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Old 07-19-2010, 12:36 PM   #51
Phatron
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u dont need to use the sheet.....you should be able to isolate where the hesitation is occuring......then just experiment with the table in that spot until the hesitation goes away.
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Old 08-03-2010, 02:52 PM   #52
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I'm not sure if you have done this but I would check the following:

1. Check fuel pressure at idle and make sure that it rises 1psi for ever 1psi of boost. Drive around with the gauge and look to see if you have any strange pressure drops or changes while cruising and in your rough spot.

2. Use rom raider to log the roughness monitors on #1,#2,#3,#4. Look at the roughness while at idle in real time then give it a little throttle, make note of a cyl showing more roughness then the others. Try cruising and watching this. If you can isolate it to a cyl you may consider swaping that injector then the coil pack. I have run into issues with faulty or leaking injectors as well as coil packs causing your problem.

3. Swap the front O2 sensor again with a known good one. You mentioned when you disconnected the rear sensor your problems stopped. Thats fairly odd. Try disconnecting the front sensor and see what happens. The car usually uses the front sensor to trim the fuel, it responds very fast with short term fuel trims, when the front sensors start to go bad a classic symptom is what you described. You may be able to spot a sudden trim if you log rpm and af correction #1 if there is a sudden swing in fueling this should show it. Try to log as little as possible to keep the definition high in the logs.
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:03 PM   #53
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First, thanx a lot for your input.

1.- I didnt check that thoroughly but the FPR has been changed for a new one lately.

2.- I will check that.

3.- I had the front 02 sensor changed under warranty at the dealer with no effect whatsoever. I had the rear 02 sensor changed as well with no effect.

I know from the tool I have made to display SSM data that the AF Correction is swinging when I let the gaz or jump on it. It is also swinging when the hesitation occurs at CONSTANT light pedal input...

and rear 02 sensor can cause the ecu to trim fuel up to 25% I think from what I have read. I need to go further in my disassembly effort to confirm.

thanx

Mart

Quote:
Originally Posted by P3Auto View Post
I'm not sure if you have done

this but I would check the following:

1. Check fuel pressure at idle and make sure that it rises 1psi for ever 1psi of boost. Drive around with the gauge and look to see if you have any strange pressure drops or changes while cruising and in your rough spot.

2. Use rom raider to log the roughness monitors on #1,#2,#3,#4. Look at the roughness while at idle in real time then give it a little throttle, make note of a cyl showing more roughness then the others. Try cruising and watching this. If you can isolate it to a cyl you may consider swaping that injector then the coil pack. I have run into issues with faulty or leaking injectors as well as coil packs causing your problem.

3. Swap the front O2 sensor again with a known good one. You mentioned when you disconnected the rear sensor your problems stopped. Thats fairly odd. Try disconnecting the front sensor and see what happens. The car usually uses the front sensor to trim the fuel, it responds very fast with short term fuel trims, when the front sensors start to go bad a classic symptom is what you described. You may be able to spot a sudden trim if you log rpm and af correction #1 if there is a sudden swing in fueling this should show it. Try to log as little as possible to keep the definition high in the logs.

Last edited by Daluv; 08-03-2010 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 08-05-2010, 01:08 PM   #54
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I'm not sure if this might be the case but you might not be seeing knock correction for that light throttle jolt because the knock correction tables are usually at 0 around that light of a load and low rpm value. What you can do is increase those 0s to 2 or 3 degrees and log the results, if you see that it is pulling timing in the area where it is hesitating, you will need to decrease the base map iginition advance. I had this happen in MY04 and finally I took a look at the base map on light load columns and found that there was way too much advance in one cell. Lowered it and it fixed the hesitation.
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Old 08-05-2010, 01:20 PM   #55
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^^ its not that.

Even if your Advance table is 0, the FBKC and FLKC still work.....knock correction doesnt just pull timing from the advance table.....its just a big equation with a bunch of variables

Total Timing = Base Timing + Advance + FBKC + FLKC + IAT Comp + Coolant Comp + etc

The advance table is there to globally change the timing at high loads via the IAM.
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Old 08-08-2010, 07:03 PM   #56
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Hi, just posted some logs and there is no knocking present but there is hesitation.

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B-x...thkey=CM66o7IJ

Mart

Quote:
Originally Posted by P3Auto View Post
I'm not sure if you have done this but I would check the following:

1. Check fuel pressure at idle and make sure that it rises 1psi for ever 1psi of boost. Drive around with the gauge and look to see if you have any strange pressure drops or changes while cruising and in your rough spot.

2. Use rom raider to log the roughness monitors on #1,#2,#3,#4. Look at the roughness while at idle in real time then give it a little throttle, make note of a cyl showing more roughness then the others. Try cruising and watching this. If you can isolate it to a cyl you may consider swaping that injector then the coil pack. I have run into issues with faulty or leaking injectors as well as coil packs causing your problem.

3. Swap the front O2 sensor again with a known good one. You mentioned when you disconnected the rear sensor your problems stopped. Thats fairly odd. Try disconnecting the front sensor and see what happens. The car usually uses the front sensor to trim the fuel, it responds very fast with short term fuel trims, when the front sensors start to go bad a classic symptom is what you described. You may be able to spot a sudden trim if you log rpm and af correction #1 if there is a sudden swing in fueling this should show it. Try to log as little as possible to keep the definition high in the logs.
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Old 08-09-2010, 09:59 AM   #57
mneste8718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
^^ its not that.

Even if your Advance table is 0, the FBKC and FLKC still work.....knock correction doesnt just pull timing from the advance table.....its just a big equation with a bunch of variables

Total Timing = Base Timing + Advance + FBKC + FLKC + IAT Comp + Coolant Comp + etc

The advance table is there to globally change the timing at high loads via the IAM.
That hasn't been my experience, I was having hesitation from too much base timing in the lower rpms 2500-2800rpms and at those cells the advance is 0. When I logged I saw no knock correction, neither fine correction, or a lowering of the IAM. I then just took a look at the base timing map, saw that the column read something like 36 36 36 43 35 35 and of course realized that the 43 is causing the problem. I smoothed out the column and no more hesitation. Try it for ****s and giggles.
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Old 08-09-2010, 11:42 AM   #58
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Well....you're just talking about jumps in total timing....

All my maps are smooth.....
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Old 08-09-2010, 12:13 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
Well....you're just talking about jumps in total timing....

All my maps are smooth.....
Well you think that perhaps the knock sensor is not sensitive enough in that RPM range?
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Old 08-09-2010, 12:34 PM   #60
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he is seeing the hesitation at 0.3 load....the knock parameters do not even become active until 0.5 load.
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Old 08-09-2010, 12:50 PM   #61
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o ok, that would explain it, so you just need to wing it and lower the timing in those cells, I mean how else are u going to determine the cause?
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:05 PM   #62
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pretty sure i already tried that about 3 months ago....
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:09 PM   #63
mneste8718
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well temperatures change in 3 months
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:18 PM   #64
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so you're saying low load timing needs to change for temperature? not according to subarus mapping....or honda mapping.....

i mean do you go in and change your low load timing every couple months?

ive used the same timing mapping on hundreds of cars and never had an issue....
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:33 PM   #65
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I understand, I'm just trying to troubleshoot cause there isn't that much that could be at fault here. If you get the hesitation all the time, then it doesn't matter what low load timings are currently. Perhaps the timings scale incorrectly with the increase of IATs... maybe you just need to scale that differently (as in lower them). Couldn't hurt to try...
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:41 PM   #66
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i understand what you're saying....but im telling you that it has been tried.....the timing has been increased, decreased, etc etc.
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:53 PM   #67
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gotcha... really odd. Can you adjust when the knock sensor begins to react?
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:58 PM   #68
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yes.....you can change the load and rpm for flkc, fbkc and rough correction (IAM).
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Old 08-09-2010, 02:05 PM   #69
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didn't help? already tried it?
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Old 08-09-2010, 02:07 PM   #70
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are you asking if i tried to lower the activation load of the various knock parameters?

if so, the answer is no.
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Old 08-14-2010, 04:05 PM   #71
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Swap your BPV with someone and see what happens. Part throttle can cause the valve to open and close or even cycle strangly. This in turn plays havoc on the ECU. I have run into this problem (exactly as described) with badly adjusted blow off valves and by pass valves..

Stop messing with the tune. If it does it stock then you have a mechanical (physical) problem. Although you may find some magical way to tune it out nothing you have added should make this a problem.
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Old 08-14-2010, 09:30 PM   #72
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I am running the stock BPV.

Is there another way to test it out without swapping one? I dont have access to another one....

thanx

Mart

Quote:
Originally Posted by P3Auto View Post
Swap your BPV with someone and see what happens. Part throttle can cause the valve to open and close or even cycle strangly. This in turn plays havoc on the ECU. I have run into this problem (exactly as described) with badly adjusted blow off valves and by pass valves..

Stop messing with the tune. If it does it stock then you have a mechanical (physical) problem. Although you may find some magical way to tune it out nothing you have added should make this a problem.
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Old 08-16-2010, 01:45 PM   #73
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Plenty of them are kicking around the forums. Try to get and STI BPV, I have tested them to hold well over 22psi.

In terms of testing what you have I'm not to sure if there is an easy way. It doesn't sound like it is a holding pressure issue. IF the bpv is the problem it make have a slight leak or could even be too stiff, maybe seizing up.

Check all the vac lines leading up to the BPV for issues, make sure you are using the larger vac line from the manifold for the BPV signal. Make sure there are no leaks on the recirc hose from the BPV to the intake.
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Old 08-16-2010, 01:53 PM   #74
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His AF learnings and MAF tab data collections have shown no sign of leaks.
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Old 08-16-2010, 02:02 PM   #75
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Yep AF learnings are within +/- 2% all across the board since a little while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
His AF learnings and MAF tab data collections have shown no sign of leaks.
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