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Old 06-16-2010, 08:19 PM   #1
MTL_SLVR_WRX
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Default Which has more top end in an EJ205? FP HTA68 vs Blouch 18G-XT

Just wondering if there are some people out there who can provide dyno sheets for either the FP HTA68 or Blouch 18G-XT so they can be compared and contrasted.

I bought a Blouch 18G 8cm last year, just when the FP HTA68 came out.
I decided that I'd go with a turbo that had already proven itself, rather than take a gamble.

About two months ago Blouch stopped production of the 18G and replaced it with the 18G-XT.

Thought the info that some users could post would be interesting...
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Last edited by MTL_SLVR_WRX; 06-16-2010 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 06-16-2010, 08:23 PM   #2
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I'm also curious about the 18g-xt, especially curious about the spool times on it.
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:01 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hella jdm y0 View Post
I'm also curious about the 18g-xt, especially curious about the spool times on it.
+1!

I'm just ordering the 18G-xt, but as I'm in Brazil, it will take for ever to get here
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:17 PM   #4
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18g all the way. there are threads all over for the hta the average for a 205 on pump is like 300-320
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:53 PM   #5
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HTA on e85 will make some awesome power. I've personally seen them make 320-330.
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Old 06-16-2010, 10:00 PM   #6
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e85 should be higher thn that ive seen 300 on pump. we dont have e85 here so cant tell you the kind of power id expect somewhere in the 350-360 range.. but for that id just buy a used vf39 save $400 and call it a day
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Old 06-16-2010, 10:50 PM   #7
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ive seen 370 on e85 with the HTA.

but top end- like the subject suggests- 18g-xt all day..
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Old 06-16-2010, 10:57 PM   #8
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MAPerformance, or whatever it is, made just about 400 on a dynojet with an hta and e85. I think that was at either 26 or 28 psi. JSarv made just over 400 on an airboy plot with a regular 18g and e85 right before his car got totaled. I believe that was a 28-29 psi run with front mount, and he had previously been making 360-370ish on an sti tmic and (I think) 26ish psi. That was with an 8cm exhaust housing, which made more hp over the 7cm throughout his entire rpm range.

Really, the stock ej205 heads/cams aren't designed to make a lot of top end. Pretty much any setup is going to taper a bit up top, unless you're running such a big turbo that it's not fully spooling until almost redline.
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Old 06-16-2010, 11:30 PM   #9
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18g all the way!
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:08 AM   #10
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My FP18g makes 365AWHP and I was out of fuel on E85.
I would love to see an 18g-XT . I've got a STi at the shop right now with a 20G-XT. It should be back together soon.
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Old 06-17-2010, 06:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason miller View Post
MAPerformance, or whatever it is, made just about 400 on a dynojet with an hta and e85. I think that was at either 26 or 28 psi. JSarv made just over 400 on an airboy plot with a regular 18g and e85 right before his car got totaled. I believe that was a 28-29 psi run with front mount, and he had previously been making 360-370ish on an sti tmic and (I think) 26ish psi. That was with an 8cm exhaust housing, which made more hp over the 7cm throughout his entire rpm range.

Really, the stock ej205 heads/cams aren't designed to make a lot of top end. Pretty much any setup is going to taper a bit up top, unless you're running such a big turbo that it's not fully spooling until almost redline.
Take MAPerformance's numbers with a grain of salt. He was running on 800cc injectors and the stock intercooler at 28psi. Somehow, that math doesn't compute for me. Until that's backed up by another company, I think it's simply the dyno.

I think that 68hta would be ideal with a 8cm td06 option, it would be out powering 20g's all day. Until that happens, it's kind of a missmash of parts that work ok. There was one thread on here with a guy who gained 30whp by switching to a 10cm2 hotside on his, of course he was running a 2.1 stroker to 8k with headwork (still dropped massive power by 8k though).
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Old 06-17-2010, 06:39 PM   #12
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There are way too many people on here trying to decide on turbos that are so close together.....

Blouch's site..... 4. Mitsubishi TD05H turbine wheel
TD06 compressor housing
43 LB/MIN

FP's Site.... Rapid spool and large torque numbers are guaranteed by the TD05H turbine section
47 lbs/min

I believe the the compressor housing on the 68HTA is a td05 16g housing....which makes it smaller than the 18gxtr housing.

So it seems that FP is claiming more flow throw a smaller housing......


Based on what i think the compressor housing is on a 68HTA i would give the edge to the 18gxtr all day long. Especially if you went compared 7cm vs 7cm up to 10cm vs 10cm combinations...the 18g should win, imo.

The problem is that we now have 7cm, 8cm and 10cm turbine housing available for each of these turbos.....so its a cluster phawk of different turbos all simply labeled as "68HTA" and "18gxtr". there is 6 different combinations of each turbo.

i mean a 7cm 68HTA will get killed on the topend by a 10cm 18gxtr and a 10cm68HTA might make more topend than a 7cm 18gxtr.

Basically, the turbos are so freaking close that my decision would be based on the 16g housing....its tiny.

If you wanna put things on a level playing field then it should be 47 lb/min 20gxtr vs 68HTA.....

IMO if you're looking for topend.....get a gt30 range turbo....dom1,2, or 2.5

if you get a 8cm dom2.5 the lag isnt gonna be horribly different but the topend will be wayyyyyy better.
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Old 06-17-2010, 07:18 PM   #13
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I agree with absolutely everything you've said except for this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
If you wanna put things on a level playing field then it should be 47 lb/min 20gxtr vs 68HTA.....

what? thats like comparing a donkey with a saddle on it to a race horse. lol

the 20gxtr comes with a minimum of the 7cm housing, and its a TD06 turbo.

the hta68 is a TDO5.

not a fair comparison.

anyways the 18g-xt is gonna give you that better flow up top, and thats what you were asking- which has better top end. answer is simple!
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Old 06-17-2010, 07:27 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubinm View Post
not a fair comparison.
its a fair comparison in the sense that FP is pimping the 68HTA as a 47 lb/min turbo!

FP is basically saying....look our 16g turbo will outflow any 18g and 20g you got.

How is it not fair in that sense? FP themselves is claiming that it flows the same as a 20gxtr.

I know its not fair size wise, which is why i said the td06 will flow more......but it is fair it you base the comparison on FP's flow claims.

A 47 lb/min turbo should be able to make 470whp on a Dynojet.....and none of them have even come close.

At best the 68hta makes the power of a 38-40lb/min turbo....

Quote:
Originally Posted by FP

Everyone has seen or heard about Evo3 16g turbos and TD05H 18g turbos for the Subaru 2.0 and 2.5 engines, our newest turbo is the FP 68HTA™Turbocharger for the Subaru STi/WRX unit which out flows both the E316g and 18g wheels and allows for higher PR operation without increased compressor outlet temperatures like the existing 16g and 18g wheels. Mass flow is increased to a whopping 47lb/min which is several lb/min greater than either the E316g or the 18g wheels are capable of. Rapid spool and large torque numbers are guaranteed by the TD05H turbine section.

Last edited by Phatron; 06-17-2010 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 06-17-2010, 07:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
A 47 lb/min turbo should be able to make 470whp on a Dynojet.....and none of them have even come close.
The way I've always been lead to understand the lb/min-hp thing is that 47 lb/min would be 470 crank hp... No? Or are you making a stab at Dynojet numbers here??
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Old 06-17-2010, 08:27 PM   #16
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I am running the FP HTA Green and planning to swap for the HTA 68. I like to have quick spool but not losing too much top end. Now I am confused
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Old 06-17-2010, 08:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
FP themselves is claiming that it flows the same as a 20gxtr.

well, they are making a flow claim with 47lbs / min, however they arent saying it outflows a 20gxt.. they say- and you qouted them directly- that it outflows a evo316g.. and the 18g..


its all a matter of semantics


is the 20gxt a 47/lb min turbo?

cuz the hta68 isnt im thinkin those flow rates are a little inflated.. still a fun turbo tho. i run one! perhaps what they are truly claiming is that the wheel can flow that much..

but that td05 housing just isnt gonna let it happen..
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Old 06-17-2010, 08:37 PM   #18
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and yeah.. after reading their claim.----

they are making the claims about the wheels!!!! not the turbo per se.

"out flows both the E316g and 18g wheels "


"whopping 47lb/min which is several lb/min greater than either the E316g or the 18g wheels are capable of"


so perhaps the HTA68 wheel truly is capable of 47lbs a min, but its fairly obvious those flow rates are not going to be achieved in a TD05 housing
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Old 06-17-2010, 08:43 PM   #19
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Why don't you get the best of both worlds and do a twin scroll setup? Here's a graph from a car that I've been working on--bone stock ej205, straight pump gas, and normal bolt-on mods....well, besides the turbo from an Evo 9 and the equal length header



Holds power up top really well due to the turbine a/r, but still spools decent due to the equal length TS. Car is brutal through the first 4 gears.
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Old 06-17-2010, 08:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason miller View Post
The way I've always been lead to understand the lb/min-hp thing is that 47 lb/min would be 470 crank hp... No? Or are you making a stab at Dynojet numbers here??
That's the way I understood it too, 10 crank hp for ever 1lb/min flow. Garrett even mentions that in their literature.

"What is my mass flow rate? As a very general rule, turbocharged gasoline engines will generate 9.5-10.5 horsepower (as measured at the flywheel) for each lb/min of airflow. So, an engine with a target peak horsepower of 400 Hp will require 36-44 lb/min of airflow to achieve that target. This is just a rough first approximation to help narrow the turbo selection options."
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:15 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
There are way too many people on here trying to decide on turbos that are so close together.....

Blouch's site..... 4. Mitsubishi TD05H turbine wheel
TD06 compressor housing
43 LB/MIN

FP's Site.... Rapid spool and large torque numbers are guaranteed by the TD05H turbine section
47 lbs/min

I believe the the compressor housing on the 68HTA is a td05 16g housing....which makes it smaller than the 18gxtr housing.

So it seems that FP is claiming more flow throw a smaller housing......


Based on what i think the compressor housing is on a 68HTA i would give the edge to the 18gxtr all day long. Especially if you went compared 7cm vs 7cm up to 10cm vs 10cm combinations...the 18g should win, imo.

The problem is that we now have 7cm, 8cm and 10cm turbine housing available for each of these turbos.....so its a cluster phawk of different turbos all simply labeled as "68HTA" and "18gxtr". there is 6 different combinations of each turbo.

i mean a 7cm 68HTA will get killed on the topend by a 10cm 18gxtr and a 10cm68HTA might make more topend than a 7cm 18gxtr.

Basically, the turbos are so freaking close that my decision would be based on the 16g housing....its tiny.

If you wanna put things on a level playing field then it should be 47 lb/min 20gxtr vs 68HTA.....

IMO if you're looking for topend.....get a gt30 range turbo....dom1,2, or 2.5

if you get a 8cm dom2.5 the lag isnt gonna be horribly different but the topend will be wayyyyyy better.
Of course a larger turbo will generate more top end, but my question was comparing two similar turbos.

After listening to what my tuner recommended (Mike from Innovative) I went with an 18G because a 20G or larger would be too much for a 2.0 litre ej205. Sure, I'd love to drop in anything from Dom 1 to a gt35, but on a 2.0? What kind of drivability will I have in the city as a dd?

According to what's available on the market today, I'd consider the FP HTA68 or Blouch 18G-XT the top two choices, no?

My question is...which one will provide more hp with similar specs (ie. 8cm, etc)
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:59 PM   #22
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simple...18gxtr.

imo 20g or even gt30's arent too big for a 2L....its basically all personal preference with regards to lag....

here is a 16g vs sbr gt12 vs HTA Green on my 2.2L wrx (bored ej205)

HTA green is a 56 lb/min turbo....and absolutely kills the others after 3800 rpm. So, IMO, lag is over-rated.....

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Old 06-17-2010, 11:25 PM   #23
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Here's a direct comparison of a Blouch 8cm^2 18g vs. a 10cm^2 hotside hta68. The cars are tuned virtually identically by Dom. The only possibly significant difference is the 18g has a full 3" turboback, while the hta68 car has a stock STi catback.

The 18g (thanks, Dr. Michael):



The hta68 (my car):

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Old 06-18-2010, 12:05 AM   #24
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wow that green looks great in that graph. Whats the deal with sbr-gt12, its really slow to spool, and isn't spectacular on the top end.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:25 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garagedefeat View Post
Why don't you get the best of both worlds and do a twin scroll setup? Here's a graph from a car that I've been working on--bone stock ej205, straight pump gas, and normal bolt-on mods....well, besides the turbo from an Evo 9 and the equal length header



Holds power up top really well due to the turbine a/r, but still spools decent due to the equal length TS. Car is brutal through the first 4 gears.
was wondering when someone was going to do this.....any more info?
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