so all I will say is everyone should take everything they read on the internet with a grain of salt.

Even if it's a 'Sticky' Thread!
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Old 06-02-2010, 07:14 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepdog View Post
I'm sorry, but there are several blatant errors in both the original and followup arguments. I don't care enough to get into an internet battle, so all I will say is everyone should take everything they read on the internet with a grain of salt.

Even if it's a 'Sticky' Thread!
But you cared enough to post without offering any insight to the "blatant errors"...............
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:21 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
You should notice a difference in how the brakes respond when you first get on the brakes though, like pedal feel or how much braking you get per bit of pedal travel.

If not, I am betting you never bedded them in properly. Bring me the car, Ill bed them in out towards Cedar park on parmer. When the car pretty much doesnt stop anymore and smoke is coming from your wheels, then Ill call them bedded

IIRC we did your brakes in my garage didnt we? I seem to remember doing them and not having time for us to take it out and bed them in.
Off topic but...If you didnt bed them in the first time right can you always re-bed assuming there is enough pad left?


Sheepdog dont be a B! Provide your insight please.
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:41 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post

I would say I know more though. Simply through the sheer volume of my experience. I am 36 and have had a wrench in my hand since I was old enough to know what to do with one. I did it for a living, I do it as a hobby, I eat sleep live and breath this stuff.

I'm telling Scotty. As if there is a thread he doesn't read here.
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:48 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepdog View Post
I'm sorry, but there are several blatant errors in both the original and followup arguments. I don't care enough to get into an internet battle, so all I will say is everyone should take everything they read on the internet with a grain of salt.

Even if it's a 'Sticky' Thread!
Ok here is the truth

1. You are a liar. You DO care enough to get into an internet battle or you wouldn't have posted.

2. You likely lack the technical knowledge and experience to back up your claims, hence your refusal to back them up, under the guise of "being better than that". You aren't.

3. I would bet I have at least twice the hands on experience that you do, as well as formal education on the subject.

4. Coming into a thread saying "you are wrong but I wont tell you why" then leaving is a childish thing to do and an obvious way of seeking attention.

Last edited by Davenow; 06-02-2010 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:08 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepdog View Post
I'm sorry, but there are several blatant errors in both the original and followup arguments. I don't care enough to get into an internet battle, so all I will say is everyone should take everything they read on the internet with a grain of salt.

Even if it's a 'Sticky' Thread!
*yawn*

u done?
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:22 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepdog View Post
I'm sorry, but there are several blatant errors in both the original and followup arguments. I don't care enough to get into an internet battle, so all I will say is everyone should take everything they read on the internet with a grain of salt.

Even if it's a 'Sticky' Thread!
Feel free to PM me what those blatent errors are.
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:26 PM   #59
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I think you have some very valid points, and I argue this all the time (but you put drilled and slotted rotors on your truck) yeah but lets just forget the 42ft trailer that weighs 14K lol
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:31 PM   #60
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I will say that I just purchased my 2002...the brake system, to generalize, was in need of replacement in that the stock calipers were the only item to remain. I watched and waited until I could find a Stage II STech brake kit at a decent dime. Yes, it came with fluid. Yes, it came with SS lines. And, yes, I now have slotted rotors...but for the price, the timing, and the excitement of having my new-to-me it was worth it. I had no dreams of grandur other than stopping efficiently without pulsing or downshift. I did upgrade and would like to share my case, but there is no way a BBK would touch her, just not my style. All the same my set has been, so to speak, "upgraded."

To reference the OP's points, other systems in my lovely have been addressed as well...out of necessity. The exhaust is near leak and I would prefer not to wait until winter settles to address the issue.

Also, whomever replaced the suspension (only mod besides sway bars on the auto) had it wound so tight that it **** a diamond and fcut itself in the RR...
(Great story, I know)

I took my time, researched for my purposes, and followed my budget. In the end, I want to drive to the end of my driveway to the postbox...and I love it.


I definitely agree with the objective nature of this thread. The animalistic drive to throw the "wow" factor on our rides is prevalent...and I've actually noticed a backlash to that mentality as of late and think Davenow's view is timely. Either way, we rock for having a scoob in the first place!
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:33 PM   #61
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I think this has been implied, but not really stated so I just had a quick question.

The reason to upgrade brakes (maybe not a big brake kit, but just higher quality materials) would be to lighten the system and prevent wear (brake fade and brake dust buildup) correct?
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:40 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotsho111 View Post
The reason to upgrade brakes (maybe not a big brake kit, but just higher quality materials) would be to lighten the system and prevent wear (brake fade and brake dust buildup) correct?
Not at all. It's to increase the heat soak capability of the braking system, and in some cases, for looks.
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:47 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
Not at all. It's to increase the heat soak capability of the braking system, and in some cases, for looks.
Wouldn't increasing the heat soak capability decrease brake fade?
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:49 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotsho111 View Post
I think this has been implied, but not really stated so I just had a quick question.

The reason to upgrade brakes (maybe not a big brake kit, but just higher quality materials) would be to lighten the system and prevent wear (brake fade and brake dust buildup) correct?
Combo of things really....... usually lighter materials than OEM, and better at dealing with heat so as to avoid fade while also having a stronger braking "force" and better "feel".
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:40 PM   #65
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I've got big brakes and sticky tires. What do I win?


Cliff Notes: Factory brakes are great for stopping from any speed...once.
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Old 06-03-2010, 12:53 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotsho111 View Post
Wouldn't increasing the heat soak capability decrease brake fade?
Brake fade has little to do with wear.
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Old 06-03-2010, 01:01 AM   #67
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Cliff Notes: Factory brakes are great for stopping from any speed...once.[/quote]

^^^^ True everyone brakes differently. There are the idiot drivers and the good drivers. So pretty much this thread post relates to the good drivers. Cuz face it if you stomp on the brakes hard all the time the oem brakes wont hold as good as aftermarket.
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Old 06-03-2010, 01:04 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrek11 View Post
There are the idiot drivers and the good drivers. So pretty much this thread post relates to the good drivers. Cuz face it if you stomp on the brakes hard all the time the oem brakes wont hold as good as aftermarket.
So good drivers only use the brakes once?
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Old 06-03-2010, 01:24 AM   #69
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im saying that as long as you dont brake hard everytime you step on the brakes oem brakes are fine however there are the horrible drivers out there that do slam the breaks everytime and for there sake they should get aftermarket brakes since most of the time they will hold up longer. But really they should just take driving lessons.
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:38 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrek11 View Post
im saying that as long as you dont brake hard everytime you step on the brakes oem brakes are fine however there are the horrible drivers out there that do slam the breaks everytime and for there sake they should get aftermarket brakes since most of the time they will hold up longer. But really they should just take driving lessons.
What about good drivers who are hard on the brakes?
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Old 06-03-2010, 02:29 PM   #71
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then upgrade
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:17 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinter View Post
A formula 1 car weighs 1367lbs including the driver, has gobs of high speed air available for cooling and is made from exotic materials.

It's not exactly comparable.
....the rotors are made out of Carbon Fiber, not steel... Apple, meet Orange.
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:21 PM   #73
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Here is an interesting test based on the extreme brake failure of the Nismo 370's brakes at the 2009 Lightning Lap. My 2009 WRX also had significant brake failure, which also happened in their test. I did not crash, because I was driving the twisties here in NorCal at a slower speed... but my experience makes me not 100% agree on the original post in this thread...

Check out the article:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ng_lap-feature

Anyhow, there is no doubt upgrading lines, fluid and pads will result in better braking performance and shorter stopping distances.
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:27 PM   #74
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Excellent write up OP. I do know some people would benefit from brake upgrades, typically those who are harder on the brakes than others.

The STI brembos *should* be more than adequate for light tracking imho, maybe with some fluid with a higher dry/wet boiling point?

On my truck, I'm 110k miles with original brakes and I get them looked at every 3k mile oil change. Some drivers might need brakes sooner depending on how they brake and when.

I enjoyed reading your post and if anyone takes anything away from it, I think the most important overlooked aspect of modding is the importance of tires in both braking and handling

oh and btw

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanderkitten View Post
Anyhow, there is no doubt upgrading lines, fluid and pads will result in better braking performance and shorter stopping distances.
Not necessarily. It depends on the condition of your tires. A locked tire is a locked tire, regardless of the brakes. Your tires will eventually stop the vehicle. Brakes do not stop the vehicle, they simply slow or stop the wheel/tire from spinning, it's up to the tires to stop the vehicle from there...hope this makes sense?

Last edited by Noek; 06-06-2010 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:37 PM   #75
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Hey, if I wanna sp3nd hard dollars on inner wheel bling, that's my buisness. balla

but seriously, I've had 2pots, red 4 pots,and brembos. The only thing I've gained was bragging rights. The brembos bite slightly harder but that's just the pads
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