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Old 07-01-2010, 04:28 PM   #1
Sti77
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Default 4G63 vs EJ25

I owned a 2004 STi when they first hit the shores and spent ~$10k in APS parts, labor, and tuning to hit the 400awhp mark. Second baby showed up and I had to sell it a year later.

Following summer I picked up a 2004 EVO and did some minor mods - CAI, TBE, fuel pump, and a tune and hit the 295awhp mark. Third baby showed up and I had to sell it a year later.

Now I'm not having any more kids and want to pick up a another one but I'm having a struggle. This car will be a third, stored car, that will be modified heavily over the years. Still streetable, but I'd like to break the 600awhp mark. I spend a lot of time here and at evolutionm and over time I have found it shocking the difference in power gains mod for mod between the two.

Here are some examples of stock turbo and motor evos making over 400awhp when running E85.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-dyn...rbo-hp-tq.html

Looking here, many 35R EJ's are making just over 400awhp, some even on built motors. My point isn't to start a flame war, but to understand what mechanically is causing the difference? Is it soley turbo placement and engine layout? I did a search but the only thread was from 2002.

I really love the subaru - the sound, refinement, look, tranny, etc. is awesome. However, I can improve the performance of the EVO for a fraction of the price.

Thanks for any insight...

Oh, and I'm not a big fan of the 4B11T/EVOX, so that is out.
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Old 07-01-2010, 04:41 PM   #2
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This has been covered. A lot. do a search.
4G:
Iron block = stronger
I4 = better spool
EJ:
aluminum block, even semiclosed, isn't as strong
H4 = LONG exhaust path to turbo as well as for IC
More displacement is nice.

But if you are going to build something.... either way its gonna be a built motor, so who cares about stock anything. STi tranny is better, other drivetrain parts are a wash.
Buy what looks better.
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Old 07-01-2010, 04:43 PM   #3
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IIRC the 4G63 Evos have a 10cm^2 turbo hotside too. Whereas ours is what, 7cm^2?
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Old 07-01-2010, 04:46 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses View Post
IIRC the 4G63 Evos have a 10cm^2 turbo hotside too. Whereas ours is what, 7cm^2?
this!

The evo turbo is as big as 20G and is Twin Scroll. Give me a 20G and I promise my car will make 400whp on E85 and trap 126-128mph. Just like the fastest stock turbo EVOs. If someone is looking 500whp + and EVO is a must
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Old 07-01-2010, 04:48 PM   #5
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I think a evo 8 or 9 with a built 4g63 would be better suited for you.

The things you like about the Suby
-Sound: with a 600whp subaru you will need equal length or twinscroll, so the boxer sound will most likely be gone.
-Refinement/Look: they both look somewhat similar :P
-Transmission: you would probably have to put straight cut in either.

And for the price it would be way easier/cheaper to achieve your goals with a 4g63.
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Old 07-01-2010, 04:54 PM   #6
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I-4 has nothing to do with spool.

Realistically these motors are VERY different, so much they aren't even worth comparing.

Rod ratio, bore/stroke ratio, compression ratio, cylinder head port symmetry, block strength, combustion chamber shape, charge and discharge coefficients, flowrates, thermal efficiencies...

due to layout of the engine however, they can have quicker spool and an even exhaust pulse much more easily than an EJ. Those are big for comparing the two motors in a street and race application. Their block in OEM form (still 85mm bore) allows for 40+psi boost where as a stock EJ257 is limited to a little over 30 or so. The 4G can run taller lift cams with more aggressive ramp rates. I.E. They can get easy power through lots of boost and big cams.

Comparing stock turbos, the TD05HR-16G smokes any stock subie turbo...but that is a moot point as you're looking for the 600 realm.
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Old 07-01-2010, 04:55 PM   #7
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I believe the only question in the OP is what causes the difference in mod for mod performance?

Answer: VE

Mods you can close now.
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Old 07-01-2010, 05:00 PM   #8
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It really is comparing apples to oranges. If you really want cheaper hp get a dsm gen1 and go old school. I love the 4g63 but I prefer the fit, finish, and feel of the sti over the evo. just my opinion.
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Old 07-01-2010, 05:06 PM   #9
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Eh.. Spent 10 years in the DSM/Evo Arena.. Now I drive an 11 second scoob..

4g63>ej.. Stronger block, better flowing head, greater VE.. Etc etc etc..

But really who cares?

Either route can net similiar results built properly.. Until you start to cross that 1000 hp threshold.. There are plenty of mid 1k HP 4g63's.. Not so many ej's..

So as long as you arent shooting for 1500 hp.. Again.. Who cares? Pick the vehicle that suits you better.. Personally I love my Suby..
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Old 07-01-2010, 05:27 PM   #10
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I would just sell my STi and get a 03/04 mustang cobra and for 10k get a 3.4L whipple supercharger and all the supporting mods and be churning out 800 ponies on E85. Just my opinion lol. Also a great deal more reliable.
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Old 07-01-2010, 06:27 PM   #11
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^^Dont do this.
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Old 07-01-2010, 07:25 PM   #12
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^^^ what he said.
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Old 07-01-2010, 07:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinator View Post
I would just sell my STi and get a 03/04 mustang cobra and for 10k get a 3.4L whipple supercharger and all the supporting mods and be churning out 800 ponies on E85. Just my opinion lol. Also a great deal more reliable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuffKevinFizzle View Post
^^Dont do this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourmicah View Post
^^^ what he said.
PuffKevinFizzle and fourmicah have apparently never experienced brute v8 power before... a 3.4 whippled cobra will make you wet your pants if done right

power per dollar a v8 is the way to go... also take a look at a c5 zo6 ...you can get them for about 20-25k if you look around. A zo6 handles pretty good and will rape bolt on sti's/evos ...trust me, ive seen first hand over 100 times
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Old 07-01-2010, 07:45 PM   #14
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^^Apparently you dont realize his question was not about how sweet v8 supercharged whipple nipple blah blah mustangs are. So lets keep it on topic.
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Old 07-01-2010, 07:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinator View Post
I would just sell my STi and get a 03/04 mustang cobra and for 10k get a 3.4L whipple supercharger and all the supporting mods and be churning out 800 ponies on E85. Just my opinion lol. Also a great deal more reliable.
actually, do this
if you want massive power and reliability the 03-04 cobra is awesome, and after the maximum motorsports grip kit, brembos, and some 17x11 with 315/40/17 all the way around, your handling and braking will not be an issue

once again its all about preference

i'd take the 4g63 and stroke it
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Old 07-01-2010, 08:03 PM   #16
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the 4g63 is stronger and can handle much more boost.

man, sometimes I wish I would have gotten an Evo, I'd already have the power I wanted without spending thousands.
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Old 07-01-2010, 08:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corzy666 View Post
I think a evo 8 or 9 with a built 4g63 would be better suited for you.

The things you like about the Suby
-Sound: with a 600whp subaru you will need equal length or twinscroll, so the boxer sound will most likely be gone.
-Refinement/Look: they both look somewhat similar :P
-Transmission: you would probably have to put straight cut in either.

And for the price it would be way easier/cheaper to achieve your goals with a 4g63.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kevosnowsti View Post
the 4g63 is stronger and can handle much more boost.

man, sometimes I wish I would have gotten an Evo, I'd already have the power I wanted without spending thousands.
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Old 07-01-2010, 08:17 PM   #18
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Quit screwing around and buy a real track car. ZO6.
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Old 07-01-2010, 08:55 PM   #19
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^^^ Wat he said. buy a zo6 and slap a turbo kit on it. 600+ WHP @ 10lbs of boost...lol. no replacement for displacement. all jokes aside tho. im a proud owner of a 35r ej, and from the route ur tryin to go and my personal experience go with the EVO.
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Old 07-01-2010, 09:01 PM   #20
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4th gen toyota poopra easy power

and what the guys above me said. supercharged/turbocharged Z06s are ridiculous =D
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Old 07-01-2010, 09:21 PM   #21
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Here is a good compare this is a video of a small 2-3rd pull

This is my 00 RS sti swapped ej207 2ltr fully built 278/274 cams s366 powered VS my friends fully built motor 280/280 cams 4g63 eclipse also running a s366 turbo and we are both running the almost exact boost 23-24psi on 98 pump


Cars perform amazingly similar

this is not a street race just a pull on a closed road out of town
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Old 07-01-2010, 09:50 PM   #22
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^^^ Ej207>ej257 ^^^
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Old 07-01-2010, 10:29 PM   #23
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rev limit vs torque?

they end up being equal no? well, in stock form.

bored out 207 w/ big port heads > bored out 257 w/ usdm heads.

257 w/ 207 heads = win.

i will own an evo someday but will be parking it next to my subaru. i am certainly looking forward to building a dsm or an 4g63 in race car form.
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Old 07-01-2010, 10:38 PM   #24
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if you get an EVO your life will be alot easier

if you get the subaru, atleast you can come on here and bitch when it blows up
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Old 07-01-2010, 10:55 PM   #25
maxpowr
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maybe he should get a lexus ^^^.

did you move yet steve? i wanna make sure we do some pulls in my car before you bounce.
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