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Old 06-20-2010, 01:18 PM   #51
SVT_WRX
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I asked Flava Flave what he thinks about the hta68 and he says----"don't believe the hype! Don't, don't, don't believe the hype!"
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Old 06-20-2010, 04:37 PM   #52
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does anyone know where can I get a 20g XT for the lowest price? I have seen people mentioned about getting them for $12xx, but couldn't really find any vendor offering at that price range
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Old 06-20-2010, 05:27 PM   #53
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I think the intro price thing is over with but i would recommend going either directly through blouch or going to import image who generally has pretty good prices also
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Old 06-20-2010, 10:07 PM   #54
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To throw another turbo into the mix, we are currently testing our twin scroll turbo kit's using Lancer Evolution turbos, specially prepped by FP for us, and one of the turbo's we plan to test in the near future is this twin scroll 68hta turbo....

http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...e=Lancer-Turbo

This turbo will be avaialable with 9, 9.8 or 10.5 cm housings and currently we tested our 2.5 liter header/uppipe setup on my stock longblock 2.0 liter with the largest of our header primary diameters, Evo 9 turbo with a 9 cm housing, IWG, a mild tune and pump gas, it made the graph shown in post #19. The car feels great and there's alot more left in it even on pump gas.

The next turbo we will test will be the Evo 6.5 RS TME.....

http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...e=Lancer-Turbo

It should move the tq curve left and it should hold power all the way to redline like the other turbo, and we feel this will be a better match for the ej20.

Just something for you guys to think about.
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Old 06-20-2010, 10:15 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
Applying logic:
18g-XT will outflow 18g
therefore 18g-XT 8cm2 will outflow HTA68 10cm2

And that pretty much sums up the top-end debate.
Well, I have to admit I'm curious. Does anybody actually have a dyno plot for the 18G-XT? Sure haven't seen one in this thread, just a lot of hta68 trash talk.

You guys just wait 'til I get my full turboback!

Edit noting the above (Moore's) post: I think the hta68 may really shine on pump with the bigger housing. I think my tuner Dom's got the right idea here going 10cm^2.

Last edited by Dave D.; 06-20-2010 at 10:22 PM.
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Old 06-21-2010, 02:09 AM   #56
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Not much 18g-XT talk / results here, I've seen more on iwsti it looked promising, but it was a dyno I wasn't familiar with, and had no direct comparison.
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Old 06-21-2010, 11:14 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave D. View Post
You guys just wait 'til I get my full turboback!

Edit noting the above (Moore's) post: I think the hta68 may really shine on pump with the bigger housing. I think my tuner Dom's got the right idea here going 10cm^2.
what happened to your 2.5" taper doesnt hurt power talk?

getting the exhaust through the turbine isnt really the problem on this turbo......its flowing "47 lb" through the compressor housing thats the issue.
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Old 06-21-2010, 01:46 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
what happened to your 2.5" taper doesnt hurt power talk?

getting the exhaust through the turbine isnt really the problem on this turbo......its flowing "47 lb" through the compressor housing thats the issue.
Hey, I recanted in a post back there somewhere -- my conclusion is now that it's ok up to a VF39 -- but you yourself helped to convince me I've maxed out the exhaust at this time. I never said there wasn't a point that 2.5" wouldn't do.

Dom seems to think the major restriction was the exhaust side. Like I have said, I can't wait to eliminate this variable.
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Old 06-21-2010, 08:21 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave D. View Post
Well, I have to admit I'm curious. Does anybody actually have a dyno plot for the 18G-XT? Sure haven't seen one in this thread, just a lot of hta68 trash talk.
See the lists HERE for links to logs and plots. The highest whp a HTA68 made was 330whp on a 2.5L, while even an older TD05-18G made almost 360whp on a smaller 2.0L.

There is nothing wrong with a HTA68 for those who want quick spool and moderate power, but when ppl try and pass it off as a turbo that is bigger or better then what it is, you'll find ppl will always object.

Leslie
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Old 06-21-2010, 08:38 PM   #60
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399 whp / 465 tq HTA68 on e85.




link:

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/power-br...trq-68hta.html
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Old 06-21-2010, 09:26 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxsti.l View Post
See the lists HERE for links to logs and plots. The highest whp a HTA68 made was 330whp on a 2.5L, while even an older TD05-18G made almost 360whp on a smaller 2.0L.Leslie
It took E85 to do it. The other barn-burners needed E85, meth, or race gas to get to this level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubinm View Post
399 whp / 465 tq HTA68 on e85. link:

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/power-br...trq-68hta.html
Myself I'm interested in pump gas results. Guess I'll have to see what I can find for reference besides my own data points.

My hypothesis at this point is that small hotsides do very well with high octane, allowing quick spool and avoiding pulled timing on top.

Of course I'm not running a 7cm^2 hotside, which is why I think the 10cm^2 hotside with a free-flowing exhaust might make a statement on pump.
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:53 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubinm View Post
399 whp / 465 tq HTA68 on e85.
link:

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/power-br...trq-68hta.html
You post a link to a thread where a guy claims he made 399. No dyno sheet, no logs, nothing. My car makes 600whp with a TD04

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave D. View Post
It took E85 to do it. The other barn-burners needed E85, meth, or race gas to get to this level.
And the HTA68 was on E70. Check the list, there are 18g's making more power on less boost with less timing (plus I'm pretty sure Renosuby's result was on 93 pump fuel)

I'm not having a go at your choice for using a HTA68, just the incorrect information that ppl constantly spread about the HTA68.

TBH the HTA68 is a great turbo for what it is - a 16g that provides fast boost response with a little more whp then stock sti turbo - but at the end of the day, it is only a 16g with a ~10% higher flowing comp wheel.

PPL should stop quoting and spreading the BS power figures, as it is distracting and wrong and leads to other NASIOC members buying a turbo that does not meet their needs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubinm View Post
Myself I'm interested in pump gas results. Guess I'll have to see what I can find for reference besides my own data points.
Time and time agin ppl have shown the HTA68 doesn't make the numbers on pump fuel. Most get around 300whp on pump - and that is on a dyno, and every man + dog knows dyno are for tuning, not for accurately comparing whp/tq figures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubinm View Post
My hypothesis at this point is that small hotsides do very well with high octane, allowing quick spool and avoiding pulled timing on top.

Of course I'm not running a 7cm^2 hotside, which is why I think the 10cm^2 hotside with a free-flowing exhaust might make a statement on pump.
As I mentioned above, at the end of the day, it is only a 16g with a ~10% higher flowing comp wheel - so regardless of turbine flow, you're still limited by the low flowing compressor wheel.

Leslie
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Old 06-22-2010, 12:55 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxsti.l View Post
You post a link to a thread where a guy claims he made 399. No dyno sheet, no logs, nothing. My car makes 600whp with a TD04

actually leslie he posted a graph, albeit in the wrong format, which i asked him to correct. give him a chance and the graph will be up.



Graphs are in the video.

had you taken the time to read the thread you would have seen that

http://www.youtube.com/v/x28e46g99zU...ram%3E%3Cparam

i think his numbers are very inflated.

is your TD04 a billet wheel?

Last edited by rubinm; 06-22-2010 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:00 AM   #64
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FWIW I have a couple of logs showing 370+ airboy whp on a HTA68 on E85.

21+ psi held to red-line and airflow of approximately 335-350 g/s with the MAF scaled the correct way.

I flow about 35+ g/s more then a VF series turbo in the exact same weather, elevation, from the same tuner with same WB (me). and spool on the 68 is within 50 rpm of the VF.
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:16 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBlueGT View Post
FWIW I have a couple of logs showing 370+ airboy whp on a HTA68 on E85.

21+ psi held to red-line and airflow of approximately 335-350 g/s with the MAF scaled the correct way.

I flow about 35+ g/s more then a VF series turbo in the exact same weather, elevation, from the same tuner with same WB (me). and spool on the 68 is within 50 rpm of the VF.
Don't speak about it...be about it. Post your logs both here and in the Official road dyno thread. I'd like to see the Mafv as well.
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Old 06-22-2010, 01:14 PM   #66
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They had a good run with this little turbo. FP, Slap some more parts togther.. Nasioc needs a new "turbo of the week"

I have seen this time and time again With turbo shops in the last 8 years I have been here. THey come out with some new super turbo. Kick back to some dyno shop to make amazing plots. They sell a thousand of them and people realize, it actualy sucks.

Skip the 18G altogher. I never liked the 18G on these motors. 16G or 20G is what I recomend.


C


Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxsti.l View Post
You post a link to a thread where a guy claims he made 399. No dyno sheet, no logs, nothing. My car makes 600whp with a TD04


And the HTA68 was on E70. Check the list, there are 18g's making more power on less boost with less timing (plus I'm pretty sure Renosuby's result was on 93 pump fuel)

I'm not having a go at your choice for using a HTA68, just the incorrect information that ppl constantly spread about the HTA68.

TBH the HTA68 is a great turbo for what it is - a 16g that provides fast boost response with a little more whp then stock sti turbo - but at the end of the day, it is only a 16g with a ~10% higher flowing comp wheel.

PPL should stop quoting and spreading the BS power figures, as it is distracting and wrong and leads to other NASIOC members buying a turbo that does not meet their needs.


Time and time agin ppl have shown the HTA68 doesn't make the numbers on pump fuel. Most get around 300whp on pump - and that is on a dyno, and every man + dog knows dyno are for tuning, not for accurately comparing whp/tq figures.


As I mentioned above, at the end of the day, it is only a 16g with a ~10% higher flowing comp wheel - so regardless of turbine flow, you're still limited by the low flowing compressor wheel.

Leslie
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Old 06-22-2010, 01:36 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Turner View Post
Skip the 18G altogher. I never liked the 18G on these motors. 16G or 20G is what I recomend.


C

Would you care to elabarate? I'm curious here!

Thanks
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Old 06-22-2010, 02:16 PM   #68
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With the big 16g and being able to setup a 20g in so many ways.....the 18g basically has no place.

a big 16g is 38-40 lb/min

a 20g is 44 lb/min

and you can setup a 20g in any of these configs

2.4" inlet td05 7cm
2.4" inlet td05 8cm
3.0" inlet td05 7cm
3.0" inlet td05 8cm

2.4" inlet td06 7cm
2.4" inlet td06 8cm
3.0" inlet td06 7cm
3.0" inlet td06 8cm

basically you can get any 18g configuration power curve by using a 20g
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Old 06-22-2010, 02:31 PM   #69
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^^ Thanks for that! I think with all the talk about 20Gs blowing trannys and engines, I got scared of the 20G


Thanks again!
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Old 06-22-2010, 04:59 PM   #70
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Since ya all are looking for info:

Highest peak numbers I've ever seen on a 68hta, with E85

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...744361&page=51

Second post down the page. 411 at the wheel. Again, I contribute this completely to a high reading dyno, but hey, there's a dyno of it.

As for pump gas, I can't seem to find the thread I'm looking for. Some guy that was running a 68hta on a built (I think) 2.1L, had issues, Dom put on a 10cm hotside, retuned, gained 30whp on pump. Although, it still looked like it was losing power by the 8k redline. Ring any bells? Someone point me in the right direction?
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Old 06-22-2010, 05:11 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
With the big 16g and being able to setup a 20g in so many ways.....the 18g basically has no place.

a big 16g is 38-40 lb/min

a 20g is 44 lb/min

and you can setup a 20g in any of these configs

2.4" inlet td05 7cm
2.4" inlet td05 8cm
3.0" inlet td05 7cm
3.0" inlet td05 8cm

2.4" inlet td06 7cm
2.4" inlet td06 8cm
3.0" inlet td06 7cm
3.0" inlet td06 8cm

basically you can get any 18g configuration power curve by using a 20g
benefit of the 3" inlet?

So lets say your looking to lose minimal spool buy stepping up up to a 20g from a vf turbo. You decide you want the smaller compressor td05 and the smaller exhaust housing 7cm, but then why would you get a 3" inlet? Just wondering why the option is there and if and where its wise to go 3" over 2.4".
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Old 06-22-2010, 05:31 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spx19811 View Post
i've got a 8 cm and it runs like a raped date
What

How would you know how a "raped date" runs!!!

You know that's not right...don't you.

The saying is "like a raped ape"

That's so ****ing hilarious. haha
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Old 06-22-2010, 05:31 PM   #73
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not really a big thing unless you couple it with a 3" APS Inlet.....

getting rid of any restrictions before the compressor will help it operate better/easy/more efficiently.....
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Old 06-22-2010, 05:48 PM   #74
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just did some minor research and it looks like the 3" inlet tapers to a 2.4" right at the inducer. The wheel inducer is the same size whether you go 2.4" or 3". With the 3", it looks like you "have" to delete the tgvs and fitment becomes a hassle.

so on a 2.0l it looks like the td05 20g 8cm^2 would be the best for daily driving, you get decent spool up and the top end.
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Old 06-22-2010, 06:32 PM   #75
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E85, FP68HTA, original 7 cm housing, IWG

Not my car, my 68HTA doesn't respond near as good as this one.

Code:
Load RPM Timing KnockSum MRP g/s MAFv WGDC throttle LC-1
0000   0.68   1915   31.5   3   -5.50   21.60   2.14   88.63   13.7    14.55
0150   0.68   1940   32.0   3   -5.49   21.69   2.12   88.63   13.7    14.54
0330   1.23   2018   35.5   3   00.52   46.85   2.68   88.63   100     14.57
0480   1.35   2028   34.0   3   00.88   45.09   2.74   88.63   100     14.95
0681   1.40   2096   33.0   3   01.37   49.46   2.72   88.63   100     14.98
0861   1.47   2142   32.0   3   01.87   52.82   2.76   88.63   100     13.45
1041   1.53   2188   30.5   3   02.40   56.83   2.80   88.63   100     12.95
1212   1.59   2222   30.0   3   02.91   60.54   2.82   88.63   100     12.45
1362   1.67   2282   29.0   3   03.49   65.59   2.92   88.63   100     12.25
1552   1.73   2350   28.5   3   04.18   69.86   3.02   88.63   100     12.04
1722   1.83   2409   27.5   3   04.88   75.43   3.02   88.63   100     11.88
1893   1.92   2477   26.5   3   05.64   80.74   3.10   88.63   100     11.42
2083   1.99   2563   25.0   3   06.67   86.47   3.18   88.63   100     11.32
2253   2.06   2581   24.0   3   07.58   94.43   3.36   88.63   100     11.01
2443   2.21   2722   22.0   3   08.92   105.8   3.46   88.63   100     10.97
2614   2.43   2826   20.5   3   10.68   120.1   3.54   88.63   100     10.94
2804   2.68   2922   20.0   3   12.74   138.7   3.72   88.63   100     10.94
2974   3.10   3046   19.5   3   15.29   162.9   3.84   87.45   100     10.98
3164   3.49   3181   19.0   3   18.68   189.7   4.04   72.94   100     10.72
3335   3.73   3318   18.5   3   21.56   213.3   4.22   65.49   100     10.64
3505   3.86   3434   18.5   3   23.06   221.5   4.28   62.75   100     10.75
3665   3.72   3604   19.0   3   22.89   221.3   4.22   62.75   100     10.95
3845   3.68   3749   19.0   3   22.46   230.7   4.32   63.92   100     11.29
4016   3.65   3906   19.5   3   22.24   238.6   4.38   66.27   100     11.41
4186   3.72   4051   19.5   3   22.69   251.4   4.48   67.06   100     11.39
4356   3.83   4208   19.5   3   23.13   272.1   4.54   67.06   100     11.44
4546   3.91   4294   19.5   3   23.13   281.2   4.60   67.45   100     11.54
4717   3.86   4497   19.5   3   22.80   288.1   4.62   69.02   100     11.29
4907   3.88   4630   20.0   3   22.85   301.8   4.68   70.59   100     11.23
5077   3.91   4864   20.0   3   22.89   314.3   4.70   70.98   100     11.26
5267   3.88   4928   20.5   3   22.89   322.3   4.74   72.16   100     11.2
5438   3.84   5084   21.0   3   23.04   323.9   4.76   73.33   100     11.23
5628   3.76   5204   21.0   3   23.07   325.8   4.78   73.73   100     11.33
5798   3.68   5341   21.5   3   22.92   328.1   4.80   73.33   100     11.39
5968   3.60   5525   21.5   3   22.63   329.7   4.80   73.33   100     11.42
6159   3.53   5570   22.0   3   22.23   329.8   4.80   73.73   100     11.5
6339   3.47   5808   22.5   3   21.83   329.8   4.80   76.08   100     11.55
6539   3.40   5912   23.5   3   21.81   331.1   4.80   77.65   100     11.51
6729   3.33   6071   24.0   3   21.87   332.5   4.82   79.61   100     11.44
6890   3.27   6184   24.5   3   21.90   332.7   4.84   80.00   100     11.55
7090   3.21   6306   25.0   3   21.82   333.4   4.84   80.39   100     11.55
7250   3.15   6406   25.5   3   21.97   333.9   4.84   80.78   100     11.48
7451   3.10   6456   25.5   3   21.96   334.3   4.84   80.78   100     11.5
7641   3.06   6582   26.0   3   21.97   335.5   4.86   80.78   100     11.45
7831   3.01   6671   26.0   3   22.05   335.2   4.84   80.78   100     11.42
7991   2.97   6779   26.5   3   22.05   334.8   4.86   81.18   100     11.47
8192   2.92   6885   27.5   3   22.13   334.3   4.84   80.78   100     11.41
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